Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[Oracle]

Actually, the army gives its requirements to the DRDO and DRDO promises the moon and gives then a rock dug up from the back yard.
As case in point is the INSAS - Indian Small Arms Systems. They promised us something like the Aug Styr, and look what they gave us - an FN FNC look alike, without the main ability that was promised - a common body with interchangeable barrels for rifle, LMG and carbine.

DRDO is an uninvited guest at my Engineering college. Their recruitment policy is flawed, they pay peanuts and hire monkeys. You guys should consider yourselves lucky to get anything out of DRDO at all.

[Oracle]

original version was better but the russians violated the agreement and said they cannot discriminate between India & China any longer.

25:50 (here) by Pramit Chaudhuri, Hindustan times.

Sergei ivanov (sukhoi chairman) on public record saying that. Not found a source for it.

The MoD haven't learnt their lesson it seems, still going for the PAKFA. Kickbacks must be huge. What about the Super Sukhois? Chinese MKK are getting upgraded too?

Huh ?

jlvfr probably was waiting for the outcome of the MMRCA for years. :)

[Double Edge]

The MoD haven't learnt their lesson it seems, still going for the PAKFA. Kickbacks must be huge. What about the Super Sukhois? Chinese MKK are getting upgraded too?

A G2G means no chance of corruption or so people say in that discussion.

jlvfr probably was waiting for the outcome of the MMRCA for years. :)

The days of bureaucrats doing the strategic thinking is hopefully coming to an end.

[Oracle]

A G2G means no chance of corruption or so people say in that discussion.

Do you really believe that? Maybe in the case of US, but Russia.

The days of bureaucrats doing the strategic thinking is hopefully coming to an end.

I only hope so, defense acquisitions should be super fast tracked. But then who'd do the strategic thinking? Politicians know nothing about tanks or jets.

[Blademaster]

I only hope so, defense acquisitions should be super fast tracked. But then who'd do the strategic thinking? Politicians know nothing about tanks or jets.

Well I know one thing for sure and it sure ain't you!!

There's more to it than buying off the shelf jets or just making jets that has all the gizmos and whizbang. For starters, you have to develop the necessary knowledge base and infrastructure that goes with it. You have to determine the budget allocations for it and how to sustain it for how long period of a time.

In this case, India should have dropped the Rafales and just go for more MKIs and go full speed in the LCA program. Even though the LCA program may not fit exactly the needs of IAF, it is good enough for the moment and allows India to build more on the knowledge base and invest in it to grow it and make it bigger and compete with the outside world.

India should drop out of the PAKFA program and start its own path. If declining squadrons are the problem, then just build more MKIs and LCAs and save the money for indigenous programs. The MKIs and LCAs are good enough against the Pakistanis and Chinese. India is not going into any wars anytime soon, not even for terrorist attacks (no matter how much I want to) because the politicians and leaders have determined that economic growth is way far more important that taking out terrorist camps. And India is working on cruise missiles to allow India to attack Pakistan terrorist camps without needing the Rafale's hardware or VLO capabilities.

India needs to go full speed on the AMCA program. That will provide India more dividends than PAK-FA could ever give such as bang for buck and strategic gains.

[bolo121]

Well I know one thing for sure and it sure ain't you!!

There's more to it than buying off the shelf jets or just making jets that has all the gizmos and whizbang. For starters, you have to develop the necessary knowledge base and infrastructure that goes with it. You have to determine the budget allocations for it and how to sustain it for how long period of a time.

In this case, India should have dropped the Rafales and just go for more MKIs and go full speed in the LCA program. Even though the LCA program may not fit exactly the needs of IAF, it is good enough for the moment and allows India to build more on the knowledge base and invest in it to grow it and make it bigger and compete with the outside world.

India should drop out of the PAKFA program and start its own path. If declining squadrons are the problem, then just build more MKIs and LCAs and save the money for indigenous programs. The MKIs and LCAs are good enough against the Pakistanis and Chinese. India is not going into any wars anytime soon, not even for terrorist attacks (no matter how much I want to) because the politicians and leaders have determined that economic growth is way far more important that taking out terrorist camps. And India is working on cruise missiles to allow India to attack Pakistan terrorist camps without needing the Rafale's hardware or VLO capabilities.

India needs to go full speed on the AMCA program. That will provide India more dividends than PAK-FA could ever give such as bang for buck and strategic gains.

Oh Blade............
This is all just mental masturbation.
This is India with great DRDO and wonderful HAL in charge. All benevolently overseen by the MoD.
They could not even build LCA for so many decades and now you want them to build a 5th gen fighter?
All they will do is burn up 200,000 crores instead of the 55,000 the LCA has cost us so far with nothing operational.

