What is up with the F-35? Part II

[TopHatter]

There you go. And despite knowing better my first thought (what with my career and all) had been corruption/conspiracy. I should have known better. Humans being what they are I learned long ago that whenever something goes wrong and you a choice between malice and a cock up the latter wins 999 times out of a thousand.

Hanlon's Razor

[tbm3fan]

It's a case study in how not to run a program. Basically it was allowing requirements to creep in way late in developmental cycles so system engineering work was incomplete. The hardest thing to get to work is integrating various software systems and hardware platform. If current aircraft are flying computers the F-35 variants are that on steroids. Improper systems engineering will cause you to fail integration 13 out of 10 times. So folks were allowed to retire or shunted elsewhere and fresh blood were brought in. All the lessons learned we covered in my Advanced Acquisition Logistician Courses I took at the Defense Acquition University from 2016-2018. Every time when the slides came up in those classes all the folks from the F-35 office just cringed and would slink down in their seats.

I know more and learned some more over drinks with folks...but since we all had to sign Non attribution and nondisclosure agreements in the program I can't say more. And the great thing about those agreements it allowed all of us to openly discuss things from our experiences would be used as intended...a cross pollination of talent across DOD acquisition programs.

Man have I got a job for you. A major, major software company that basically has no internal controls in that it doesn't even know how many employees it has in all the different departments to start with. Even whether they make a profit or not isn't in the top guy's ( an asshole) concern. Only downside is that the last two second in command left after 4 years and now 11 months because they couldn't handle it or effect change.

[Gun Grape]

It's a case study in how not to run a program. Basically it was allowing requirements to creep in way late in developmental cycles so system engineering work was incomplete. The hardest thing to get to work is integrating various software systems and hardware platform. If current aircraft are flying computers the F-35 variants are that on steroids. Improper systems engineering will cause you to fail integration 13 out of 10 times. So folks were allowed to retire or shunted elsewhere and fresh blood were brought in. All the lessons learned we covered in my Advanced Acquisition Logistician Courses I took at the Defense Acquition University from 2016-2018. Every time when the slides came up in those classes all the folks from the F-35 office just cringed and would slink down in their seats.

I know more and learned some more over drinks with folks...but since we all had to sign Non attribution and nondisclosure agreements in the program I can't say more. And the great thing about those agreements it allowed all of us to openly discuss things from our experiences would be used as intended...a cross pollination of talent across DOD acquisition programs.

Reminds me of a briefing I attended around 1999-2000.
HQMC had a new software suite that was going to make our jobs easier. Instant access to records at HQMC MCOs, TMs and all reports would also be sent via this program. Cut paperwork and reports would be received instantly. "Within 90 days, when we implement this upgrade we will all be talking on the same map sheet. Wonderful" And it only requires a computer with a first generation Pentium processor."

That's when one of the Regimental Commanders stood up and informed the Major from HQMC, that The Col had a 486 computer in his office, the Bn and Company level computers throughout 2D Mar Div were running on a mix of 386 and 486 systems running Windows 3.1

You could have knocked the Major over with a feather

[tbm3fan]

Reminds me of a briefing I attended around 1999-2000.
HQMC had a new software suite that was going to make our jobs easier. Instant access to records at HQMC MCOs, TMs and all reports would also be sent via this program. Cut paperwork and reports would be received instantly. "Within 90 days, when we implement this upgrade we will all be talking on the same map sheet. Wonderful" And it only requires a computer with a first generation Pentium processor."

That's when one of the Regimental Commanders stood up and informed the Major from HQMC, that The Col had a 486 computer in his office, the Bn and Company level computers throughout 2D Mar Div were running on a mix of 386 and 486 systems running Windows 3.1

You could have knocked the Major over with a feather

LOL, I still run a computer using Win 98 but it does have an early pentium and specifically for one task only.

[Monash]

Is this a deliberate cyber warfare strategy? The DoD is' unhackable' because it operates using what amounts to a chip museum!

