Libya updates

[snapper]

Loving the moped - that is above and beyond the call of RT jokes.

[kato]

What's up with that one silver car without license plates? That one's popped up a couple times by now...

[snapper]

Rebel flag on what they say is the compound: yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/h6temxfj Shared by Libyan4life

Live coverage now on Sky; Sky News, First for Breaking News, Latest News and Video News from the UK and around the World

[Dago]

Little bit related to the topic, I was going through youtube videos of rebels taking Gadaffi's compound and then I also came across this one from Bahrain - (Libya Soldiers Executed by Foreign African Mercenaries in Derna - Gaddafi Gang - YouTube) (Graphic)

Kinda makes em disgusted that the us supports despotic regimes in Bahrain and elsewhere. You think we would support Democracy in Libya we would also support democracy in Bahrain?

[RoccoR]

et al,

Be careful what you fight for, you just may get it.

While we tend to win military engagements, we just as commonly tend to lose control and success in the post-conflict phase. And if Libya turns into a radical state, we could achieve a worse condition than we stated with; and it will be blamed on the US. We simply don't have the money to through away on another failed "democratization effort."

And we don't want to have to establish another huge US Political-Military contingent in another Arab country.

Most Respectfully,
R

[Dago]

et al,

Be careful what you fight for, you just may get it.

While we tend to win military engagements, we just as commonly tend to lose control and success in the post-conflict phase. And if Libya turns into a radical state, we could achieve a worse condition than we stated with; and it will be blamed on the US. We simply don't have the money to through away on another failed "democratization effort."

And we don't want to have to establish another huge US Political-Military contingent in another Arab country.

Most Respectfully,
R

At this point, I don't think there is any talk of a larger intervention then what's presently occurring. The start of the conflict, do you remember what the world witnessed on television beamed from media outlets from the region? We saw very large protests in the east, and protests in and around Tripoli, and the reaction that we are witnessing today was a result of the actions of what occurred thereafter on how they dealt with the protests.

They were so fearful, after what happened in Tunisia, that Qaddafi lashed out violently at the protesters. We saw air attacks, mercenaries, and artillery and rocket artillery formations being prepared. We saw protesters being fired upon not only from the ground but from the air above! Cannons nonetheless! We saw mercenaries from African countries being flown in and sent there to breakup protesters! What we saw? Mercenaries beating protesters with batons and armed with automatic rifles.

The more of this that unfolded, we saw more and more defections in the military, and also in the police forces. We saw corpse burned to ash, and some 10+ soldiers executed with gunshot wounds to the head, which were most likely executed for not following through on orders to fire on protesters! Some reports that they were burned alive, although don't know if it's credible, but there is the possibility.

From there, it was clear cut, that the West and East were divided. One major population area against another! Population center against rural! Libyan against Libyan.

The balance of power was evident and proven with one side, a professional army, with artillery, air, and logistical support (somewhat logistical support) against newly armed protesters, former military, and members of the military themselves that defected. Unorganized. But driven by passion.

Originally, there was talk about a no-fly zone, and large concern on Benghazi and other population areas that could experience conflict. I originally thought the major concern was Benghazi, and creating a cease-fire. I originally envisioned that rebel controlled Benghazi and the areas of Tripoli would of been separated by an intense air campaign to prevent Qaddafi loyalists to reach and terrorize Benghazi. As we saw, we saw the line keeping going further and further, and eventually NATO was supporting conflict in urbanized zones. basically encouraging rebels to attack concentrated areas. For one, I thought we were to limit fighting in populated areas, and maintain a ceasefire? Evidently though, there have been limited casualties, and now as a result, Tripoli has fallen.

Is it over? Not even close. You still have Qaddafi loyalists. You still have tribes. You can also possibly see inter rebel fighting. They were united for one cause, to topple Qaddafi. Now that cause has been fulfilled. There is much more that can come between and break down that unity. Self interest for one. You thought a despotic Government could be bad? We'll a armed, conflict riddled, split of more war could be just as bad. It could get bad, or it can get good. Really it can go either way.

[kato]

We saw [...]

Just to play advocatus diaboli: Did we see that? Any of that?

This civil war has been a media and propaganda war. All the way from February till now.

[Mihais]

Who am I to say there weren't air attacks,mercenaries,beatings etc...?What I know for sure is the same impartial media looked the other way when their poster boys acted like SOB's.

From start until now,it was a war without a real&observable purpose,but with lots of pretexts and justifications.I suppose the real reason behind it will be visible in 2-3 years,but by then it will be a different world.Obsolete intel.

The rebels fought for money.Gaddafi's tribes won' accept losing their lion's share so easily.The tribal war will carry on,only without the hype.

[Tronic]

Kinda makes em disgusted that the us supports despotic regimes in Bahrain and elsewhere. You think we would support Democracy in Libya we would also support democracy in Bahrain?

The despots in Bahrain are useful therefore Democracy can take a back seat.

[Dago]

Just to play advocatus diaboli: Did we see that? Any of that?

