Report: Iran Begins War Game With Warning to U.S., Israel

[Dreadnought]

Disagree.

[Deltacamelately]

Disagree.

Elaborate.

[ozjohn39]

They can call it "The Four Day War".

(and if the peace-lovers get in a lucky shot into a CVN it will be a TWO day war.)

John.

[Dreadnought]

Elaborate.

Major, Sir, First and foremost the USN is not going to risk a CVN in confined waters without dotting the I's and crossing the T's. That is her airwing would already be off well ahead of the approach of the CVN and more then likely sweep the straight after paying a visit to the Iranians attack boat base and moorings as well as any site then deem suspicious shore side. The island where Iran moores their fast attack boats is no secret and would more then likely cease to exist if the USN though warfare eminent. Secondly since the 1980's mine warfare detection has enhanced greatly through companies such as Lockheed and General Dynamics (They sweep US ports with it on a regular basis these days). Very compact and certainly effective and expendable. The US keeps the Stark in mind when transiting these waters and trust me they do their homework over and over again. In addition to this they will not take any chances for a torpedo strike. In other words they will destroy the torpedo boats either prior to engagment (via warplane or helo) or transiting the Straights itself and doubtfull that any CO of a CVN will allow an AO (Aux oiler or any other) replentishment ship to follow the group into the Straight. They will refuel escorts outside the Straights or even sooner and send her to pre designated coodinates with her escorts and air cover from landside to keep her safe.

Sir, They will sweep the Straights clean before entering with any CVN. Sweeping for mines with newer technology as well as any craft deemed a threat. It takes time and it takes range to launch a sucessfull torpedo attack. Something the Iranians certainly are not well schooled at and keep in mind this will be under battle conditions and much pressure of being the hunted. A CO of a CVN plus its Battlegroup would have it no other way. That is if he intends to keep his command intact and his sailors alive. Iranian Navy/Airforce wouldnt stand a chance against an alert CVN group. The USN's toolbox far outweighs anything the Iranians can throw at her. The question becomes what do the Iranians think will happen after this "Battle of the Straights" because IMO its not going to end here. A price must be payed in the end. Are they willing to pay it? Doubtful IMO.

Sir, One thing I failed to mention. If this were to happen in the Straights one could almost imagine atleast one or two more CVN battlesgroups are making underway for the Straights to secure it and everyone that gets there is going to add atleast 2 fold items wise in the USN arsenal. It will be overwelming to say the least.

[zraver]

Major, Sir, First and foremost the USN is not going to risk a CVN in confined waters without dotting the I's and crossing the T's. That is her airwing would already be off well ahead of the approach of the CVN and more then likely sweep the straight after paying a visit to the Iranians attack boat base and moorings as well as any site then deem suspicious shore side. The island where Iran moores their fast attack boats is no secret and would more then likely cease to exist if the USN though warfare eminent. Secondly since the 1980's mine warfare detection has enhanced greatly through companies such as Lockheed and General Dynamics (They sweep US ports with it on a regular basis these days). Very compact and certainly effective and expendable. The US keeps the Stark in mind when transiting these waters and trust me they do their homework over and over again. In addition to this they will not take any chances for a torpedo strike. In other words they will destroy the torpedo boats either prior to engagment (via warplane or helo) or transiting the Straights itself and doubtfull that any CO of a CVN will allow an AO (Aux oiler or any other) replentishment ship to follow the group into the Straight. They will refuel escorts outside the Straights or even sooner and send her to pre designated coodinates with her escorts and air cover from landside to keep her safe.

Sir, They will sweep the Straights clean before entering with any CVN. Sweeping for mines with newer technology as well as any craft deemed a threat. It takes time and it takes range to launch a sucessfull torpedo attack. Something the Iranians certainly are not well schooled at and keep in mind this will be under battle conditions and much pressure of being the hunted. A CO of a CVN plus its Battlegroup would have it no other way. That is if he intends to keep his command intact and his sailors alive. Iranian Navy/Airforce wouldnt stand a chance against an alert CVN group. The USN's toolbox far outweighs anything the Iranians can throw at her. The question becomes what do the Iranians think will happen after this "Battle of the Straights" because IMO its not going to end here. A price must be payed in the end. Are they willing to pay it? Doubtful IMO.

