The British Catastrophe

[Firestorm]

BR,
this IS the thinking of victims.

that the world demonstrates hypocrisy-- are you surprised. that double standards are applied-- are you surprised. they're ALWAYS there; every country is subject to this one way or another by other parties.

Maybe, but not all countries are affected to the same extent. It kinds depends on how big and strong you are. And considering that Israel is pretty small and surrounded by countries which have attacked it on more than one occasion, I fully understand the need of Israelis to protest this hypocrisy in the loudest and most visible manner possible (propaganda included). International opinion might one day mean life and death for them, so they have to make people aware of the double-standards being applied.

The double-standards and hypocrisy against your country might seem harmless if you happen to live in a country which is the only 1000 pound gorilla in the room and has no reason to care for "world-opinion".

that israelis seem to think of themselves as especially subject to double standards is just another demonstration of how they feel constantly victimized.

Well since you accepted that the hypocrisy and double-standards are real, then the victimization is also real, not just "felt".


Edit: Almost forgot this.

moreover, one of the reasons why this feeling is prevalent is because it fits perfectly within the Jewish religious myth, and the Israeli national myth, of being God's Chosen-but-always-persecuted People.

Well I'm neither Jewish, nor Israeli, so I won't comment on the Chosen ones part. But I don't get why you refer to "always persecuted" as "myth". It is a fact. They have been persecuted. For centuries. In many different parts of the globe. What's mythical about it?

[Mihais]

The mythical part is that persecutions ''just happened''.They were real,but they happened for a lot of complex reasons.Including,very often,an unholly alliance between jews and local opressors,as it happened in Ukraine in the 16th-17th century.

Life is black and white quite rarely.

[Zinja]

BR,
moreover, one of the reasons why this feeling is prevalent is because it fits perfectly within the Jewish religious myth, and the Israeli national myth, of being God's Chosen-but-always-persecuted People.

This is beginning to sound all too familiar. And that coming from you Astralis is very disappointing to say the least.

[Zinja]

The mythical part is that persecutions ''just happened''.They were real,but they happened for a lot of complex reasons.Including,very often,an unholly alliance between jews and local opressors,as it happened in Ukraine in the 16th-17th century.

Life is black and white quite rarely.

That won't fly anywhere. Using your logic, how may people/nations had alliances did Hitler, monguls, Roman empire, slave traders, Ottoman empire etc and why are they not being persecuted? I really do hope you don't mean Jewry somehow are partly to blame for WWII, do you?

Can people just refrain from using the word 'myth' in such discussions please.

[Chunder]

What is particularly disappointing about it? Edit ^ Posted whilst posted.

Can people just refrain from using the word 'myth' in such discussions please.

[Bigfella]

When people trivialise a matter that probably has earned more resolutions at the UN than any other matter by just rubbishing its thesis as cheap propaganda, one understands why those affected feel victimised. Rubbishing their narrative is a very effective way of delegitimising the victims' cause, you are effectively doing cheap propaganda yourself, the very same thing you are accusing the victim of.

I'm not sure who or what this was specifically aimed at, but it is a near perfect description of a lot of Israeli propaganda aimed at de-legitimizing any Palestinian claims to a state. This is the 'there are no Palestinians' or 'they are too nasty to have a state' category of propaganda that BR has repeatedly posted. Israelis have every right to feel victimized. They have no right to deny that others have equally valid claims.

[Zinja]

What is particularly disappointing about it? Edit ^ Posted whilst posted.

This part...

......national myth, ..................-always-persecuted People.

[Zinja]

I'm not sure who or what this was specifically aimed at, but it is a near perfect description of a lot of Israeli propaganda aimed at de-legitimizing any Palestinian claims to a state. This is the 'there are no Palestinians' or 'they are too nasty to have a state' category of propaganda that BR has repeatedly posted. Israelis have every right to feel victimized. They have no right to deny that others have equally valid claims.

Do you see a single word of 'Palestine' in my post? If you want to fight a Palestinian corner go ahead, but you cannot rubbish the Israeli narrative as propaganda, especially when history testifies to their narrative. You can not promote your cause by delegitimising someone's cause.

[Chunder]

This part...

Actually, I did post on from that, but figured I would just be contributing to the on-going quest for righteous umbridge.

What you meant to quote was, but left out was

within the Jewish religious myth, and the Israeli national myth, of being God's Chosen-but-always-persecuted People.

Selecting what parts of a sentence to take exception to, without taking into account of the whole, is an insult to the English language.
You have just changed it into the perception that it was a 'national myth that the Jews are always persecuted'.

Please be precise.

My subsequent post which I chose to delete, sought to quantify the 'gods chosen people' bit (i.e seek an appraisal or denial Edit: I.E establish whether it was or wasn't a myth to state that x was "gods chosen people""). But I felt for obvious reasons it would contribute nothing. So no need to elaborate on that.

[Parihaka]

:pop:

[Mihais]

That won't fly anywhere. Using your logic, how may people/nations had alliances did Hitler, monguls, Roman empire, slave traders, Ottoman empire etc and why are they not being persecuted? I really do hope you don't mean Jewry somehow are partly to blame for WWII, do you?

Can people just refrain from using the word 'myth' in such discussions please.

Well,they WERE.In case of Hazaras,as a tiny example,their connection to the Mongols still is the root cause for them being viewed with suspicion by the other tribes(and that's the mildest form I can put it).Armenians were persecuted,Tatars,Welsh,Germans,and the list could include thousands of names of nations,tribes,religions and every other form the human specie uses for association.Point is there is no reaction without an action and the idea that Jews,in their 2000 years of living among others were ALWAYS blameless and did no harm defies logic.To resume complex history to a single idea,expressed in a single proposition speaks volumes about its adherents.I've no problem with Jews being convinced(rightly so) about Jewish exceptionalism.Just as I have no problem with Zulus being convinced of their own and so on.But as a thrid party I don't have to buy it,particularly when there such tiny things called facts in the way.

Sorry to disappoint,but it does happen I believe a few Jews are guilty for ww2,just as there are a few Poles,Germans,Britons,French,Americans,Italians etc... Just as we are partly to blame for whatever happens in the future.Sorry to ruin your view,but life is complicated.

The whole idea of Israeli propaganda is ''we're great(est),they suck''.Similar to Soviet propaganda,Chinese or American.More likely,everyone is great and everyone sucks.

Now,if I were Ben,I'd do everything he does,maybe better,maybe worse,but I'd support my tribe.If I were Palestinian,I'd do much better then they do when it comes to harming Israel.Being neutral,I don't give a fvuck,academic and maybe professional interest notwithstanding.

[Double Edge]

:pop:

Sometimes a day can be a long time on WAB :)

[Mihais]

[Chunder]

:pop:

Shortly after the last post, I felt the need to delete it as well. I'm tired of these threads. I'm like the idiot that knows junk food is bad, but goes and buys it any rate, despite having vowed to disassociate from it.

All because I felt the need to go in to bat for Asty, since he seems to be copping it a lot lately!

[Mihais]

Man ,think in perspective.You're allied with an American diplomat of Asian extraction.All the things that matter in your hood.All this for a bit of lip service about some chaps in the ME

Yes,I know,am an a$$hole.Think of something I don't know about myself