This civil war has been a media and propaganda war. All the way from February till now.

I've seen bodies of executed individuals with gun shot wounds to the head. Did I see the execution? No. Exactly BY WHO, you are correct, we do not know. I've seen the mercenaries, or that looks like to be, and also them speaking and being interrogated, which mostly look like from African countries? Am I familiar with southern Libya? No. So they could just be very dark dark African looking Libyans. I saw large crowds with those same people being attacked. (youtube). Do I exactly know who was the large crowd? We'll not exactly. But I do not think that crowd was out there supporting Gadaffi, and then you had "Rebels" in control? Beating those supporting Gadaffi supporters? I mean, I seen Rebels in pickup trucks being shot by tank shells. Its pretty easy to see the pro-gadaffi side early on, with there convoy of trailers with tanks, and logistics vehicles, and also looked like to be land rovers or toyota's. There can be no doubt about it that the Regime lost control of the situation.

Much of the videos I will agree with you in large part, it's pretty difficult to determine with 100% accuracy. As with anything portrayed on television or beamed from media. You can never truly know because you arn't there. But make no doubt about it that Gadaffi was and is fighting for his life and the life of the regime. There are alot of people, as you can see now, that are against him. Equally there are a large amount that support him. But at the time of the no-fly zone, majority of Benghazi deserted. That being local officals, and other military. I am not saying the city fully knew what was going on or what had happened. Obviously the biggest moment was when local officials and military around Benghazi deserted.

[Chunder]

From start until now,it was a war without a real&observable purpose,but with lots of pretexts and justifications.I suppose the real reason behind it will be visible in 2-3 years,but by then it will be a different world.Obsolete intel.

I've said it before - but: where on earth does this baggage idea of creating a stable democracy out of military action come from? Is it some sort of consciousness resolve - and, what is the point?

Isn't undertaking such an action a statement within itself?

[Officer of Engineers]

From start until now,it was a war without a real&observable purpose,but with lots of pretexts and justifications

I thought it obvious the second NATO took action. Qaddafy must die.

[Mihais]

Yes,Sir.But why did we put ourselves in a position that forces our hand?In other words,what was really in the minds of the decision makers.Killing Gaddafi is an operational objective.But I can't see a reasonable strategic objective(and it kinda annoys me,to be fair).Either I'm stupid,or the decision makers are and went in without one.Not good in any case.

[Dago]

Monday, August 29, 2011 - 19:51 GMT+3 - Libya


Khamis Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's son, was killed in a battle between Tarhoni and Bin Walid on Sunday, according to a rebel commander in Tripoli who spoke to Al Arabiya.

Senior rebel officer, Colonel Al-Mahdi Al-Haragi, in charge of the Tripoli Brigade of the rebel army, told the Reuters news agency he had confirmation that Khamis was badly wounded in the clash near Ben Walid and Tarhoni.

He was taken to a hospital but died of his wounds and was buried in the area, Al-Haragi told Reuters, without giving the timing.

No independent confirmation of the death was available.

First time I have heard or seen Apache's operating in Libya. Any idea where, or from which nations these Apaches are from? Also how many? Squadrons...and where would they be based? Are they based off Naval assets?


Has me thinking, it looks like this was a planned operation, or I mean maybe standard for the way the operation has been carried out. (1) Apache Helo's and other CAP spotted vehicle and fired. (Which there are a hell of alot of targets) (2) Had inlel on Khamis, or other Military officers and this was an op in that sense or an assassination of Khamis.

I mean, there could be an argument made, is it really necessary to go on from here. For Nato. To continue in the conflict, with decapitation strikes, and the killing of more Libyan soldiers. Originally, the NOFLY zone was set up to prevent any massive casualties (Obama's statement) for the city of Bengazi, when Libyan Government were amassing men, tanks, and other equipment to battle Bengazi. From there, a lot have deserted, equipment ceased, and they are now really that threat no longer exists. They are now on the run, and just offering stiff resistance in some places that the Rebels can easily deal with. Believe it or not that the entire country doesn't only support the Rebels. You still have Libyans that support the regime. There are still hardcore regime loyalists that burned those 100 or so corps, then you have other that arn't that hardcore that are just Libyans.

Can't the Rebels handle it now? And deal with it? And the international community can take a step back from airstrikes and stuff? Let Libyans kill other Libyans and finally negotiate and do it them self?

Looks like Nato won't let up until every Gadaffi member or past Military member or anyone resistance rebels is killed.

[Dago]

Pictures : !!!




Is this a garage sale??? :P

And check out this Video below, looks as the AA gun did it's job. That's good old fashion effectiveness. Except for the rebels running after them, apparently they are more concerned with running and shooting then actually aiming and hitting a damn thing. Open up a few laser tags in Libya and they will get the hang of it!

The video below is not graphic, no one dies or get hits. No blood whatsoever. Just bullets humming by and someone dropping to the ground playing dead.

Arresting pro-gaddffi loyalists or Barcelona fans? :P