Sir, One thing I failed to mention. If this were to happen in the Straights one could almost imagine atleast one or two more CVN battlesgroups are making underway for the Straights to secure it and everyone that gets there is going to add atleast 2 fold items wise in the USN arsenal. It will be overwelming to say the least.

1- mine detection is not perfect, bottom laying rocket mines remain a very credible threat.

2- Shore fired truck mounted Noor anti-ships missiles can cover the entire strait.

3- the FAC's will probably be masked by the bog hammers. The itty bitty guys are not much of a threat, but they do create clutter making the air wing pull almost all the load until gun range

4- Air wing will be fighting 3 battles- 1 suppressing the Iranian naval assets, suppressing the Iranian air assets, and supporting the USMC/SEAL as it attacks off shore platforms and the Tunds islands with air support and SEAD.

5- Air wing has to protect the carrier groups (4-5) and the amphib groups (3-5), and the tankers

6- some if its SAM capability has to be detailed to defend Bahrain and other GCC sites.

7- If the US pulls all the carriers out of the Gulf while sending more to the region Iran gets a heads up so at least one has to be in the gulf to achieve surprise.

8- the US can either rush the non PG groups into support and give Iran more targets in the hope the counter attack is spread out, or hold them back to minimize risk to them and let the PG group bear the attack almost unsupported except by USAF assets.

The part in bold.

If the US fires first, I don't think the boats themselves will be the target, to many to sink. Better to get the crews in their barracks with a pre-strike by B-2's or close range cruise missile strikes by attack subs (who then sink the Kilos) Going afte rthe boats means 1 bomb 1 boat sunk or 1 cluster bomb and aseveral boats damaged. A single 2000lb JDAM could wipe out a flottilla of crews in their beds.

[Dreadnought]

1- mine detection is not perfect, bottom laying rocket mines remain a very credible threat.

2- Shore fired truck mounted Noor anti-ships missiles can cover the entire strait.

3- the FAC's will probably be masked by the bog hammers. The itty bitty guys are not much of a threat, but they do create clutter making the air wing pull almost all the load until gun range

4- Air wing will be fighting 3 battles- 1 suppressing the Iranian naval assets, suppressing the Iranian air assets, and supporting the USMC/SEAL as it attacks off shore platforms and the Tunds islands with air support and SEAD.

5- Air wing has to protect the carrier groups (4-5) and the amphib groups (3-5), and the tankers

6- some if its SAM capability has to be detailed to defend Bahrain and other GCC sites.

7- If the US pulls all the carriers out of the Gulf while sending more to the region Iran gets a heads up so at least one has to be in the gulf to achieve surprise.

8- the US can either rush the non PG groups into support and give Iran more targets in the hope the counter attack is spread out, or hold them back to minimize risk to them and let the PG group bear the attack almost unsupported except by USAF assets.

The part in bold.

If the US fires first, I don't think the boats themselves will be the target, to many to sink. Better to get the crews in their barracks with a pre-strike by B-2's or close range cruise missile strikes by attack subs (who then sink the Kilos) Going afte rthe boats means 1 bomb 1 boat sunk or 1 cluster bomb and aseveral boats damaged. A single 2000lb JDAM could wipe out a flottilla of crews in their beds.

1.) Mine detection these days is a far throw from the 80's/90's they are very fast, compact and light (about the size of a 6" pvc pipe) and approx 5' long. The new models are the expendible type with extremely clear video output. Mulitples can be ran in one sequence with a large coverage over one area and procede at a very good speed. The are also several detection capabilities for moored mines and sea bed mining capabilities. Much intelligence has been gleaned about the newer mines that countries such as Iran and Russia have been buying. copying for the own manufacturing purposes.

2.) As mentioned above they will sweep the area clear including shore based batteries since the Straight approches very close on the Iranian side. Not only will they sweep but remain on station for any contingency that evolves. If intended to take the Straight it wont be just CV born aircraft. Could possibly involve Helo ops for shore based coverage.

