Preacher of hate 'who praised 7/7 bombers' is arrested

[cheetah]

sorry double post

[bandwagon]

ok PF but which version of the bible are you quoting John 14-6? I am not a religous person but the last time I looked there was a myriad of versions of the book, which surely means we can pick and choose to suit our argument at the time or interpretation?.........the principle maybe the same but the interpretation we choose could be used to prove a personal point of view.

That's the point. Men teach hate, in the name of religion, Isalm and Christianity. Other men also teach peace and love, in the name of the same. It depends on interpretation.

You can argue it is easier to interpret the Quran as teaching hate than the Bible, but don't overlook the hate that is spouted in the name of the Bible. Hate for atheists, homosexuals, abortionists etc. People are disowned by their Christian families for all of these.

Sharia law? that's nothing. There is a movement in the US, not on the fringe, that want a Christian theocracy and introduce Old Testament law, with execution of homosexuals, stoning of adulterers (women), forced conversions and killing of those who don't.

[joey2]

But its firmly cemented by the time they reach adulthood. No religion teaches hate. That's one of the main distinctions between a religion and a cult along with openness and freedom of choice.

I disagree, cults are a part of EVERY religion.
Be it all abrahmic faiths be it all pagan faiths.

To accept being "my" RELIGION IS PERFECT is what i term brainwashed peoples.

NO religion is perfect and has nutcases in them some more, some less.



Problem arises when your "not" allowed to think on your own and decide "yes this is not correct" in my religion.

There is a difference between sublimation and evaporation.

[T_igger_cs_30]

saying that off course there is a nut jobs in Muslims

[Ex MIB]

Cheetah, where are you currently residing, unfortunately your Avitar is a bit vague and just declares "earth".
Can you narrow it down to a country please?

[T_igger_cs_30]

.

Sharia law? that's nothing. There is a movement in the US, not on the fringe, that want a Christian theocracy and introduce Old Testament law, with execution of homosexuals, stoning of adulterers (women), forced conversions and killing of those who don't.

I guess we are on the same train BW, however we will always have these "fringe" cultures the difference is , (and I know whats coming from the statement I am about to make)..........the difference is in a civilised christian culture it will never happen, would not be allowed, Sharia law where practiced will never change

[Ray]

Redirect to new thread

[subba]

However, as I infer, I don't believe they exist to "create" the seige mentality. They exist for fundamental, sociological reasons, and the resulting seige mentality is an unhappy consequence of that tendency.

I had put this in different words:

They seige themselves by their rejection of the host population ethics.

and I would be very interested in reading more about India's ethnic makeup if you had some good links.

The ethnic make up is simple to find. It's distribution bit complex. But what is clearly emerging is that Muslims are being left out enmasse from development. Most slums in Mumbai are muslim dominated. Landing in Mumbai airport i was stunned seeing slums on the port side. Green flags fluttering. Raising certain issues can be very un-PC here. Only people like Bal Thackeray speak out. But they too behave as fringe as some of these Islamic elements.

I am positive, India like UK will face up some very difficult times virtue it's ethnic make up. I think it's important that UK controls it's ethnic make up so that the host population can adjust to changes. It won't help Sir bringing in large volumes of Pakistani migrants enmasse into British towns and cities. Will backfire some way both for the hosts and the immigrants.

[Ray]

Redirect to new thread

[subba]

Remember, my shoulders are not that strong for another person to fire a gun over it!

LOL. Thats a high calibre loaded statement Ray sir! Well put. :)

[PubFather]

ok PF but which version of the bible are you quoting John 14-6? I am not a religous person but the last time I looked there was a myriad of versions of the book, which surely means we can pick and choose to suit our argument at the time or interpretation?.........the principle maybe the same but the interpretation we choose could be used to prove a personal point of view.

That particular quote is virtually the same in every and any version of the Bible you care to look at. It is actually one of the absolute cornerstones of Christianity.

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: John 14:6;

If you change the version on the above website, you'll see what I mean.


Jesus' teaching were full of peace, yet how many have died due to a wilful misinterpretation/mis-emphasisation of certain tracts to the exclusion of others? Read Revelation, which full of the need to fight the last war of destruction against Satan, a war fought by all true believers (the "Elect") against all non-believers. All non-believers roast for ever in Hell's Oven... Not especially different from what some passages in Islamic teaching can be interpreted as - and how many Western evangelicals believe that we are living in the "end-times"? Millions, I would say. And that belief has already been misused to promote violence and hatred.

We also have the whole conundrum of the OT - even fundamentalist Christians pick and chose which parts they believe. For e.g, shellfish should be banned but most Christians don't have a problem with it.

Non-radical Muslims, like non-radical Christians, are quite capable of focussing on the parts that they "like" and interpret parts they don't like. Which just goes to show that "book based" religions are simply awful and utterly flawed.

