Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[Oracle]

I guess the indian powers-that-be are really fed up with the whole mess these in-house-built programs have been. That, or having your backs to the wall (in terms of equipment available) finally woke them up...

Probably. My guess is just as good as yours. Urgency. Having said that, DRDO is not that incapable, they did come up with the ballistic missiles we have in our inventory, Akash SAM and stuff. :)

[jlvfr]

Another point against the F-35: I'm pretty sure US/Italy prodution priorities are (almost) set in stone, considering the delays in the program. Which would mean that either India would have to wait who knows how many years, or start local assembly... and "here we go again"...

[Doktor]

Hey! Where did I say money for Rafale should be used to buy F - 35s?

Well, they are just lying around unused, so...

[Oracle]

Another point against the F-35: I'm pretty sure US/Italy prodution priorities are (almost) set in stone, considering the delays in the program. Which would mean that either India would have to wait who knows how many years, or start local assembly... and "here we go again"...

Frankly, when it comes to deadlines and deliveries I trust the Americans over the Russians. Oh! And the technology too.

Well, they are just lying around unused, so...

What is lying around? Money or F - 35s/ Rafales?

[jlvfr]

Frankly, when it comes to deadlines and deliveries I trust the Americans over the Russians. Oh! And the technology too.

I wasn't thinking of (further) delays. Right now, afaik, every F-35 being built or on the construction squedule allready as an onwer: USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, Israel, etc. I doubt they could add more for the IAF, at least for delivery soon(ish), without displacing one of these orders. Which no one will allow, I think. So, what's left?

[Oracle]

I wasn't thinking of (further) delays. Right now, afaik, every F-35 being built or on the construction squedule allready as an onwer: USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, Israel, etc. I doubt they could add more for the IAF, at least for delivery soon(ish), without displacing one of these orders. Which no one will allow, I think. So, what's left?

Oh! Okay.

But dude, US is all about capitalism. More orders mean, more billions, more employment, more tax for US gov. Trust me, these guys can manage. They've been managing the whole world as the world's police for a long time. Someone is gonna spank me now I guess.

[jlvfr]

Oh! Okay.

But dude, US is all about capitalism. More orders mean, more billions, more employment, more tax for US gov. Trust me, these guys can manage. They've been managing the whole world as the world's police for a long time.

I have no doubt hey can manage. The problem is the deadline. India isn't going to wait 5-10 years to have their 1st few F-35s (or squadron of). The only way would be to cancel or delay current contracts. Tell that to the USAF or RAF, who've been waiting for years. The alternative would be to build a new construction line in the US or India... which would be hugely expensive and take years.

[Oracle]

I have no doubt hey can manage. The problem is the deadline. India isn't going to wait 5-10 years to have their 1st few F-35s (or squadron of). The only way would be to cancel or delay current contracts. Tell that to the USAF or RAF, who've been waiting for years. The alternative would be to build a new construction line in the US or India... which would be hugely expensive and take years.

That is true. What about the Indian PM Mr. Modi's 'Make in India' initiative? LM could open an assembly line in India, get tax breaks from the government, and export the product to other countries in line. You think that'll work?

[jlvfr]

That is true. What about the Indian PM Mr. Modi's 'Make in India' initiative? LM could open an assembly line in India, get tax breaks from the government, and export the product to other countries in line. You think that'll work?

Like the one for the Rafale, that started this whole mess?...

[Oracle]

Like the one for the Rafale, that started this whole mess?...

OK dude. So what do you want? Tell me and i'll tag along. Are you French by any chance?

[TopHatter]

If I was in charge of the Indian procurement process, I'd go with Rafale first, then Typhoon and then JSF dead last.

The article that Tronic posted back in 2012 makes a great case for Rafale overall.

[SteveDaPirate]

I have no doubt hey can manage. The problem is the deadline. India isn't going to wait 5-10 years to have their 1st few F-35s (or squadron of). The only way would be to cancel or delay current contracts. Tell that to the USAF or RAF, who've been waiting for years. The alternative would be to build a new construction line in the US or India... which would be hugely expensive and take years.

They would probably get a handful to India to start training with relatively quickly, but I agree that the bulk of any large order would undoubtedly be 5+ years away.

That is true. What about the Indian PM Mr. Modi's 'Make in India' initiative? LM could open an assembly line in India, get tax breaks from the government, and export the product to other countries in line. You think that'll work?

An assembly line might fly if the order is sufficiently large, but I don't see the US agreeing to a tech transfer the way India wanted from the Rafale deal.

I suspect that political and logistical issues with India buying American aircraft would undoubtedly rear their head as well.

[SteveDaPirate]

If I was in charge of the Indian procurement process, I'd go with Rafale first, then Typhoon and then JSF dead last.

The article that Tronic posted back in 2012 makes a great case for Rafale overall.

I'm actually suprised India didn't just order more Su-30MKI rather than Rafale and PAK FA.

[jlvfr]

OK dude. So what do you want? Tell me and i'll tag along. Are you French by any chance?

Check my flag?...

I think India is stuck. The whole program is now so late, and the AF's needs are so desperate, that outright buy is the only choice to have a new large fighter in a reasonable frame of time. And the Rafale seems to the it.

If I was in charge of the Indian procurement process, I'd go with Rafale first, then Typhoon and then JSF dead last.
The article that Tronic posted back in 2012 makes a great case for Rafale overall.

Why "Rafale then Typhoon"? That would mess up procurement even more, and increase costs and problems associated with maintenance, traning and overall support for two diferent types, rather than one... as for the JSF... maybe in the far future. But this purchase buys India time. I foresee a Tejas MkIII with a heavy(ish) stealth component... as for the Typhoon vs Rafale issue: that article pins it well, tbh.

[TopHatter]

I'm actually suprised India didn't just order more Su-30MKI rather than Rafale and PAK FA.

I don't think India is particularly happy with the Russian arms industry at the moment.

Why "Rafale then Typhoon"?

That was order of preference, not that they should all be bought.