3) If intended to take the Straight the Iranian AF wont make it off the ground. They will be cleared long before the very first ship comes into range. You cant use an airforce that cant make it off the ground and chances are the runways will be unusable at this point as well a few Toms would clear this problem (two birds with one stone hole the runways and destroy comms and whats on the ground.) That alone negates the use of fighter coverage. They will leave certain planes in the area for any excess coverage and CAP. Even Saddam knew this and thats why his AF left Iraq for other countries when we came.

4) The Iranian AF cant match even one half of the CV airwing. Keep in mind the inventoiry they have aboard aircraft wise (Some 90 some slightly less) including their jamming capabilities among others.

5) The Iranians wont even have an idea the other CV 's in route. Its doubfull the USN would take any of them off station when you have others deployed to the area already.Maybe not the CV's (The U.S. has 12 do you know where they are deployed?) but other smaller flatops. And everybody knows a battlegroup around a CV includes two attack subs, DDG's, ASW Frigates, and perhaps one of the newer guided missle cruisers such as USS Sterret. Another field of schooling the Iranians could not hold a candle to their American counterparts in. No matter how much weaponry Russia sells them they still cant sell them the know how to use it effectively against superior forces that have done this time and time again for years.

Just think, If the U.S. wanted the Straight they could literally strangle Irans economy. As we discussed before Iran is not oil/processing in one package. They need the Straight just like everybody elses does and for the very same reasons however their is delivering the finished product instead of crude. That alone keeps them in check because our friend over their would probably loose his office if not his head if the Straights were taken by us dastardly Americans.

They can sabre rattle all they want but to do the job requires much more then they are capable of now and for the long run. And it wouldnt surprise me that during this rumble, with Iran preoccupied, Israel could easily pickle the nuclear program. Not saying it would happen but Israel is not one to wait as history tells and the time would be prime in many military views IMO.

Could they work that out with the U.S.? Your guess is as good as mine but the timing could not possibly get any better then such a scirmish.

[zraver]

[QUOTE=Dreadnought;534526]1.) Mine detection these days is a far throw from the 80's/90's they are very fast, compact and light (about the size of a 6" pvc pipe) and approx 5' long. The new models are the expendible type with extremely clear video output. Mulitples can be ran in one sequence with a large coverage over one area and procede at a very good speed. The are also several detection capabilities for moored mines and sea bed mining capabilities. Much intelligence has been gleaned about the newer mines that countries such as Iran and Russia have been buying. copying for the own manufacturing purposes. it still needs to be 100% effective if Iran gets the belts laid, thats asking a lot from any technology.

2.) As mentioned above they will sweep the area clear including shore based batteries since the Straight approches very close on the Iranian side. Not only will they sweep but remain on station for any contingency that evolves. If intended to take the Straight it wont be just CV born aircraft. Could possibly involve Helo ops for shore based coverage.

Israel could not stop rockets from Lebanon a smaller area with more aircraft. truck mounted system are hard to kill.

3) If intended to take the Straight the Iranian AF wont make it off the ground. They will be cleared long before the very first ship comes into range. You cant use an airforce that cant make it off the ground and chances are the runways will be unusable at this point as well a few Toms would clear this problem (two birds with one stone hole the runways and destroy comms and whats on the ground.) That alone negates the use of fighter coverage. They will leave certain planes in the area for any excess coverage and CAP. Even Saddam knew this and thats why his AF left Iraq for other countries when we came.

Saddam's airforce could flee because it made it off the ground. Airfields are had to knock out and keep out. And if the navy hangs back until the IIRAF is defeated then the Iranian Navy has at least a couple of days to control the strait block oil and lay mines.

4) The Iranian AF cant match even one half of the CV airwing. Keep in mind the inventoiry they have aboard aircraft wise (Some 90 some slightly less) including their jamming capabilities among others.

The IIRAF may be behind the technology curve but they have a lot of aircraft which makes them a threat.