[Gun Grape]

Is this a deliberate cyber warfare strategy? The DoD is' unhackable' because it operates using what amounts to chip museum!

You tell me.

Up until 2019 ICBM command and control system was still using IBM Series/1 computers and 8inch floppy disk

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...ppy-disks.html

[tbm3fan]

You tell me.

Up until 2019 ICBM command and control system was still using IBM Series/1 computers and 8inch floppy disk

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...ppy-disks.html

I can see it now "Would you like to play a nice game of chess or, in this case, checkers?"

[TopHatter]

I can see it now "Would you like to play a nice game of chess or, in this case, checkers?"

We have plenty of options:

FALKEN'S MAZE
BLACK JACK
GIN RUMMY
HEARTS
BRIDGE
CHECKERS
CHESS
POKER
FIGHTER COMBAT
GUERILLA ENGAGEMENT
DESERT WARFARE
AIR-TO-GROUND ACTIONS
THEATERWIDE TACTICAL WARFARE
THEATERWIDE BIOTOXIC AND CHEMICAL WARFARE
GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR WAR

[Monash]

I'm detecting a theme.

[tbm3fan]

I'm detecting a theme.

Stop worrying and just love the bomb...

[jlvfr]

You tell me.

Up until 2019 ICBM command and control system was still using IBM Series/1 computers and 8inch floppy disk

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/u...ppy-disks.html

It's extremely dificult to replace IT systems on large scale applications, specially in critical roles, and even more specially if whatever is using said systems cannot stop operating, or can do so only for very short periods. Same happens in civilian life. There are large banks and insurance companies that, while the front end migh use the latest windows or IOS, the backend may be running languages and database models that are decades old. Why? Because replacing them would be a nightmare. So we go back to the old "if it works don't fix it"... my own company has at least 2 softwares that are 20+ years old and we have no plans to replace them.

[tbm3fan]

It's extremely dificult to replace IT systems on large scale applications, specially in critical roles, and even more specially if whatever is using said systems cannot stop operating, or can do so only for very short periods. Same happens in civilian life. There are large banks and insurance companies that, while the front end migh use the latest windows or IOS, the backend may be running languages and database models that are decades old. Why? Because replacing them would be a nightmare. So we go back to the old "if it works don't fix it"... my own company has at least 2 softwares that are 20+ years old and we have no plans to replace them.

In my office I still use a DOS program to track activity and it does it fine. The company that created it later moved onto a windows application and contacted everyone who was using their DOS program. They could translate your info over onto the new program in 15 minutes. They wanted $15,000 to do that and $500 yearly fee now over my paid inexpensive program. I told the VP "drop dead."

[jlvfr]

DOS ftw

[Albany Rifles]

It's extremely dificult to replace IT systems on large scale applications, specially in critical roles, and even more specially if whatever is using said systems cannot stop operating, or can do so only for very short periods. Same happens in civilian life. There are large banks and insurance companies that, while the front end migh use the latest windows or IOS, the backend may be running languages and database models that are decades old. Why? Because replacing them would be a nightmare. So we go back to the old "if it works don't fix it"... my own company has at least 2 softwares that are 20+ years old and we have no plans to replace them.

Dude, I spent 7 years shutting down multiple brigades at a time for anything supply or maintenance related for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. We were replacing stovepipe supply, maintenance, financial and property accountability SW systems with a single program. Hundred of soldiers and civilians trained in 2 weeks. All date migrated into the new system. It can be done but needs a LOT of expertise & planning.

[Albany Rifles]

Another hurdle to the F=35 has been overcome.


https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023...rs-deliveries/

Fix coming for F-35 engine problem that froze fighters’ deliveries

By Stephen Losey
Feb 10, 09:43 AM



WASHINGTON — The military and manufacturers of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter have found a potential solution to the engine troubles that halted deliveries of the jet for nearly two months, a key lawmaker told Defense News on Thursday.

The solution could be available later this month, paving the way for deliveries of the F-35 to resume, said Rep. Rob Wittman, R-Va., who chairs the House Armed Services Committee’s tactical air and land forces panel.