In the end the pols will buy some fighter from aboad and have a huge scam along with it looting 500,000 crore.
We poor fools will continue to pay VAT, service tax, 'education' cess, income tax, excise duty, and a thousand other wounds while crying and crying and crying.

[DarthSiddius]

They could not even build LCA for so many decades and now you want them to build a 5th gen fighter?

I often feel people dont give the LCA program it's due. It is an attempt at jump-starting our own military aviation industry. Lots of things to learn, lots of hurdles, sanctions and politics to overcome. Given it's specs and the role the plane is designed for, it's a decent platform.

[bolo121]

I often feel people dont give the LCA program it's due. It is an attempt at jump-starting our own military aviation industry. Lots of things to learn, lots of hurdles, sanctions and politics to overcome. Given it's specs and the role the plane is designed for, it's a decent platform.

what platform..........started in 1989 and not a single operational squadron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its a typical drdo disaster.

Every time i struggle to pay my bills and file my returns for the year, my rage just builds and builds.
We have to grub and struggle and work our arses off just to hold our heads above water and these evil scumbags just loot and loot.
If i could torture them for a thousand years it wouldn't be enough.

[jlvfr]

jlvfr probably was waiting for the outcome of the MMRCA for years. :)

It was related to that bit about the IAF generals being happy with the decision.

[DarthSiddius]

what platform..........started in 1989 and not a single operational squadron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its a typical drdo disaster.

Every time i struggle to pay my bills and file my returns for the year, my rage just builds and builds.
We have to grub and struggle and work our arses off just to hold our heads above water and these evil scumbags just loot and loot.
If i could torture them for a thousand years it wouldn't be enough.

I'm talking about a what-is and not a what-if. Yes they took too long some of it due to ineptitude but a lot because of external factors as well. You play the hand you're dealt.

[bolo121]

I'm talking about a what-is and not a what-if. Yes they took too long some of it due to ineptitude but a lot because of external factors as well. You play the hand you're dealt.

thats just a cop out. There was no hand you dealt.
Our corrupt govt scumbags betrayed us and got away with it

[Blademaster]

Oh Blade............
This is all just mental masturbation.

Then it is mental masturbation to think that India could be a great power when it has to buy weapons from abroad in order to exercise her powers.

This is India with great DRDO and wonderful HAL in charge. All benevolently overseen by the MoD.
They could not even build LCA for so many decades and now you want them to build a 5th gen fighter?
All they will do is burn up 200,000 crores instead of the 55,000 the LCA has cost us so far with nothing operational.

In the end the pols will buy some fighter from aboad and have a huge scam along with it looting 500,000 crore.
We poor fools will continue to pay VAT, service tax, 'education' cess, income tax, excise duty, and a thousand other wounds while crying and crying and crying.

Then you can forget any aspirations of being a great power if you cannot develop the weapons or weapon platforms within your country. So what if the LCA program fails? Say never die and keep on trying. Failure is the path to success. Do you know how many programs that the US went through in its AF nascent years? More than a hundred and most of them failed. Through each program, they were able to build on its failure and expand the knowledge base and increase their proficiency. Same thing with the Soviets and even the French. You cannot just quit and give up. You gotta keep trying.

[Blademaster]

thats just a cop out. There was no hand you dealt.
Our corrupt govt scumbags betrayed us and got away with it

Who are you referring to?

[bolo121]

Then it is mental masturbation to think that India could be a great power when it has to buy weapons from abroad in order to exercise her powers.



Then you can forget any aspirations of being a great power if you cannot develop the weapons or weapon platforms within your country. So what if the LCA program fails? Say never die and keep on trying. Failure is the path to success. Do you know how many programs that the US went through in its AF nascent years? More than a hundred and most of them failed. Through each program, they were able to build on its failure and expand the knowledge base and increase their proficiency. Same thing with the Soviets and even the French. You cannot just quit and give up. You gotta keep trying.

Arre Hitesh thats what I was saying, its mental masturbation.
We cannot even make a decent battle rifle let alone a fighter!.

what the fuck do i care about great power bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will it give good schools for my kid?
Will it give proper healthcare for my family?
No!!!
It is just for the rulers to boast and enjoy and ride in limousines and see fancy hardware in republic day parades.

First at least deliver 24/7 water and power.
Make roads without at least big potholes that last beyond monsoon!!!!
Every day when i choke in pollution and cough my lungs out and buy more asthalin i curse the govt.

DRDO and HAL are super corrupt scum.

[bolo121]

Who are you referring to?

I was referring to the fact that LCA was disaster because no matter the govt in center HAL, DRDO and MoD could loot and enjoy.