5) The Iranians wont even have an idea the other CV 's in route. Its doubfull the USN would take any of them off station when you have others deployed to the area already.Maybe not the CV's (The U.S. has 12 do you know where they are deployed?) but other smaller flatops. And everybody knows a battlegroup around a CV includes two attack subs, DDG's, ASW Frigates, and perhaps one of the newer guided missle cruisers such as USS Sterret. Another field of schooling the Iranians could not hold a candle to their American counterparts in. No matter how much weaponry Russia sells them they still cant sell them the know how to use it effectively against superior forces that have done this time and time again for years.

Iran has an intelligence community. Its not hard to track the carriers via ports of call and the navy's own publicly provided information when you have the resources of a nation state behind you. Iran at least knows which ones are sea at any given time.

Just think, If the U.S. wanted the Straight they could literally strangle Irans economy. As we discussed before Iran is not oil/processing in one package. They need the Straight just like everybody elses does and for the very same reasons however their is delivering the finished product instead of crude. That alone keeps them in check because our friend over their would probably loose his office if not his head if the Straights were taken by us dastardly Americans.

quite possibly, but Iran has enough fuel to fight a war if not run its economy.

They can sabre rattle all they want but to do the job requires much more then they are capable of now and for the long run. And it wouldnt surprise me that during this rumble, with Iran preoccupied, Israel could easily pickle the nuclear program. Not saying it would happen but Israel is not one to wait as history tells and the time would be prime in many military views IMO.

How would Israel do that? The sites (plural- as many as 100) are out of range of the Israeli F-15i. If you do not even know that how can you comment on what Iran can do?

[Dreadnought]

Saddam's airforce could flee because it made it off the ground. Airfields are had to knock out and keep out. And if the navy hangs back until the IIRAF is defeated then the Iranian Navy has at least a couple of days to control the strait block oil and lay mines.

*Airfields are not that diffacult to knock out. All depends on the weapon chosen to do the job and can be done from safe distance or even from sea based platforms outside the Straight. Once done the occassional sweep will be made to insure that its not usable and to my knowledge they have no VSTOL capability to this date.

*The Iranian Navy still has to deal with the US fleet in Bahran enough said there.

The IIRAF may be behind the technology curve but they have a lot of aircraft which makes them a threat.

*I would say more like "far" behind the technology curve and alot of antiquated aircraft that would be safer left on the ground.
Especially if a U.S. land based 5th gen fighter entered the scene.
or the F117.What then?

Iran has an intelligence community. Its not hard to track the carriers via ports of call and the navy's own publicly provided information when you have the resources of a nation state behind you. Iran at least knows which ones are sea at any given time.

* Really? Do you know how many flatops there are out there or in port? Were not talking the CVN's but LPH etc. Their intel may know ports but no USN ship stays inport very long especially if set on a war footing (Ships have disappeared for weeks without sighting nor communications) such as USS New Jersey during Vietnam deployment. Lest we forget they are all Nukes now and replentish at sea no matter where they are and their airwings can be refueled from several land bases, in flight and with inflight fueling and the bases scattered about they could easily come in from land instead of at sea. Iran's resources could never cover all the bases just the ones they deem practical.

quite possibly, but Iran has enough fuel to fight a war if not run its economy

*How long of a war if those supplies suddenly disappeared and judging by some of the news coming from Iran their gas dispensing even to their own public has fallen severly behind. They need the Straights as much as anybody where as we can draw fuel from many locations logistically speaking including Iraq if need be. Dont think they wont aid the country/countries that helped them and erased their debts as well.

How would Israel do that? The sites (plural- as many as 100) are out of range of the Israeli F-15i. If you do not even know that how can you comment on what Iran can do?

*Whats to say they dont get fueled from land base or in flight. You seem to forget that if Iran attempts to close the Straights we wont be the only ones knocking at their door and if Israel were to take that approach whats to say that giving them (or anybody giving them) fuel means that we agree with what they are about to do?

*Being neighborly to Israeli Air forces doesnt necessarily mean that we concur with their actions just roadside assistance. AAA if you would.:))

"IF" big "IF" McCain was to voted as president what makes you think he would not help Israel in much the same light as Russia has supplied Iran with the Nukes and weaponry. Think about it and also consider Russia's latest actions.

