US authorises ground assaults inside Pak

[citanon]

The terrorists are not considered enemies by majority of the Pakistanis but Islamic Mujahids who will get the Pakistanis leverage in Afghanistan and can be used against their enemies at will.

Exactly. It seems to me that "ending cooperation" is a threat with limited leverage. The Pakistanis can try to cut off material flow, but that would take them from uncooperative to fully hostile....

[citanon]

I don't think that anyone is against the military raison d'être for hot pursuit.

Your girlfriend's cousin is rightfully frustrated as Indian soldiers are in Kashmir, where because of international law and Big Power intervention, they cannot do hot pursuits into Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

That is the sad part of the paradigm of the world political matrix.

Declaration of war alone allows transcending international borders!

Knock me down with a feather, if there is anyone except Pakistan, who would support the terrorists!

But then, the US handles Pakistan with kid gloves!

As ye sow, so shall ye reap!

I am by no means a military expert, but it seems to me that the new capabilities that have been applied so successively in Iraq may have changed the strategic picture on the Pakistan/Afghan border. Previously, there was a dichotomy in Pakistani and US interests and extensive double dealing by the PK government at all levels, but the US could not effectively influence events in the NWFPs without Pakistani assistance. With the success of these new capabilities, the US may have gained the ability to wipe out operational echelons of militant leadership without extensive Pakistani intelligence assistance or the persistent presence of US soldiers on the ground.

This capability alone could not wipe out any militant faction, but there are forces present to exploit weaknesses and power vacuums: the NWFPs are full of competing factions with differing objectives and differing degrees of hostility towards US interests in Afghanistan. The US can now manipulate power balance between these factions at will using their new capabilities, allowing factions less hostile to US interests to out compete those that are more hostile. This is Charles Darwin, applied to social engineering of Islamic militancy.

Furthermore, since groups in the NWFPs seem to be divided into those colluding with the government to attack US interests, and those ignoring the US and fighting the government, the US can forcibly remove the dichotomy between PK and US interests by weakening the first group while allowing the second to grow stronger in their place. The PK government is then forced to increasingly confront militants in the tribal areas as those hostile to PK interests gain power.

This is a risky game that could get really out of hand, but PK duplicity leaves the US no choice. How could they expect respect of their "sovereignty" when they have so little control over their own territory? How could they expect the US to value their cooperation when they are the ones providing safe haven and encouragement to those attacking US forces?

PK government forces may seek to intercede on the behalf of friendly militants, but there is no question what would happen: last month eight PK border guards were killed when US planes struck their position. This was no accident. US forces returned fire after they began firing in support of their Mujahid brothers. Apparently, the Americans will not hesitate to vaporize "allies" whose guns are turned the wrong way.

[Vinod2070]

I am by no means a military expert, but it seems to me that the new capabilities that have been applied so successively in Iraq may have changed the strategic picture on the Pakistan/Afghan border.

I keep reading a bit about the new capabilities. Do you have a link for what these capabilities are? Thx.

[citanon]

I keep reading a bit about the new capabilities. Do you have a link for what these capabilities are? Thx.

What they are is not clear. Only their results have been clearly stated. We have a discussion in the following thread.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/war...i-leaders.html

Also, the Aviation Week guys have some speculations that, IMO, seem to have loopholes and inconsistencies:

[Vinod2070]

^^ Thx, Citanon.

[bengalraider]

M A I N N E W S

Pak army to retaliate if US conducts raids
Afzal Khan writes from Islamabad

The Pakistan Army has been ordered to retaliate against any action by foreign troops inside the country, army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas said on Friday.

General Abbas' statement came as top brass of the Pakistan Army in their meeting on second day fully endorsed their chief's warning that no country would be allowed to violate Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

A press release issued after the 111th Corps Commanders Conference quoted General Ashfaq Kayani as saying that “all elements of the National Power under the new democratic leadership will safeguard the territorial integrity of Pakistan with full support and backing of the people of Pakistan.”

General Kayani's statement on Wednesday regarding army's resolve to defend borders at all costs against the backdrop of repeated US threats of cross-border raids inside Pakistan territory bordering Afghanistan has been widely acclaimed in the country. It has refurbished army's image that had touched rock bottom because of its involvement in internal politics under Pervez Musharraf.

