Roger Waters Anti-Semite?

[Double Edge]

DE, Normally I'd stay and take you up on this, but I've got my cousin's wedding tonight, my bachelor's party tomorrow night and my own wedding on -Thursday, so I'm swamped.

oh wow, congrats

i'm not asking you to rebut waters letter.

Suffice it to say that even in a two-state solution, the Palestinians are still demanding a right of return for Palestinians to return to Israel to lands they may or may not have owned. That is what I was referring to, sorry the short answer didn't elaborate properly.

yes, this is the part to work out. if they get their own state they are free to do what they want. But they will have to take them in their part of the land, given its small i think the prospect of right to return is unlikely for that reason.

That is not anti-Israel, that is anti-Semitism. I'm not referring to the Nazi comparison, which is so outlandish and bizarre to be dismissed as the ravings of a lunatic or someone with a clear agenda, but the bolded parts sound like they could have been taken out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or out of the latest blood libel or ZOG conspiracy. Waters is not attacking Israel, he is attacking Jews.

Everybody in Israel belongs to the right wing rabbinate according to waters

[Double Edge]

The context in the background is the peace process is officially dead. Imagine Waters had been following it and turned increasingly bellicose.

The way Waters sees it is why should Israel settle at all. Peace process, build settlements, another peace process, build settlements, yet another peace process, no change etc.

Process fails, blame somebody.

There is no one state or two state solution as there will be no occupied territories left, problem solved. Therefore boycott Israel.

Does not work this way.

Calling Israel Apartheid state and saying that she over-reaches more often then not is not Anti-Semite.

Comes from here and was taken out of context and blown out of proportion. Kerry's upset too.

[Firestorm]

“The right-wing rabbinate is so bizarre. They believe that everybody that is not a Jew is only on Earth to serve them and the indigenous people of the region that they kicked off the land in 1948 … since they are subhuman. The parallels with what went on in the ’30s in Germany are so crushingly obvious.”

The Jews are dumping a “huge bucket of crap that they are pouring into the mouth of a gullible public, in my view, when they say, ‘We are afraid of Iran; it is going to get nuclear weapons.’ … It’s a diversionary tactic.”

I don't see Israel mentioned anywhere here. Just "Jew" this, "rabbinate" that. The second comment especially seems like a Freudian slip. He is clearly talking about what Israel says about Iran, yet mentions "Jews".

It's distressing. I've always been a Pink Floyd fan.

[tantalus]

I need to go to sleep, I've got to wake up for work soon, and wedding prep is taking up all of my time, so these are results from a quick Google search.

Rabbi Shmuley: The Anti-Semitic Stench of Pink Floyd | New York Observer

ADL sadly concludes that Roger Waters is an anti-Semite | The Times of Israel

Former Pink Floyd frontman sparks fury by comparing Israelis to Nazis | Music | The Observer

Roger Waters Slammed For Allegedly Anti-Semitic Pig Balloon Displayed At Recent Concert

Roger Waters may have started off as anti-Israeli, but he quickly unveiled his true anti-Semitic colors

The comparison between Nazism and the treatment of Palestinians can easily be too tempting for someone passionate about their cause because people tend to be very focused on hypocrisy or their perception that hypocrisy is present. The worst Waters can be accused on that count is being tactless and stupid.

I have seen people repeatedly fail to make the distinction in conversation between the jews and israelis. Part of the problem is the association that the Israelis are united in a cause to establish a Jewish state and expel any other religion. That leads to jewish this and jewish that, the jews etc. Part of the truth surely does rest with "the jews" being an acceptable term to use due to the fact that it has entered western vernacular, in a huge part due to rampant anti-semitism, but everyone who uses it subsequently is not automatically an anti-Semite. The failure to the make the distinction and stick with it throughout every discussion represents a lack of intelligence and composure in understanding the important difference, but doesn't necessarily constitute anti-semitism. Again, tactless and stupid for me. I think this is a also a fair conclusion once one considers all of Waters comments, which as a whole, better represent his position, from the third link you provided...

Speaking from New York on Saturday night, Waters strongly rejected Rabbi Boteach's characterisation of his views. He said: "I do not know Rabbi Boteach, and am not prepared to get into a slanging match with him. I will say this: I have nothing against Jews or Israelis, and I am not antisemitic. I deplore the policies of the Israeli government in the occupied territories and Gaza. They are immoral, inhuman and illegal. I will continue my non-violent protests as long as the government of Israel continues with these policies.

I don't see Israel mentioned anywhere here. Just "Jew" this, "rabbinate" that. The second comment especially seems like a Freudian slip. He is clearly talking about what Israel says about Iran, yet mentions "Jews".

It's distressing. I've always been a Pink Floyd fan.