[Ray]

Pubfather,

Just answer one question.

Are the radical Christians on a warpath against all non Christian and killing them with suicide bombers and rampaging in a beheading orgy?

I will not interpret the Scriptures, but I will use an old homily - "Stick and Stones will break my bones, but words cannot harm me!". So, let all the radicals of all religions bark. Who cares?

But if the radicals of a religion want to behead me, and the non radicals don't protest, then sure I care!

When radical Christians rant, are they not laughed at and heaped scorn by the non radicals and that too with all the publicity at their command?

Has the KKK not been banned and aren't they being clamped in jail even when old old cases are brought up once again?

To my mind, that is the difference.

[PubFather]

I had put this in different words:

My mistake, I misread your original post... humbly apologise. (And partially agree).

The ethnic make up is simple to find. It's distribution bit complex. But what is clearly emerging is that Muslims are being left out enmasse from development. Most slums in Mumbai are muslim dominated. Landing in Mumbai airport i was stunned seeing slums on the port side. Green flags fluttering. Raising certain issues can be very un-PC here. Only people like Bal Thackeray speak out. But they too behave as fringe as some of these Islamic elements.

I am positive, India like UK will face up some very difficult times virtue it's ethnic make up. I think it's important that UK controls it's ethnic make up so that the host population can adjust to changes. It won't help Sir bringing in large volumes of Pakistani migrants enmasse into British towns and cities. Will backfire some way both for the hosts and the immigrants.

I agree on careful immigration controls. It does seem note-worthy to me that Muslims in India are being left-behind economically the same way as they are in the UK (although not without many noteworthy exceptions).

I think (Ray I believe) did put his finger on it. Devout Muslims spend more time learning the Qu'ran than in pursuing a more balanced education. Therefore, they are less capable of seizing the economic opportunities offered.

Some are perhaps less motivated (especially in the UK) to devote time to education/economic success and seek to pursue their devotion to their faith. This has the side-effect of making them poorer, less integrated, less content and only fosters further rejection of the "host" culture. One of the great ironies of Al Bakri was that, despite being devoted to the overthrow of Britain, he lived on benefits.

[Ray]

One of the great ironies of Al Bakri was that, despite being devoted to the overthrow of Britain, he lived on benefits

While I do appreciate your defence of Islam and I congratulate you for some fine arguments and as I have said earlier I am not singlemindedly against Islam, but what make me feel real uncomfortable is that the vast majority seem to enjoy wallowing in poverty , illiteracy and self pity. And what is worse is that they make it an immense virtue in knowing their religious book by rote! As if by regurgitating the scripture it will feed the stomach! (the Al Bakri contention of your post is a case in point)

Even though that (regurgitating the scripture alone) is not acceptable in modern life where there has to be some sort of economic empowerment so that one is not a social parasite and an encumbrance on the govt and society in general, yet they don't lift a finger to do anything about it and instead blame everyone else for their miseries!!!!

Great efforts in one of the post was done to explain why people live in slums and have the ghetto mentality (and if you notice everyone else was blamed for it!), but not a word was said as to how to leave the ghetto and come out on your own!

And not a word of one's shortcomings leading to a slum existence and ghetto mentality!

[PubFather]

Pubfather,

Just answer one question.

Be delighted to sir!

Are the radical Christians on a warpath against all non Christian and killing them with suicide bombers and rampaging in a beheading orgy?

Are all radical Muslims doing the same? No. Some are, some are not. Fewer radical Christians are these days - but perhaps we have (mostly) grown out of it.

If circumstances were to be different - could we say the same?

I will not interpret the Scriptures, but I will use an old homily - "Stick and Stones will break my bones, but words cannot harm me!". So, let all the radicals of all religions bark. Who cares?

Absolutely agree.

But if the radicals of a religion want to behead me, and the non radicals don't protest, then sure I care!

Agree as well, and this is the worst aspect of Islam imo, the moderates are too quiet.

When radical Christians rant, are they not laughed at and heaped scorn by the non radicals and that too with all the publicity at their command?

In the US, they can block the presidency and have a huge amount of influence over policy.

Has the KKK not been banned and aren't they being clamped in jail even when old old cases are brought up once again?

Slightly different issue - but yes they are. As are radical Muslims...

To my mind, that is the difference.

I agree that the violence and intolerance of Muslims to "blasphemy" is unacceptable and wrong. Having said that, Christians have reacted very violently in the past to blasphemy, as have other religious groups. I do take the point that this does not happen very often now.

Radical Christians in the UK are very much a "fringe" within a minority of "active" Christians. The Christian right within the US worries me more - being far larger and more influential.

I do take your point: at the present time, and circumstances the focus on Islam is understandable and inevitable. I simply ask that people do not take it out of perspective.