Time's up on Iran

[Bluesman]

Guys, can I suggest we drop the personal invective? It really isn't helping.

DUDE! I'm being NICE! C'MON, I know I got a rep, but REALLY, I'm tryin', here!

[Bluesman]

Given very little is actually known about how far they are to weaponisation, and given that we do know they have the capability to have produced material for at least one weapon already, that definition is loose enough that it could be used to justify action now.

My point exactly.

[Bluesman]

Okay, where's Chunder? He sure has been quiet since his precious IAEA has been exposed as either incompetent or complicit, hasn't he? It sure is fun pointing it out, too.

WOW, he sure was eager to engage THEN. Really gave me a roundhouse blisterin' post.

And then it turned out he got played. Like, the very next day.

I'm sorry, but that was really cool. I hope he comes back, but I wouldn't blame him if he didn't. That's just got to be SO embarrassing.

Heh.

[Zinja]

The better questions are:
1. Will the Israelis get all the reactor facilities?
2. Will this strengthen the Iranian regime?
3. Will this result in a wider Middle East war?

just take out the just revealed facilties, they are the more dangerous ones because they have better centrifuges. At we least we know what the natamz ones are capable of, but we haven't got much on the recently revealed ones. I say take your chances, take out these ones and continue negotiations on the rest.

[Bluesman]

HEY, y'all know what might be FUN?

Let's do a search through old threads (hit the 'Year' and the 'Older Than' buttons), and then keywords 'National Intelligence Estimate', and look for references to the 2007 schlock that was attempted to sway policy-makers in what has to be the most naked, partisan attempt to influence policy by any intel organization that doesn't have a sword and shield on their crest.

It's absolutely shameful what went on with that NIE, and now it's exposed for the rank trickery that most of us always knew it to be.

But let's return to yesteryear, and see who backed it, and believed it, and invested in it. I think that would be instructive, don't you? Hm? Democrats? Think we're going to notice any trends? Hm?

[Zinja]

Which is still at least a year away and probably closer to four.

Remember the IAEA confidential has already admitted that Iran now posesses the know how to make a bomb, the question now is how quickly can they enrich the 5% cake to weapons grade. On that note, why do you think Iran will be asking the US for enriched nuclear fuel for the so called medical reactor?

[Bluesman]

just take out the just revealed facilties, they are the more dangerous ones because they have better centrifuges. At we least we know what the natamz ones are capable of, but we haven't got much on the recently revealed ones. I say take your chances, take out these ones and continue negotiations on the rest.

I like where you're head's at. But maybe for an alternate approach: let's rubble every single identified facility having any connection to the nuke program, starting at MoD HQ, and working right on down, until we get a phone call from some guy with a panicky voice yelling the Persian word for 'UNCLE!' into the phone.

Maybe sink the Iranian Navy, just for good measure, as a live-fire exercise, too.

And let everybody know that if ANY Hez or Hamas rockets land in Israel, we turn 'the Israelis loose with no intention of calling the IDF off until they get tired.

[Zinja]

In all this, i have one question that is lingering in my mind: Did Israel know about this secret facility? If they did why have they been kind of casual recently on the the Iran question with Perez even promising Russia that no military action is on the cards? One would have expected that if Israel did know they would be furiously running around the world galvanising support for the international community to do something.

[citanon]

In all this, i have one question that is lingering in my mind: Did Israel know about this secret facility? If they did why have they been kind of casual recently on the the Iran question with Perez even promising Russia that no military action is on the cards? One would have expected that if Israel did know they would be furiously running around the world galvanising support for the international community to do something.

I think this one was probably an open secret. Of course the Iranians have secret facilities. The Russians probably knew it. If they didn't they would have suspected. Is this the only one though?

[Parihaka]

And what a shame: they're going to save the rest of the freakin' ignorant world from itself AGAIN, and get the hide ripped off 'em for their trouble.

I read some of that dumbass Bigfella's posts that got quoted, and he's just the sort to lay into Israel. He really is a total flake if he believes what he wrote.

Enough of the personal abuse.

[Silent Hunter]

I think it should be pointed out that the B-2 program was VERY unpopular with Democrats. And it wouldn't be available if the decision had been left to them. Just sayin'.

Actually, Carter was the person who authorised the original ATB program in the late 1970s.

As I've said earlier, missile defence isn't being "killed off", just redirected towards the current threat- namely Iranian SRBMs, MRBMs and IRBMs.

Military action on a limited scale against Iran will in all likelihood lead to a wider Middle Eastern war. It's like a solid-fuelled missile in that regard- once you turn it on, you're not going to easily be able to turn it off.

[Silent Hunter]

DUDE! I'm being NICE! C'MON, I know I got a rep, but REALLY, I'm tryin', here!

You could do better. I was directing it at other people too.

[Zinja]

Is this the only one though?

Indeed, is it the only one? It takes a much smaller facility for military purposes, than it does for a reactor. The very fact that the Iranians have now declared this facility to the IAEA makes one suspicious that they probably have another backup facility somewhere.

[Zinja]

Military action on a limited scale against Iran will in all likelihood lead to a wider Middle Eastern war. It's like a solid-fuelled missile in that regard- once you turn it on, you're not going to easily be able to turn it off.

I don'th think so SH. I think timing is of essence here. Right now every level headed country knows that Iran has really botched big time with this facility, they have lost all credibility. As far as international laws are concerned, this facility is illegal, any strike on it would very justifiable. All level headed ME countries are brobably going to be mute at best and the other loud mouths will just do mass demonstrations in solidarity with Iran, nothing more. As for Iran itself, it wouldn't dare start launching missiles against Israel or any of the Arab countries with US bases because they are very much aware of the fact that their support is at its lowest right now, Iran is on the wrong with this facility. Any such ill advised adventure from Iran will be met with vicious retaliation and Iran will have no sympathy from anyone.

I say a strike within a month after Oct 1 whilst world opinion is still against Iran, would be the best time to do it.

[Parihaka]

The Americans, the French and British knew it. According to the various reports I've read neither Russia nor Israel were advised of those countries knowledge until the last few days.