US Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack

[Gun Grape]

I also do not believe that the Marines at the Cairo embassy did not have loaded weapons.

Why do you think that?

I dare not believe that. Libya however, is far more problematic. Security contractors have complained about a lack of opportunity in Libya which they say is primarily due to Secretary Clinton's directive that the US have a "light footprint" in Libya. The fact that there were no Marines guarding US diplomatic missions in either Tripoli or Benghazi lends a high degree of credence to the "light footprint" state of affairs.

Or it could be the fact that it takes a few years to establish a MSG Det. And thats anywhere. What security contractors contractors have complained?

[RollingWave]

As i see it, problem is not with quran, islam or Mohammad. Most of the people who are storming embassies now have not seen the movie they are using as excuse for violence. The simply don't have Internet access. Most of them don't have education to use it. In fact, i suspect, most of them can't even read and have very general idea about what is written in quran.

Problem is with well educated and powerful figures who use ignorant crowd to achieve their own political or personal goals.

Btw, can someone explain me, why there are no riot in bastions of islam purists - Qatar and Saudi Arabia?

Because it might reflect a deeper social issue of Qatar and Saudi Arabia being wealthy countries while the North Africans are facing devastating food price surge and all sort of other far more mundane problems and is in fact just taking it out on the most obvious boguy man that pops up. which is in some ways not unlike what is happening in China right now. the Senkaku / DiaoYu islands / Quran / Crap movie are only a very small part of the real problem.

Similarly, protest in other at least not gone to hell islamic or partially islamic countries (say Turkey and Indonesia) have been at least somewhat measured.

The comparison between the Senkaku / Diaoyu protest /riots are fairly decent, in other mainly Chinese state there are still considerable outroar, but non of them are smashing shite up and attacking Japanese tourist. so is the problem of them being poor first or Chinese /Muslim first in these sitaution? i think it's fairly obvious.

[Minskaya]

Amateur Consulate Video

Warning: The above is an amateur video of a body being removed from one room to another in the US Consulate in Benghazi. The body is purportedly that of Ambassador Stevens

At 0:11-0:14 one can see a man placing his fingers on the victim's carotid artery area.

With all of the excited shouting, it is difficult to tell with absolute certainty, but it sounds like one of the excited voices says "I feel [...] pulse... he is still alive!"

[Doktor]

Dok,you know very well their free will is not what matters here.

In KSA and Bahrain? Yep, noone bothered with their expression of free will, but their respective police/military units ;)

[Parihaka]

Why do you think that?



Or it could be the fact that it takes a few years to establish a MSG Det. And thats anywhere. What security contractors contractors have complained?

Really? (President) Clinton can arrive here with something like eight apache helicopters in tow for three days R&R At APEC but it takes years to arrange a security detail for an ambassador?

[Minskaya]

Or it could be the fact that it takes a few years to establish a MSG Det. And thats anywhere.

For administrative/assignment purposes, the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group divides the world into nine regions. There is also a FAST response team.

The MSG school at Quantico, VA. conducts five class sessions per year training more than 450 Marines.

[1980s]

Sound analysis

Asia Times Online :: An insult best left in obscurity
By Sami Moubayed

On June 23, the controversial American satirical film, Innocence of Muslims premiered to a private audience at the Vine Theatre on Hollywood Boulevard. Two clips were posted on YouTube on July 1.

By September, the amateur low-budget film had been dubbed into Arabic and brought to the attention of Muslims by Egyptian blogger Morris Sadek. Egyptian President Mohammad Morsi called on the US government to sue the film producers whom he referred to as "madmen". Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai said the filmmakers had committed "a devilish act". The film's trailer resulted in protests throughout the Arab world, namely at the US embassy in Cairo and the US consulate in Benghazi, which resulted in the killing of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others.

For those who have not seen the film, it is indeed highly offensive to the Prophet Mohammad and his companions, who are held in high esteem by around 1.6 billion Muslims, accounting for over 20% of the earth's population. One scene, for example, shows him authorizing the looting of cities, the raping of women, the taking of slaves, and the sexual assault of children. Another shows his wife, Hafsa Bint Omar (daughter of the second Muslim Caliph), beating him with a shoe because she found him in bed with another woman. He runs around the room in circles, and says that if she stops hitting him, "I will make your father Caliph."

The film, in short, has nothing to do with freedom of expression. It is in poor taste, of poor quality, and a deliberate insult to Islam and Muslims. No doubt about that. It is utterly unacceptable, however, that so much violence should erupt because of an obscure movie which would have remained obscure had Muslims not created such a fuss about it.

The 2006 Pope controversy

This is not the first time that such a storm has been raised in the Muslim World. In 2005, we had the famous Danish cartoons, which resulted in the torching of Danish embassies around the world. One year later, in September 2006, Pope Benedict XVI gave a speech at the University of Regensburg in Germany in which he quoted the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II telling a Persian intellectual in 1391: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he has preached."