[zraver]

*Airfields are not that diffacult to knock out. All depends on the weapon chosen to do the job and can be done from safe distance or even from sea based platforms outside the Straight. Once done the occassional sweep will be made to insure that its not usable and to my knowledge they have no VSTOL capability to this date.

care to show even 1 example of a military airfield being knocked out for more than 24 hours ever? over 2000 high tech plane sin 1991 and we could not keep the Iraqi airforce grounded.

*The Iranian Navy still has to deal with the US fleet in Bahran enough said there.

The fleet head quarters and shore based support assets will be under SSM attack.

*I would say more like "far" behind the technology curve and alot of antiquated aircraft that would be safer left on the ground.
Especially if a U.S. land based 5th gen fighter entered the scene.
or the F117.What then?

If the F-117 gets pulled back into service things are really going bad for the US. As for the F-22 it still has to be there when the attack comes in.

* Really? Do you know how many flatops there are out there or in port? Were not talking the CVN's but LPH etc. Their intel may know ports but no USN ship stays inport very long especially if set on a war footing (Ships have disappeared for weeks without sighting nor communications) such as USS New Jersey during Vietnam deployment. Lest we forget they are all Nukes now and replentish at sea no matter where they are and their airwings can be refueled from several land bases, in flight and with inflight fueling and the bases scattered about they could easily come in from land instead of at sea. Iran's resources could never cover all the bases just the ones they deem practical.

If they are not in port they are at sea and a possible threat. Iran can track the ones in port.

*How long of a war if those supplies suddenly disappeared and judging by some of the news coming from Iran their gas dispensing even to their own public has fallen severly behind. They need the Straights as much as anybody where as we can draw fuel from many locations logistically speaking including Iraq if need be. Dont think they wont aid the country/countries that helped them and erased their debts as well.

not dispensing, government fuel subsidies that let them buy gas at less than cost.

*Whats to say they dont get fueled from land base or in flight. You seem to forget that if Iran attempts to close the Straights we wont be the only ones knocking at their door and if Israel were to take that approach whats to say that giving them (or anybody giving them) fuel means that we agree with what they are about to do?

*Being neighborly to Israeli Air forces doesnt necessarily mean that we concur with their actions just roadside assistance. AAA if you would.:))

"IF" big "IF" McCain was to voted as president what makes you think he would not help Israel in much the same light as Russia has supplied Iran with the Nukes and weaponry. Think about it and also consider Russia's latest actions.

It is the single worst move the US could make, even the most rational Arab leaders tend to go cross eyed when Israel attacks, the little bit of give they had was burned up when Israel smashed Tyre and Beirut.

[Dreadnought]

care to show even 1 example of a military airfield being knocked out for more than 24 hours ever? over 2000 high tech plane sin 1991 and we could not keep the Iraqi airforce grounded.



The fleet head quarters and shore based support assets will be under SSM attack.



If the F-117 gets pulled back into service things are really going bad for the US. As for the F-22 it still has to be there when the attack comes in.





If they are not in port they are at sea and a possible threat. Iran can track the ones in port.




not dispensing, government fuel subsidies that let them buy gas at less than cost.





It is the single worst move the US could make, even the most rational Arab leaders tend to go cross eyed when Israel attacks, the little bit of give they had was burned up when Israel smashed Tyre and Beirut.

1) In short reference http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...power-v2-5.pdf
Just to give an idea of what "could" happen.

2) I sincerely doubt the 5th Fleet would be sitting at moorings for this attack and if they did sortie then guess where there going? Did you consider other Arab countries feeling threatened enough to put their own forces on alert?

3) For all "we" know there could already be F-22's there. What defense does Iran have against something they cant see and can target numerous aircraft lifting off their bases (if still intact which is doubtful in the area of the Straights) and so far out of range they'd swear its raining air to air missles from heaven.

4) Why would you say if the F-117 were called to service that things are going bad for the U.S.? Many models of aircraft have been pulled back into service before during wartime. What makes the F-117 so different from B1, B2, B52 etc?

