Gaza flotilla blind to Hamas

[667medic]

Sorry to intervene, I think this thread should stick to Gaza Flotilla 2.0 and not on the legality of Israel or Palestine. People who believe that Israel doesn't deserve to exist or feel that Israel dwells in propaganda go suck a lemon.....

[667medic]

Oh, like the Goldstone report, which Goldstone later recanted, saying that the IDF in all actuality, just like they'd been claiming all along, didn't actually target civilians? Or the Israeli Supreme Court cancelling the Neighbor Procedure? You know, that same IDF that drops leaflets before they attack and sends text messages to people's cellphones to tell them to leave an area that the IDF is going to be operating in, even though it gives advance warning to the enemy. Or perhaps you have the IDF confused with the child-shield toting, rockets from schools and mosques firing Hamas? I can understand how it's easy to get the two confused

Dude, stop wasting your time with this guy. Obviously he has formed his opinion and won't budge. There are scores of such people including famous morons like Norman Finklestein and you can't preach each one of them.

I would rather want to hear from you what measures Israel is taking regarding Flotilla 2.0 and how to defeat it....

[bigross86]

Sounds like a plan.

I don't know what the actual plan is, since they're keeping it secret for the obvious reasons. I do know that the flotilla embarked a few hours ago or will be embarking shortly and will be intercepted within the next couple of days. The IDF and Flotilla 13 will have learned from last year's experience and the tactics will definitely change. Some ideas I can think of are perhaps using high pressure water pipes to clear the landing area, or using rubber bullets and beanbag rounds instead of paintball guns like last year.

I know that there will be reporters on some of the IDF ships to cover the event, and I'm just hoping that the PR machine will work slightly better than last time

[667medic]

Apparently some are the ships are carrying incendiaries, probably flashbangs like last time. Do you know whether the terrorists had any NVG equipment during their previous attempt. I would also like to know whether the Hamas conducted any operation to coincide with the arrival of the flotilla during the previous attempt...

[snapper]

I wonder who is insuring this loss?

[Dubitante]

Oh, like the Goldstone report, which Goldstone later recanted

Goldstone did no such thing. Once again, Israeli propaganda. And the Goldstone report is just one independent report detailing such crimes, and the mildest. I can go into details if you like, but as others have suggested, we have wandered off topic, and as is common with propaganda, if you pull at one thread, it's hard not to unravel the whole thing.

Maybe you want to start another thread on the topic and I will happily join in the debate.

[Doktor]

hmmm. You can call me close minded, but there is too much documentary evidence to hold that position, at least in my view.

I don't think there is a military in the world that will say, hey we targeted civilians on purpose.

If they hit civilians there are two answers:
- they were not civilians, but combatants, or
- collateral, sorry.

The thing is when you fight non-army combatants, that hide in populated areas and using human shields, you will hit civilians no matter what.

One can argue afterwards if there were other ways to resolve the situation differently, but they always forget to blame the combatants that seek refuge among civilians. Moreover those who risk civilian lives to save their own which is plain cowardliness are later considered heroes. Especially if they died 'heroic in the clashes with the enemy'

Don't think there is a soldier in the world that will risk his/her own life or the lives of the fellow soldiers and that would think for a second if not to shoot in the direction the shots are coming at them.

Targeting civilians on purpose because the other side killed civilians is plain stupid, unacceptable and unjustifiable.

Dubitante you say you have evidence for Israel targeting civilians. Is there any resolution from UNSC condemning that? Was there any formal trial? I know I never heard of Israeli politician or general being trialed in front of ICJ.

[Dubitante]

Dubitante you say you have evidence for Israel targeting civilians. Is there any resolution from UNSC condemning that? Was there any formal trial? I know I never heard of Israeli politician or general being trialed in front of ICJ.

Israel is, for all intents and purposes, immune from prosecution under international law, at the moment any way. The US even had to veto its own policies by blocking a resolution condemning the illegal settlements as an obstacle to peace. What chance is there of actually having the Israeli leadership prosecuted for crimes against humanity?

It's interesting that several Israeli officials have had to cancel trips to the UK for fear of being arrested on war crimes charges.

[Dubitante]

People who believe that Israel...dwells in propaganda go suck a lemon.....

And the Israeli government has just been found to have disseminated a fake anti-flotilla video. Comedy timing.

[bigross86]

Hamas and human shields:

[bigross86]

And the Israeli government has just been found to have disseminated a fake anti-flotilla video. Comedy timing.

That article only goes to prove my long-standing claim that Israel needs to revamp its PR machine.

I've got no problem with propaganda, however, aside from the fact that being on the high moral ground in this case has led to us losing the propaganda war

[Dubitante]

Hamas and human shields:

Using YouTube, I can prove that Aliens exist, George W Bush is a lizard and that the pope is the anti-Christ. Shall we stick to scholarly sources? Lest we should have a race to the bottom.

[bigross86]

Wow. That's a new low of refusing to reach the obvious conclusions from the hard data.

Did you even watch the video? Lemme narrow it down for you:

A Hamas MP admits on live television that they create and support using human shields. Spin that one

[snapper]

Sorry to intervene, I think this thread should stick to Gaza Flotilla 2.0 and not on the legality of Israel or Palestine. People who believe that Israel doesn't deserve to exist or feel that Israel dwells in propaganda go suck a lemon.....

As pointed out about above ahem! Stick to topic or make another thread.

[bigross86]

I would also like to know whether the Hamas conducted any operation to coincide with the arrival of the flotilla during the previous attempt...

I don't recall, but I don't think they did, though a couple days later they tried sending some divers into Israel, they were surrounded and captured and killed when they tried to fight back