US to allow women into combat arms roles.

[Mushroom]

Well women have been in fnding themselves in ground combat roles since 2001 and now they have finally decided to stop pretending it wasn't happening.

[Officer of Engineers]

All right. To the UNINFORMED, this is not about women facing the rigors of combat. Women have seen combat since caveman days. You want to see a woman fight? Threaten her baby.

This is about the COMBAT ARMS! These are the construction workers of war. Just as there are extremely few women construction workers, so too are very few women who qualifies for the combat arms. It's about marching all day with a few hours sleep, carrying 75lb packs, for three days straight, then fight another 3 days, all the while running back and forth carrying hundreds of pounds of ammunition or explosives, and then to be able to carry your buddy and his pack with your pack on out of harm's way.

If you are going to comment, at least educate yourself to the requirements of the combat arms.

[Minskaya]

Just as no battle plan survives first contact, no lesson survives first assessment.

Reminds me of something a US Marine GSgt shared with me. He called it his doctrine of Semper Gumby - Always have back-up plans on the short list and be elastic enough to hatch a new one on the fly.

[Gun Grape]

I do not doubt the account given by Mr. Smith, but his discription of the advance and convoy movement in Iraq 2003, just tore up everything I had learn't about cobney management and advance in battle.

Mr Smiths account stretches the truth a bit. The AAV7 was designed to hold 25 combat equipped Marines. That's the standard we use for load planning. Packs and all. You may have to ride with your pack on your lap, while doing an amphib, , till you get ashore,but there is no "Gotta sit on other Marines laps."

Not sure why they would stay buttoned up for 48 hours either. The fuel tank isn't big enough to drive that long.

And crapping in a MRE bag in front of someones face is poor leadership. Notice the hatch behind the drivers hatch. Its a place to stand for the troop commander so he can get his bearings prior to the back ramp dropping. A ammo crate with a trash bag in that space was the way to go.

[Gun Grape]

Reminds me of something a US Marine GSgt shared with me. He called it his doctrine of Semper Gumby - Always have back-up plans on the short list and be elastic enough to hatch a new one on the fly.

Semper Gumby- Always Flexible

[Double Edge]

All right. To the UNINFORMED, this is not about women facing the rigors of combat. Women have seen combat since caveman days. You want to see a woman fight? Threaten her baby.

They fight dirtier than men

No such thing as a fair fight with them.

They make better terrorists.

This is about the COMBAT ARMS! These are the construction workers of war. Just as there are extremely few women construction workers, so too are very few women who qualifies for the combat arms.

Maybe in the west, but women labourers are common on an indian construction site. Mostly the wives of other labourers. Even younger at times, brought in from the countryside. Hauling bricks & cement. They even have special helmets made to carry stuff on their heads. The moral imperative of putting food on the table trumps everything else.

Will they carry as much as men, probably not but it shows in what they get paid.

It's about marching all day with a few hours sleep, carrying 75lb packs, for three days straight, then fight another 3 days, all the while running back and forth carrying hundreds of pounds of ammunition or explosives, and then to be able to carry your buddy and his pack with your pack on out of harm's way.

If you are going to comment, at least educate yourself to the requirements of the combat arms.

Right, as i thought, the pros are not convinced. And if that's the case its not going to work.

Civvie life is one thing, life & death situations another.

[Officer of Engineers]

There are a few women who passed the combat arms course and being part of the regiments. Some even saw combat. However, all quickly sought to leave the Field once they've proven themselves. Like men, their knees and ankles don't last forever. However, their pain came earlier and they're smart enough, unlike men, to listen to their bodies.

[Double Edge]

An interesting 2009 study (PDF format) by the UK MoD regarding women in combat.

Although I am dubious, nations that have women in combat roles in Afghanistan have reported no strains on combat effectivness and/or unit cohesion. I personally think that infantry standards should be uniform regardless of gender. IMHO, combat units should be segregated by gender such as the IDF Caracal Battalion. On a personal note, anyone who can successfully complete the IDF paratrooper school final exercise can survive just about anything in the military.

bingo! so the israelis have got it working with segregation.

[Mushroom]

What allowing women into combat really means

Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 10:00 am

“Uncle Sam Wants You” has a whole new meaning.

On Thursday, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta announced the decision to remove the ban on women being able to fight in hundreds of combat situations, a decision that is one small step for women and one large step for possible future repercussions through government regulations that will be out of women’s control.