5) Trust me they are not in port awaiting a SSM attack. They are now all Nukes and gas turbines. They can get underway and clear port within several minutes not hours and probably even faster if on a war footing. No Pearl Harbors happening here my friend.

6) Subsidies aside if we take the Straight they wont last long at all and will more then likely sue or attempt to sue for peace because they wont win any campaign if the U.S. truelly enforces its muscle and will.And thats where they will loose their nuclear capability, that is if someone dont take it from them first.

7) Again look at the link posted above. The Saudis want us to buy their oil, It keeps their economy settled, if it was choked then so would OPEC. And given the fact that drilling has become such an issue that in itself will help them clear their conscience and give them much clearer vision. Keep in mind the fact that the Saudies also dont want Iran to have nuclear arms as well as many other nations. And the Saudies especially dont like oil being held hostage the life blood of their own and other nations economies.

[zraver]

1) In short reference http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...power-v2-5.pdf
Just to give an idea of what "could" happen.

I like how it highlights the fact that even with hundreds of aircraft, the IAF still got off the ground. Iran has more planes and fields and the navy has fewer (although more capable) craft to hit those fields.

2) I sincerely doubt the 5th Fleet would be sitting at moorings for this attack and if they did sortie then guess where there going? Did you consider other Arab countries feeling threatened enough to put their own forces on alert?

And what pray tell are they going to do?

3) For all "we" know there could already be F-22's there. What defense does Iran have against something they cant see and can target numerous aircraft lifting off their bases (if still intact which is doubtful in the area of the Straights) and so far out of range they'd swear its raining air to air missles from heaven.

And for all we know there aren't. The closest ones would be in Deigo Garcia. If they are based anywhere in the GCC with its significant shia minority Iran knows.

4) Why would you say if the F-117 were called to service that things are going bad for the U.S.? Many models of aircraft have been pulled back into service before during wartime. What makes the F-117 so different from B1, B2, B52 etc?

smaller bomb load means the risk per mission vs the pay off is higer as compared to a B-2 or a F-22 dropping SDB.

5) Trust me they are not in port awaiting a SSM attack. They are now all Nukes and gas turbines. They can get underway and clear port within several minutes not hours and probably even faster if on a war footing. No Pearl Harbors happening here my friend.

the fuel tanks, warhouses, command buildings and shore personnel are not going anywhere. Not to mention the flight time from Iran to Bahrain is so short that any ship not already planning on getting underway would probably lose that race.

6) Subsidies aside if we take the Straight they wont last long at all and will more then likely sue or attempt to sue for peace because they wont win any campaign if the U.S. truelly enforces its muscle and will.And thats where they will loose their nuclear capability, that is if someone dont take it from them first.

They won't sue for peace until their hope of sinking a carrier is gone. They have built such a large and robust capability that it will take time and considerable risk to defeat them.

7) Again look at the link posted above. The Saudis want us to buy their oil, It keeps their economy settled, if it was choked then so would OPEC. And given the fact that drilling has become such an issue that in itself will help them clear their conscience and give them much clearer vision. Keep in mind the fact that the Saudies also dont want Iran to have nuclear arms as well as many other nations. And the Saudies especially dont like oil being held hostage the life blood of their own and other nations economies.

And not one bit of that matters, if we go to war Iran is sunk already so future concerns do not matter.

[Dreadnought]

1) And where did the aircraft go? With the exception of few they ran as fast as they could far away from Iraqi airspace. I would amost bet that a few countries got "free" aircraft that day courtesy of Saddam.The USN dont need special aircraft to hit those fields personally I would opt for a few Toms instead, but if needed JDAM or other. Hole the runways and destroy communications. If not that choice the F-117 could do the job without too much diffaculty if they choose to use it.

2) They arent the maytag man they dont sit around and wait for the phone to ring or something to break. Just like any other military they are training, on manuvers,doing maintenance, lending support, perhaps medical support or charity there are many jobs being done when a fleet is in port. That certainly does not necessatate all of the fleet being in port at once however.