The Freudian slip can go both ways, as I already alluded to above. If you judge all his comments, not just the ones that can allow an anti-semitism characterization, than I believe the soundest interpretation is that the slip is in the opposite direction, a person clearly advocating a strong opposition to israeli policies accidently coming across as anti-semite when you read only a minority of his comments on the issue.

Waters say on the matter
https://www.facebook.com/notes/roger...88037331210720

[Dreadnought]

I dont see how that would be true given the fact that most of his music with Pink Floyd talked about the dark war years of England outside of drugs etc. I would be shocked.

[Sitting Bull]

Interesting how the ADL tries to deflect attention away from Israel's contentious policies, dumping on China and Russia:

ADL: "If you were truly interested in leading an honest human rights campaign, you could start by speaking out against policies of the above-mentioned countries, as well as many others that commit actual crimes against their citizens. Your single-minded obsession with trying to convince others to boycott the Jewish state, while ignoring the world’s true human rights violators, must be driven by something other than a guilty conscience. "

So what if Waters is focusing on Israel and not Russia, China or Equatorial Guinea for that matter? It doesn't prove him a bigot, only that one man can't be an authority on every subject. True, there are worse monsters in this world than Netanyahu, but I think that the world expects more from Israel as it purports to be an enlightened democracy. Many Israeli commentators in Haaretz and other news sites have attacked the same misguided policies that Waters is targetting i.e. settlements, treating U.S. officials with disrespect and threatening Iran with war. The right wingers that dominate Israeli politics can continue to dismiss their critics as hate mongering anti-Semites but these issues aren't going to go away.

[Double Edge]

Waters needs to talk to his Israeli fans. Not just the left leaning ones.

[Sitting Bull]

At least Bibi has friends in the rock world such as Gene Simmons and Madonna. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

[zraver]

Notice how Ross slides in the idea that anyone who thinks Israels treatment of the Palestinians equals aparthied is an antisemite. Different courts, different access to services, specials rights for settlers, different access to water, different travel rights, ghettoization of the indigenous population... If its not apartheid like nothing is.

[Double Edge]

Different courts, different access to services, specials rights for settlers, different access to water, different travel rights, ghettoization of the indigenous population...

Different administrations in Gaza & WB.

If its not apartheid like nothing is.

They say this will happen if a one state solution arises. No more WB or gaza, one country with settlements within.

If no solution is found in the short to medium Israel may become an apartheid state.

[bigross86]

Notice how Ross slides in the idea that anyone who thinks Israels treatment of the Palestinians equals aparthied is an antisemite. Different courts, different access to services, specials rights for settlers, different access to water, different travel rights, ghettoization of the indigenous population... If its not apartheid like nothing is.

Once again, read what I said. I did not state that being anti-Israel is being anti-Semitic. I did not say that anyone who thinks Israels treatment of the Palestinians equals Apartheid is an anti-Semite. I said that many anti-Israel actors are actually anti-Semites, hiding the anti-Semitism under the guise of being anti-Israel.

Stop trying to goad me into an argument by putting words into my mouth. At least pretend to be mature before you go back to blaming the Israeli victims for whatever ills befall them, as you've done with the Fogel family that was murdered in their sleep in Itamar, or the three kidnapped boys.

[Doktor]

They say this will happen if a one state solution arises. No more WB or gaza, one country with settlements within.

Jews are OK with this?

If no solution is found in the short to medium Israel may become an apartheid state.

We talk for at the moment. Frankly, I can't see one state solution and it to be a viable country.

[Double Edge]

Jews are OK with this?

Did not say they were.

We talk for at the moment. Frankly, I can't see one state solution and it to be a viable country.

Nothing proposed to date seems to gain traction, so its status quo for now.

[Goatboy]

It's easy to be anti-Israel and Jewish here in Los Angeles, where 500,000 Jews live. Take my step mother. She's Jewish, and loathes the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, as do many of her Passover and Hanukkah celebrating Jewish friends. It's harder for the pro-Israel crowd to label her anti-Semitic though. That's a bit like saying Denzel Washington is racist against blacks.

[zraver]

Different administrations in Gaza & WB.

I'm not talking Palestinian governments which are at best regional like in power under a broader federal system that retains all military and supreme judicial power at a higher level. I'm talking about different rights between WB Palestinians and WB Jewish Settlers. Jewish settlers have special rights- to justice, resources, protection and opportunity.

Ross, I didn't blame the 3 teens, I asked what they were doing where they were. As for the Fogels, they were part of a terrorist movement attacking Palestinians. I don't mourn the death of terrorists or terror supporters. Residents of Itamar (an illegal settlement) attack and routinely kill Palestinian farmers and engaged in a deliberate act of ethnic cleansing in the village of Yanun.