Political leaders and the media, while welcoming Kayani's bold stand, made an embarrassing comparison to relatively feeble response from democratic government. Officials here said Kayani's expression," under the new democratic leadership" was designed to dispel the impression that the army was competing with the government in winning popular acclaim.

It was not clear how the army would retaliate to American raids but in an earlier statement chief of Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmad, had claimed that the PAF has the capability to intercept air strikes inside Pakistan territory. In a related development, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, parliamentary leader of the PML-N Thursday urged the government to convene a joint session of Parliament to discuss the American threats. He said the joint session would strengthen government's response to foreign pressure and help devise a national policy on war on terrorism.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News

tehran times : Pakistan army ordered to hit back at U.S. forces

Army ordered to hit back

things are heating up,i only hope some crazy islamist NCO in the PAK army dosen't take this too much to heart and shoot any americans.

[citanon]

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News

tehran times : Pakistan army ordered to hit back at U.S. forces

Army ordered to hit back

things are heating up,i only hope some crazy islamist NCO in the PAK army dosen't take this too much to heart and shoot any americans.

The Frontier Corps have been shooting at Americans across the border.

[Yusuf]

When i started the thread i was wondering what Gen Kiyani intended to do to retaliate. Use F 16s? Well thats exactly what has happened. Pakistanis scrambled F 16s intercept US Drones, Luckily they didnt face off as the Pakistanis didnt find it.
News reports say that many US Lawmakers are worried as to what the Pakistanis will do with the F 16s and also raising questions about the $250million upgrade package that Bush has given Pakistan.

[bengalraider]

When i started the thread i was wondering what Gen Kiyani intended to do to retaliate. Use F 16s? Well thats exactly what has happened. Pakistanis scrambled F 16s intercept US Drones, Luckily they didnt face off as the Pakistanis didnt find it.
News reports say that many US Lawmakers are worried as to what the Pakistanis will do with the F 16s and also raising questions about the $250million upgrade package that Bush has given Pakistan.

when did this happen any links???
if it really did pakistan can kiss any new f-16's or upgrades good bye.

[Yusuf]

I read it in The Times of India this morning. didnt find any link online.

[Yusuf]

here you go
US faces the F-16s it supplied Pakistan-USA-World-The Times of India

[Ray]

here you go
US faces the F-16s it supplied Pakistan-USA-World-The Times of India

This makes an unique issue.

What will happen if the PAF shoots down one of the drones?

Pakistan is entitled to protect her airspace, and yet on the other hand, Pakistan is a committed ally of the US in the War on Terror (WoT) and so the act would go against the spirit of being an ally as also the WoT.

Or will the PAF get scrambled and 'not find' any drones? :))

[Ray]

This is a risky game that could get really out of hand, but PK duplicity leaves the US no choice. How could they expect respect of their "sovereignty" when they have so little control over their own territory?

It is true that the events indeed indicate that Pakistan has no control over Waziristhan, NWFP or FATA.

Yet, they continue to claim they do.

And hence, they are averse to US land forces incursions.

True, the situation is getting a trifle serious.

[Yusuf]

Also read another report that Pakistani forces provided protective fire to Taliban when they were under attack from the US forces so that they could escape. The firing was so intense that the US forces had to call in CAS

[The One]

SOURCE:- US troops' attempt to enter inside Pakistan's territory foiled

US troops' attempt to enter inside Pakistan's territory foiled

Updated at: 1210 PST, Monday, September 15, 2008

WANA: Pakistan Army and local tribes on Monday foiled an attempt of US troops to enter inside Pakistan’s territory through two American helicopters.

According to sources, US troops boarded on two helicopters were trying to enter onto Pakistan’s areas near Angoor Adda along Pak-Afghan border when local tribes and troops of Pakistan army resisted the move and opened fire, forcing US helicopters to return.

Sources said situation remains tense in the area while local tribals along with Pakistan army are also positioned to face any untoward situation.

Meanwhile, Pakistan’s authorities haven’t officially confirmed the incident.