Equality between the sexes is something I am a big proponent of, but we need to step back and look at what this could mean for college-aged women and men’s futures. Women only make up a small minority of the military; however, they make up a large part of society.

Taking this into consideration, the more positions that open up in the military, the more women could be utilized – unless the reason for the minority of women is because of women’s lack of desire to participate.

Before Panetta’s change takes effect, 17 countries have allowed women to serve in front-line combat, according to the Washington Post. Some of these countries simultaneously require women to register for their draft, such as Norway, which has had women in combat and drafted since 1985.

According to the U.S. Selective Service System website on Jan. 24, “Even though the Secretary of Defense has decided to allow women in combat jobs, the law has not been changed to include this. Consequently, only men are currently required to register by law with Selective Service during ages 18 thru 25. Women still do not register.”

The question that has been left unanswered is what will be the case when the law actually takes effect?

According to Fox News, Panetta himself does not even know this answer.

“That’s not our operation,” Panetta said during a press conference at the Pentagon. “I don’t know who the hell controls Selective Services, if you want to know the truth ... Whoever does, they’re going to have to exercise some judgment based on what we just did.”

This response does not give a settling feeling for young women who are not wanting to be drafted.

Women being in combat is not the issue. Before Panetta’s decision, women were in numerous combat-related roles and handled them just as well as any man could. Also, this law change would still require any man or woman who would fight in front-line combat to pass a physical capability test.

The issue is the decisions that will have to take place in the aftermath of Panetta’s decision. Will women have to register for the draft? Will the services make the decision to still keep some positions of combat closed to women? Will the physical test standards be lowered to allow more women to fight in combat, as well as men who may have not passed before? If this occurs, will less able-bodied individuals make up America’s frontline?

Our generation needs to understand that the fight for equality can create side effects that some people may not want. Before we glorify the idea of women being treated equal to men in the military, we need to be aware of the possible repercussions.

What allowing women into combat really means - Purdue Exponent: Opinions: women, combat, military,

[Doktor]

bingo! so the israelis have got it working with segregation.

Caracal Battalion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Caracal Battalion is an infantry combat battalion of the Israel Defense Forces, composed of both male and female soldiers, of both Jewish and Arab descent.[1] It is named after the Caracal, a small cat whose sexes appear the same.[2] As of 2009, approximately 70% of the battalion was female.[1][3]

70% is segregation?

Women in the Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A combat option for women is the Caracal Battalion, which is a highly operational force that is made up of 70 percent female soldiers.[3] The unit undergoes training like any combat infantry.[4] The IDF commando K9 unit, Oketz, also drafts females as elite combat soldiers.[6]

Oketz is also segregated unit?

[lemontree]

The reality is how far you can deviate before you become combat ineffective.

Sir, we train as we fight, and the British taught us never to miss our evening tea, the men get cranky.

[lemontree]

Not sure why they would stay buttoned up for 48 hours either. The fuel tank isn't big enough to drive that long.

Exactly, besides in deserts you cannot keep driving non-stop, the engines have to be cooled down. That's when the columns stop and adm activities are attended to before advance, or the column with end up with siezed engines especially when armd vehs are in the picture.

And crapping in a MRE bag in front of someones face is poor leadership.

Agree

[dave lukins]

Sir, we train as we fight, and the British taught us never to miss our evening tea, the men get cranky.

If the battle has not been won by Evening Tea then a small break for refreshment is guaranteed to reinvigorate the men and boost moral. Now then, where's the Gentlemen's Relish?

[DPrime]

All right. To the UNINFORMED, this is not about women facing the rigors of combat. Women have seen combat since caveman days. You want to see a woman fight? Threaten her baby.

This is about the COMBAT ARMS! These are the construction workers of war. Just as there are extremely few women construction workers, so too are very few women who qualifies for the combat arms. It's about marching all day with a few hours sleep, carrying 75lb packs, for three days straight, then fight another 3 days, all the while running back and forth carrying hundreds of pounds of ammunition or explosives, and then to be able to carry your buddy and his pack with your pack on out of harm's way.

If you are going to comment, at least educate yourself to the requirements of the combat arms.

You should write an editorial piece, sir. A lot of civilians don't realize this...

Heck, the amount of people I've spoken to that think a contemporary infantry soldier doesn't need to WALK long distances (because of helicopters and what not) is astounding...

[DPrime]

Who's the new guy? Bit of a douche... ;)