3) There are many possibilities to answer that question. No one country in that region wants to see Iran nuclear armed or controlling a large portion of the worlds oil production through blackmail. It wont happen and that is fact.

4) Where is the best place to test the latest and greatest toys? Answer..on the battlefield or in the skies above it.
* The closest ones arent in Diego Garcia. Not even close.;)

5) IMO they would pick the best tool for the job no matter the aircraft.

6) I think its pretty safe to say that they wouldnt launch against Bahrain. Iran knows well it dont want to fire the first shots because of the price that would be paid for stupidity. They arent that stupid and on top of that they would already have a heads up of a launch.

And you could possibly be right that they might not make to sortie but to sink them would be an entirely different matter. Both the base and the ships themselves arent unarmed you know. Whats Iran going to do if those sea platforms open up in return and perhaps strike Tehran with a shower of missles or perhaps worse? Think they want to take that chance?

7) They're hope of sinking a CVN with its battlegroup is a pipe dream nothing more nothing less. To do so would probably not only destroy their capital, their nuke facilities, infastructure, dams, communications, utilities, bridges, roadways and any building standing for that matter and the entire destruction of their military then face invasion. Plus if sunk it would surely garentee a U.S. taking of the straight, destruction of Iran and the USN's presence (heavy presence with a shhot first policy) mind you until they retrieve every bit of technology from that sunken CVN and its airwings which could take months or years. Think Iran can wait that long to even start rebuilding and still remain a resembelence of any government with control? Especially religious enforced control? Doubt it.

8) Oh, but future concerns do matter whern you consider peace in the region. Especially to the Saudi's and to our own interests. Iran wont disappear but the men ruling that government at the time of attack will beyond doubt.;)

[zraver]

7) They're hope of sinking a CVN with its battlegroup is a pipe dream nothing more nothing less. To do so would probably not only destroy their capital, their nuke facilities, infastructure, dams, communications, utilities, bridges, roadways and any building standing for that matter and the entire destruction of their military then face invasion. Plus if sunk it would surely garentee a U.S. taking of the straight, destruction of Iran and the USN's presence (heavy presence with a shhot first policy) mind you until they retrieve every bit of technology from that sunken CVN and its airwings which could take months or years. Think Iran can wait that long to even start rebuilding and still remain a resembelence of any government with control? Especially religious enforced control? Doubt it.

8) Oh, but future concerns do matter whern you consider peace in the region. Especially to the Saudi's and to our own interests. Iran wont disappear but the men ruling that government at the time of attack will beyond doubt.;)

name one thing different the US is going to do if a carrier is sunk vs if its not. Iran sat right next door to Saddam and watched how we imposed a peace on Iraq. if war comes, Iran has already lost everything so why not go for the gold?

[Dreadnought]

name one thing different the US is going to do if a carrier is sunk vs if its not. Iran sat right next door to Saddam and watched how we imposed a peace on Iraq. if war comes, Iran has already lost everything so why not go for the gold?

Lets see off the top of my head.....

Sinking a Capital ship without declaration of war would most certainly call for a Nuke to be dropped however doubtfull. But the U.S. would ignorantly and methodically take Iran apart piece by nuclear piece and think nothing of it in the following hours/days and further doubtful they would buy into anybody sueing for peace processes and the government forced out. They would bomb Tehran/Iran day and night until their reveard profit comes make no mistake.

The U.S. dont want war with Iran but Iran continues its path. I wonder how McCain is going to handle them..Hint alot more aggressive that Obama,;)

[citanon]

Lets see off the top of my head.....

Sinking a Capital ship without declaration of war would most certainly call for a Nuke to be dropped however doubtfull. But the U.S. would ignorantly and methodically take Iran apart piece by nuclear piece and think nothing of it in the following hours/days and further doubtful they would buy into anybody sueing for peace processes and the government forced out. They would bomb Tehran/Iran day and night until their reveard profit comes make no mistake.

The U.S. dont want war with Iran but Iran continues its path. I wonder how McCain is going to handle them..Hint alot more aggressive that Obama,;)

The US would also, literally, kill the Mullahs.