The pope did not say that he agreed with these words. Nevertheless the damage was done and, regardless of intentions, violence and anti-Christian feeling immediately soared throughout the Muslim world. One phrase from Benedict's lecture that was completely ignored by the Arab and Muslim mass media was: "The emperor must have known that Sura 2:256 [of the Koran] reads: 'There is no compulsion in religion.'"

But regardless of intentions and in light of the Pope's subsequent apology, let us stop for a moment to think objectively of all that is happening and being said in the Muslim world. The pope was quoting a Byzantine emperor speaking to an unnamed Persian intellectual, taken from an obscure document, 615 years ago.

It is unbelievable that we still have the energy to dig up these ancient arguments, use them to arouse emotions, riot like madmen, and foster hatred. Equally guilty are the Muslim leaders who responded to the Pope's remarks, the Danish cartoons, or the current film, with embassy attacks, church attacks, and violent rallies around the world. God created the human mind to debate, study, analyze and explain. Isn't it the duty of Muslims, after all, to educate non-Muslims on the true nature of the religion of Mohammed?

If the pope, the cartoonist, or the filmmakers were misinformed, either deliberately or not, then Muslims are responsible for not explaining the true nature of their faith to the world, or marketing its true values. They are to blame for letting terrorists like Osama bin Laden hijack Islam and ruin its name. The response to the film only proved the image of Islam depicted in the film itself, which is a very far cry from what Mohammad was all about, being compassion, justice, good citizenship, sound family values, and strong faith. When terrorists using the name of Islam strike the heart of New York, or detonate bombs in the London Underground, this makes it more difficult to defend the Muslims against what was said in the movie.

A lesson from Syria

Seventy-four years ago, in April 1928, a 20-year-old girl named Nazira Zayn al-Din wrote a controversial book titled, Unveiling and Veiling. The Muslim veil, she boldly stated, was un-Islamic. If a woman was forced to wear the veil by her father, husband or brother, Zayn al-Din argued, then she should take him to court. She added that men and woman should mix socially because this develops moral progress, and that both sexes should be educated in the same classrooms. Zayn al-Din compared the "veiled" Muslim world to the "unveiled" European one, saying the unveiled one was better because reason reigned, rather than religion.

Her book caused a thunderstorm in Syria and Lebanon. It was an outrageous assault on traditional Islam, coming from Zayn al-Din, who was a Druze. Rather than get banned by government censors, the book went into a second edition within two months, and was translated into several languages. Great men from Islam, including the muftis of Beirut and Damascus, criticized her, but nobody accused her of treason or blasphemy. They accused her of bad vision resulting from bad education.

Despite the uproar, which lasted for two years, Muslim establishments did not let the issue snowball, as is happening today. The young author was still free to roam the streets of Syria and Lebanon, without being harassed or killed. The leaders of Islam in 1927-30 were by far too busy to occupy themselves, and the Muslim community at large, with the ideas of a 20-year-old girl. They had to attend to their mosques, manage their charity, cater to Muslim education, and fight the French out of Syria and Lebanon.

Why, then, have the leaders of today's world abandoned every problem in the Muslim world to concentrate on the 2012 film? Muslims ought to show solidarity on more pressing issues, such as Israel's digging beneath the al-Aqsa Mosque, for example, or building the Separation Wall. More recently they should have united on the destruction of Lebanon in 2006, Libya in 2011, and Syria in 2012. The life of 28,000 Syrians ought to be more of a "red-line" for Muslims, than the screen depiction of Mohammad. These Syrian Muslims were killed before the very eyes of the entire Muslim world and nobody has lifted a finger to protect them.

The Prophet is one of the greatest names and most influential figures in human history. What a nobody says about him will definitely never affect him or his reputation. To quote Lawrence of Arabia, it is time for us to stop acting like a "small people, a silly people," and start living up to our duties before history and mankind. After all, we have not contributed anything to human progress in the past 500 years.

We should properly write and analyze our history, with all its pros and cons, and then concentrate on science, art, literature, and freedom of the mind. A good movie about Mohammad, similar to the 1976 classic production Messenger of God (made by the Syrian-based Hollywood director Mustapha al-Akkad) would have done the Prophet more justice than the riots we witnessed in Cairo, Benghazi, and Amman.

To make things easier for everybody - especially the over-sensitive millions in all faiths - it is safe to say that critical issues such as the Prophet, Jesus, or the Holocaust, for example, become red lines that should not be crossed. A good word of advice to the Muslim community is to think big and avoid the trappings of critical articles, cartoons, or sick movies. Islam and the Prophet Mohammad are much greater than these small, really small, tiny, issues.

Sami Moubayed is a Visiting Scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Center in Beirut and the author of Syria and the USA: Washington's Relations with Damascus from Wilson to Eisenhower" (IB Tauris, 2012)

[Parihaka]

To make things easier for everybody - especially the over-sensitive millions in all faiths - it is safe to say that critical issues such as the Prophet, Jesus, or the Holocaust, for example, become red lines that should not be crossed.

