US to allow women into combat arms roles.

[Doktor]

Ergonomy can help, but can't solve the problem. Especially keeping in mind that mil-grade whatever has to last and to be reliable.

You can't just drop the weight of a tank, without decreasing effectiveness. If it was possible, it would have been done. Women or not.

[Dreadnought]

Maybe the weapons were designed with men in mind. From now on, we have to design weapons with women in mind. We just have to incorporate ergonomic engineering and design into weapons design.

I don't see a problem with women serving in navy and airforces and army roles nowadays because the physical requirement just as ben described can be overcomed by designing new weapons that women can use.

Atleast two of my Aunts were in the military during WWII as "Waves" and other.

Women In Military Service For America Memorial

Examples....

By the end of the war, there were few noncombatant jobs in which women did not serve, including positions that hadn't even existed when the war began—positions brought about by scientific and technological advances to aid the war effort. They were in every service branch and were assigned to every combat theater. Nurses and WACs served overseas throughout the war. WAVES, SPARs, and Women Marines were restricted from overseas assignments until near the end of the war when they were sent to the territories of Hawaii and Alaska—then considered overseas duty because they were not yet states.

Women earned Purple Hearts, Bronze Stars and Legions of Merit. Some were held as prisoners of war and some died in the service of their country.

Women's participation in the US Armed Forces during World War II was a major turning point in the relationship of women to the military. The initial response to the idea of enlisting women met enormous resistance. As the war escalated and the national pool of qualified male draftees dwindled, it became clear that for every woman recruited, one less man had to be drafted. Women volunteers came to be viewed not just as a source of women's skills, but as a valuable source of high-quality personnel to meet overall manpower requirements for the massive military buildup.

Toward the end of the war, a scarcity developed in a highly traditional and essential woman's skill, nursing. When the Army Surgeon General announced that not enough nurses were volunteering for military service, President Roosevelt requested a nurse draft bill in his 1945 State of the Union address. A bill quickly passed in the House of Representatives, but stalled in the Senate.

When Germany surrendered in May 1945, the need for a nurse draft evaporated and the bill was set aside.

Commanders who had once stated that they would accept women “over my dead body” soon welcomed them and asked for more. GEN Eisenhower told Congress after the war, that when the formation of women's units was first proposed, “I was violently against it.” Then he added, “Every phase of the record they compiled during the war convinced me of the error of my first reaction.” Eisenhower went on to fight for a permanent place for women in the US Armed Forces.

After the war, Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz told Congress that when the formation of the WAVES was first contemplated, "I was one of the doubters in the early days ... and I was definitely reluctant to see this women's program started. However after it [the WAVES] started and after I saw it work, I became a convert."

IMO, The only thing that has changed is "us" and our "passivness" as compared to those that have gone before us.

[Blademaster]

Perhaps those men got tired of the solitary life in the field and needed, ahem..., diversions.

[Tankersteve]

It really isn't as simple as you described, as far as just making things easier to do for women. If it were easy to make weapons or gear lighter, we would have done it already.

What you propose is putting equality and opportunity ahead of military effectiveness.

Tankersteve

[Minskaya]

An example of positive warfare ergonomics.

Israel has switched from the rather long and cumbersome M16...



...to the much more compact and very lightweight TAR-21

[Tankersteve]

Yes, I am sure it is appreciated by personnel of shorter stature. In general, armies are switching away from the M-16 rifle to smaller carbine or bullpup weapons. This is easier for males and females. However, I don't think it was ever considered as a gender-enabling issue. It merely makes all Soldiers more effective at the ranges they are likely to see and PID their enemy.

Do you think we are issuing short-barreled GPMGs because they are handier for females? No, they weigh less and are easier to maneuver. They save energy for the assigned gunner on dismounted patrols. You still won't see many females being burdened with one, mainly due to the difficulty involved. And a M249/MINIMI weapon is not the solution - a 'strong-enough' soldier is.

Tankersteve

[Doktor]

TAR-21 was made for females, or was made with IDF's needs in mind? Like entering closed areas with something shorter then a spear ;)

I am all for females participating in the military in the branches they can pass the criteria. I am sure most of them are valuable assets where they serve, and should make it easier for those who want to join. Just don't lower the bar.

[Minskaya]

God damn. Relax a bit Tankersteve.

[Dreadnought]

TAR-21 was made for females, or was made with IDF's needs in mind? Like entering closed areas with something shorter then a spear ;)

I am all for females participating in the military in the branches they can pass the criteria. I am sure most of them are valuable assets where they serve, and should make it easier for those who want to join. Just don't lower the bar.

Dok,
No doubt they will still have to carry the ###lbs of body armor, helmet and arms with all of the extras that all males have to carry. If anyone here has, then they know it's not an easy task for either male or female.

Plus they will still have to "qualify" with their arms before deployment. No qualify, no deploy.

[Doktor]

DN,

That's why I say to make it easy as much as possible, but not to lower the bar. If the SHTF it's hard enough to take care of yourself, you don't need another worries.

P.S. A random thought. Are females sent to combat missions in "those days"?

[Minskaya]

Yes, I am sure it is appreciated by personnel of shorter stature.

I certainly appreciate it and I am over 6' ;)

TAR-21 was made for females, or was made with IDF's needs in mind?

Both actually. While it was being developed the designers had females test it and listened to their complaints. Many improvements in this vein resulted. I like it. Durable, lightweight, and ergonomically comfortable. Very accurate with minor recoil. Super fast clip changes and the charging handle is perfectly located.

Like entering closed areas with something shorter then a spear ;)

The greatest complaint about the M16 was its length. Not well suited for urban warfare or confined spaces. The TAR rectifies that shortcoming.

[Doktor]

Both actually. While it was being developed the designers had females test it and listened to their complaints. Many improvements in this vein resulted. I like it. Durable, lightweight, and ergonomically comfortable. Very accurate with minor recoil. Super fast clip changes and the charging handle is perfectly located.

Don't wanna be that guy who spoils the party, but I have doubts that if there was no concern for the length of M-16 or any significant objections, any lady would've been asked about opinion.

[Officer of Engineers]

Recoil is a problem? It's a 5.56 for pete sakes.

[Minskaya]

Don't wanna be that guy who spoils the party, but I have doubts that if there was no concern for the length of M-16 or any significant objections, any lady would've been asked about opinion.

In Israel it's a bit different. It is the females who instruct the males in marksmanship ;)

[Minskaya]

Recoil is a problem? It's a 5.56 for pete sakes.

Caliber has also been addressed. The Tavor X95 will utilize 7.62 NATO rounds for greater lethality and range,