The Greatest Ever Military Tanks

[Triple C]

Also as armor M1A2 could not stop "Cornet"

I am pretty sure the M1A2 can. Because the T-90 can. And ain't nothing is gonna stop a javeline.

Yes, when you let tank next to the building where enemy deployed AT team without killing them first, outcome can't be encouraging. Trial and eror - late T-series have mantle and side protection significantly improved.

Speaking of tactics, in urban fighting do the Russian tank crews clear their compartment out of main gun shells? Sure it cut ammo capacity to less than half, but it's a better bet than risking everybody's neck...

Not that any WWII tank crew complained about it.

[Bill]

I am pretty sure the M1A2 can. Because the T-90 can.

I suspect that frontal-wise, you are correct.

I doubt any tank would stop a heavy ATGM flank hit unless it had HEAT screens up, in which case all of the direct attack HEAT type ATGMs would be inneffective 1st round weapons(maybe the tandems would still be OK?).

That new hypervelocity tow missile will frontal kill any tank ever conceived. I wonder how that programs going. Havnt checked up on it in about a year. They probably cancelled it...LOL.

[Firral]

You don't have to convince me Comrade. I think pretty much all tanks are rolling coffins.

You know, I also as well as you, am the infantryman. Therefore tanks for me are more often represented as my opponents whom it is necessary to burn. ;)
However at their skilful use, they will be are very strong enemies (or allies if it is your tanks), and will destroy them not so simply.

[Bill]

However at their skilful use, they will be are very strong enemies (or allies if it is your tanks), and will destroy them not so simply.

Everything on and above the battlefield nowadays is geared towards killing armor.

Me say they be killed very too easy for to be sure.

[Triple C]

Firral, you do realize that M1's armor skirts aren't homogenous steel right? The contents are "classified" and is proven to be able to stop RPG-7s . . .

Heavier ATGMs would go through all modern MBT flanks no problems asked.

[kNikS]

Just for the record i don't think the frontal armor of any model T-72 would stop an M-829A1, and i don't think any T- series anything will stop an M829A3 at all. Nor will they stop a TOW II of any model, or a Javelin(top attacker) nor a Hellfire, even an AGM-114A. And forget about a Maverick.

That's what i think.

Turret of T-72B with K-5 can stop M829A1. I didn’t checked about other weapons, but as I said, I was talking about capabilities of tanks in tank vs. tank engagements.

PS: Who the hell was shooting at you with 105mm HESH? Who even uses that nowadays? The Croats?

Yes, Croats. I mentioned that to show that great amount of spalling failed to produce catastrophic explosion, even without anti spall liner.

Oh, just for note - M-84 or M-84A was never frontally penetrated in Balkan wars.

[Firral]

Everything on and above the battlefield nowadays is geared towards killing armor.
Me say they be killed very too easy for to be sure.

Example of correct use of tanks can be the American tanks in Iraq 2003, and Russian tanks in the Chechen Republic in 2000-2001. An example of misuse can be tanks in city Grozniy in 1995 or the Iraq tanks in 2003. A difference in their efficiency in these cases, very significant.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Firral, you do realize that M1's armor skirts aren't homogenous steel right? The contents are "classified" and is proven to be able to stop RPG-7s . . .

Heavier ATGMs would go through all modern MBT flanks no problems asked.

That's odd. I seem to remember on this very board a picture of an Abrams that had been hit in the skirts with some sort of HEAT weapon. Went all the way to the other side of the turret. I thought it was supposed to be some variant of an RPG, maybe more advanced than RPG 7 though.

[Defcon 6]

That's odd. I seem to remember on this very board a picture of an Abrams that had been hit in the skirts with some sort of HEAT weapon. Went all the way to the other side of the turret. I thought it was supposed to be some variant of an RPG, maybe more advanced than RPG 7 though.

It'd most certainly have to be more advanced than the RPG-7. I agree, haha. I've seen AP bullet punch through the skirt on an M1A2. At any rate, doesn't matter which tank it is...it's a one hit one kill warfare.

[Firral]

That's odd. I seem to remember on this very board a picture of an Abrams that had been hit in the skirts with some sort of HEAT weapon. Went all the way to the other side of the turret. I thought it was supposed to be some variant of an RPG, maybe more advanced than RPG 7 though.

It is considered that it was 9К129 "Cornet" (western name АТ-14) though I did not see somewhere the proof of presence at Iraq these rockets.

[leib10]

Everything on and above the battlefield nowadays is geared towards killing armor.

Me say they be killed very too easy for to be sure.

So much so that many strategists have questioned the survival of armor in the future.

[Bill]

Turret of T-72B with K-5 can stop M829A1.

I'd believe that when i saw it demonstrated, or read of a credible incident of it being demonstrated. Until then, it's just another russian defense brochure claim IMO.

Oh, just for note - M-84 or M-84A was never frontally penetrated in Balkan wars.

They never faced US tanks or ground forces. Likewise, they were very effective at hiding under cover from Allied airpower(as all ground forces are in that terrain, something the flyboys refuse to believe even now, lololol).

Any of a wide variety of current US munitions would blow a nice big hole in the front of an M-84 IMO, based on actual combat evidence and public demonstrations and my own first hand knowledge of US weapons systems(dated as it may be).

[Firral]

I'd believe that when i saw it demonstrated, or read of a credible incident of it being demonstrated. Until then, it's just another russian defense brochure claim IMO.

You can read about it here.

[Bill]

That's odd. I seem to remember on this very board a picture of an Abrams that had been hit in the skirts with some sort of HEAT weapon. Went all the way to the other side of the turret. I thought it was supposed to be some variant of an RPG, maybe more advanced than RPG 7 though.

Nope, IIRC that one missed the skirt and hit the thin hull between the road wheels.

That's a very vulnerable area on most tanks.

[Bill]

You can read about it here.

The link makes no mention of firing M829 ammunition(any model) at the T80 in those tests.

"# Infantry ATGLs (fired at a distance of 40m)

* RPG-7 (using advanced 105mm grenade PG-7VR with a tandem warhead, pen. 650mm RHA)
* RPG-26 (disposable launcher, pen. >500mm RHA)
* RPG-29 (advanced 105mm launcher, pen. 750mm RHA)

# ATGMs (fired at a distance of 600m)

* Malyutka-2 (pen. >600mm RHA)
* Metis (pen. 460mm RHA)
* Konkurs (pen. 650mm RHA)
* Kornet (pen. >850mm RHA)

# APFSDS (fired from T-80U MBT at a distance of 1,500m, the most likely round is 3BM42)

Each weapon was fired 5 times at each target, for a total of 20 shots per weapon. The total number of shots fired during the trials thus exceeded 150.

The trials yielded the following outcome:

* ATGLs
o T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations.
No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
o T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA.
Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.
* ATGMs
o T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
o T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target.
No other ATGMs could penetrate.
* APFSDS
o T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
Without ERA, one round penetrated.
o T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.
"

I see no M829 on that list, nor do i see ANY NATO round, APFSDS, HESH, or HEAT of ANY KIND on that list.

Hell, all the newest NATO missiles attack the TOP of the tank anyway, and bypass the frontal armor altogether.