Agree with everything except this. Religions and their followers have no more right to be free from criticism than anyone else

[Gun Grape]

Really? (President) Clinton can arrive here with something like eight apache helicopters in tow for three days R&R At APEC but it takes years to arrange a security detail for an ambassador?

The mission of the MSGB is NOT ambassador security.

It is to protect classified material at the embassy. Or if you want to be more precise, Its to hold the interior of the building until the embassy staff can destroy the classified material.

The State Dept is responsible for ambassador security

[Parihaka]

The mission of the MSGB is NOT ambassador security.

It is to protect classified material at the embassy. Or if you want to be more precise, Its to hold the interior of the building until the embassy staff can destroy the classified material.

The State Dept is responsible for ambassador security

Ah ok, hence the local militia. Understood.

[Gun Grape]

For administrative/assignment purposes, the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group divides the world into nine regions. There is also a FAST response team.

The MSG school at Quantico, VA. conducts five class sessions per year training more than 450 Marines.

FAST is not a part of MSG. FAST goes to any navy base to increase security due to threat levels.

Now lets look at your numbers. MCESG trains approx 450 Marines per year. That just about covers normal rotation and attrition in the field.

There are around 1000 Marines on the MSG program. Its a 3 year tour, including school. No extensions.

Because of the security clearance requirements MSG duty is the second hardest program to get accepted to. Yankee White being #1.

Those that are accepted will face a historical 30-35% in school attrition rate. While on a det the historical attrition rate is around 2%.

There are around 285 US Embassies and Diplomatic missions/Consulates around the world. At present MCESG provides detachment to 152.

SO no we cant just shit a MSG det out of thin air.

I haven't even covered host country suppport required for a Det to stand up.

[tbm3fan]

Agree with everything except this. Religions and their followers have no more right to be free from criticism than anyone else

Two stood out for me.

The one mentioned above as it looks like he believes religions should have immunity from criticism. In fact, religions deserve as much criticism as politicians and used car salesmen. Just for thinking they should means they should have criticism 10 times over.

First, his comment that this wasn't freedom of expression because it was in poor taste, poor quality and insulting. One cannot place limits on freedom of speech which suits their opinion of poor taste as then I have an opinion about poor taste. So Don Rickles had better look out.

Can one imagine a Muhammed soap on a rope like the Pope soap on the rope years ago? Or, how about this little ditty, and you substitute Prophet for Pope, Muhammed for Jesus and Koran for Bible. Adrenalin O.D. - Pope On A Rope Lyrics Catholic Church doesn't react but...

The obvious solution, which has no chance in hell, is that the two extremes need to realize they feed off each other. You get violent, I make a movie, you get violent, I make another movie and on and on which each side reinforcing their opinion about the others bad behavior. No chance in hell because ignorance and hatred are really hard to overcome. As in a Chunder comment in the East Asia forum about the young girl holding a sign about beheading those who speak against the prophet. Adults installing their hatreds into children in order to perpetuate the hatred. I don't have any hope this problem will ever disappear.

[Officer of Engineers]

I really don't care. This is the I don't care anymore at least 60th time that the Muslims claim some outrage during my lifetime. I'm sure if I added it up, it would be well over 100.

I will say this. The US has yet to do a Chechnya. Russia did a Chechnya. China did a Tibet and a Xinjiang. India did 4 wars. Islam followers don't get it. The next genocide will be theirs.

And I, for one, will be glad that I'm dead when it occurs.

[Officer of Engineers]

A personal observation: The people of the Middle East highly respect power and the violent application of power. They also highly respect another aspect of power... staying power. I will tell you plainly. The current perception of the US in the Middle East - among Arabs, Persians, and Israelis alike - is of an empire decidedly on the wane.

P.S. If you find the message unpalatable, don't blame the messenger.

The message is not unpalatable, Captain, but most certainly misplaced. The Americans are not an Empire building people. They are a civilization destroying people. They don't have to stay. They just have to kill you ... and whoever lives after that, they brainwash through their TV.

Islam may have a resurgence but which Moslem does not want a home with air conditioning and a TV broadcasting daily prayers instead of going directly to Mosque on time?

If you want a comparison, Genghis Khan.

[Minskaya]

Unless or until additional information becomes available, we're dealing with supposition now.

But I will say this in closing. I am incredulous that no MSG detachment was assigned to Libya. It seems to me that even as a temporary fix, Marines could have been borrowed from among the more placid of the 125 embassies/consulates around the world where they are stationed. Libya is a MENA nation that had just undergone a violent a bloody revolution. It was known that armed Salifists had infiltrated the country during the turmoil. Indeed, one of the former SEALs in Benghazi was not engaged in securing the consulate, but rather was contracted to track down and destroy shoulder-fired anti-air missiles. Four attacks on diplomatic missions and personnel in Benghazi had preceded this one. Quite frankly, El-Al has better security at Ben Gurion Airport than the State Department deemed necessary to employ at Tripoli and Benghazi.