During an interview in his Capitol Hill office, Wittman said engineers identified vibration issues in the fighters’ Pratt & Whitney-made F135 engines as the source of the problem that froze F-35 acceptance flights and subsequent deliveries.

“The good news is the Air Force and the contractor, Lockheed [Martin, which builds the F-35], did their due diligence to discover what the issues were there, and to make sure they gathered the data to make sure they put in place a proper solution,” said Wittman, noting he was briefed on the issue Wednesday by F-35 Program Executive Officer Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt. “I’m very confident that they have properly identified the problem, and that their solution set that they’re going to put in place will solve the problem. They’re doing the adequate testing to make sure that their solution does indeed avoid this particular situation in the future.”

Wittman’s office later clarified that he intended to refer to engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney as the contractor that did its due diligence.

Wittman said the solution “should be in hand any day now.” Asked if that meant later in February, he replied: “That’s my understanding.”

Pratt & Whitney confirmed in a statement to Defense News the development of a near-term solution meant to allow the company to resume delivering F135 engines to F-35 manufacturer Lockheed Martin by the end of this month.

“After thorough review, we can confidently say there were no quality issues with the [engine] fuel tube that fractured,” said Jen Latka, vice president of the F135 program for Pratt & Whitney. “We are dealing with a rare systems phenomenon involving harmonic resonance.

“We have developed a near-term remedy that allows the fleet to fly safely, and we expect that F135 engine deliveries could resume before the end of the month.”

When asked for comment, the F-35 Joint Program Office referred Defense News to Pratt & Whitney’s statement. Lockheed Martin referred questions to the JPO. It is unclear when acceptance flights will resume. Pratt & Whitney did not provide details of the developed fix.

Lockheed halted acceptance flights of new fighters after a Dec. 15 mishap involving a newly built F-35B in Fort Worth, Texas. Acceptance flights are required to ensure new fighters are working as intended before they are delivered to the government. The pause in those flights had the effect of also stopping deliveries.

Lockheed has since continued to build and store new F-35s, primarily at its main factory in Fort Worth.

Video of the Dec. 15 mishap showed the fighter hovering near the ground before descending, bouncing, tipping forward until its nose and a wing touched the ground, and starting to spin around. Its Air Force pilot, who was performing a quality check for the Defense Contract Management Agency, then safely ejected.

A source familiar with the program told Defense News in December that initial assessments showed a high-pressure fuel tube in the engine of the F-35B had failed. This prompted the JPO to update its safety risk assessments.

And on Dec. 27, delivery of new F135 engines was paused after what the JPO called a “mutual agreement” involving itself, DCMA, and Pratt & Whitney, while the investigation into the mishap continued.

Wittman confirmed “there was a problem with the high-pressure fuel-delivery system.”

Wittman said the solution will involve a “combination of things” to dampen vibrations in the engine, which he called “a very confined ... dynamic environment,” though he was unable to detail the solution.

But figuring out the solution is only the first step, Wittman noted. The contractors involved have to set up a manufacturing process for the fixes, and then go back and install them in the F-35s that Lockheed has built since mid-December. The contractor now has 17 F-35s completed and awaiting acceptance flights.

This solution also needs to be built into the production line for new fighters, Wittman said.

“I believe that the Air Force and Lockheed have the solution set in hand, which is the key,” he explained. “Then … how do they incorporate that into existing aircraft and aircraft that are on the assembly line now?”

Time is running out to fix the problem and keep F-35 production going, Wittman added. Lockheed has continued building new F-35s using the stock of F135 engines it already had on hand before the December halt in engine deliveries.

Lockheed still has some engines in reserve to continue building fighters, Wittman said, but not many.

“It’s my understanding … that the number of those engines now is very small,” he told Defense News. “So the longer this goes on, you potentially could be at a point where the engine supply is depleted, and then it could impact production.”

Wittman said all the parties involved in the F-35 are considering factors, such as remaining engine availability, as they deal with the problem.