2017 Manchester Arena Bombing

[Oracle]

Deoband is in India. They don't go blowing things up here. From what can gather our nsa is working with them. Deobands in India at least are nationalist.

Deoband was formed in India, and well they are moderate to an extent. But it's not the same case outside India. Just look at Pakistan. Correct me if I am wrong, but the LeJ, Taliban, TTP follow deoband right? Deobandis are well IMV close to the extremists, but yeah they don't go blowing things up, but that is not due to their supposed nationalism as such. It is because of the Indian police, who being corrupt, lazy and inefficient are not incompetent. They have their assets on the ground in every Muslim locality, and we all know the treatment the police gives when something goes wrong. IB also helps the state police in tackling the extremist minded Muslims amongst the general population of India. I'd also credit the many Muslim families who have come forward and reached out to the GoI when they saw hints of their wards becoming radical, those were then counselled and let off. Yep, let off. So there is fear of the law.

The other question is why Indian muslims outside of Kashmir don't take part in the Jihad in Kashmir. One, because they are normal people like us who go about minding their own business and earning and providing food for their family. Secondly, as an ex-Attorney General of India, who was a muslim said when asked about muslim revenge after a riot - "Forget it, it's impossible". The other thing I have noticed is leaders from both the communities reaching out to diffuse a situation after a crisis. Not possible in a Muslim majority country. The 3rd thing is Indian muslims realize to an extent the dangers of radicalization and terrorism, because muslims also die in those attacks sponsored by Pak, and muslims end up getting all the blame. After 70 years of partition, many Indian muslims have realized to a great extent why not migrating to Pakistan was a good decision. With all it's ills as in any other country, they take pride in being Indians.

As about Sufism and Kashmir, it is not flourishing in India at the moment, but sufies are not persecuted. In the 80s when petro-dollars flowed in Kashmir and madrassas started to come up, Wahhabi ideology started to make inroads backed by Pak proxies and mullahs. South Kashmir is the hot pot, sufisim I guess is dead there. So there is no 1 reason why Indian muslims don't take up guns and resort to terrorism, it is a combination of factors. Ofcourse these are my views and is up for debate.

[Double Edge]

Deoband was formed in India, and well they are moderate to an extent. But it's not the same case outside India. Just look at Pakistan. Correct me if I am wrong, but the LeJ, Taliban, TTP follow deoband right?

Correct. So no extremism in India but the extremists in the region are deoband. Guess the Saudis would say the same as well about wahabis. Any bombs or attacks in KSA have come from Iran. In our case we say Pakistan. We have a ready and credible deflection. The westerners don't have any. Of course it's the fault of Islam. Interesting to see how trump changed his tune in KSA.

Deobandis are well IMV close to the extremists, but yeah they don't go blowing things up, but that is not due to their supposed nationalism as such. It is because of the Indian police, who being corrupt, lazy and inefficient are not incompetent. They have their assets on the ground in every Muslim locality, and we all know the treatment the police gives when something goes wrong. IB also helps the state police in tackling the extremist minded Muslims amongst the general population of India. I'd also credit the many Muslim families who have come forward and reached out to the GoI when they saw hints of their wards becoming radical, those were then counselled and let off. Yep, let off. So there is fear of the law.

Deoband are hardliners, the difference is they haven't been weaponised like elsewhere with other hardliners. They were very vocal about saying no connection with terrorism. Not Islamic. I've heard of these people being let off, quite the liberal way. The radicalisation occurs in prison. If they don't get into the system less will be radicalised.

The other question is why Indian muslims outside of Kashmir don't take part in the Jihad in Kashmir. One, because they are normal people like us who go about minding their own business and earning and providing food for their family. Secondly, as an ex-Attorney General of India, who was a muslim said when asked about muslim revenge after a riot - "Forget it, it's impossible". The other thing I have noticed is leaders from both the communities reaching out to diffuse a situation after a crisis. Not possible in a Muslim majority country. The 3rd thing is Indian muslims realize to an extent the dangers of radicalization and terrorism, because muslims also die in those attacks sponsored by Pak, and muslims end up getting all the blame. After 70 years of partition, many Indian muslims have realized to a great extent why not migrating to Pakistan was a good decision. With all it's ills as in any other country, they take pride in being Indians.

For some reason Islamic state hasn't resonated in the subcontinent to the same extent as it has elsewhere. It seems more of an Arab do and those identifying as Arabs. Ethnicity over plain religion. The same holds for Afghanistan in the 80s too. Hardly any Indians went to fight there, I guess recruitment was harder.

The fact of the matter is the bulk of the victims of these terrorists are Muslims themselves, overwhelmingly so. If one considers the wider Arab and Muslim world. Does not make the news in the west.

As about Sufism and Kashmir, it is not flourishing in India at the moment, but sufies are not persecuted. In the 80s when petro-dollars flowed in Kashmir and madrassas started to come up, Wahhabi ideology started to make inroads backed by Pak proxies and mullahs. South Kashmir is the hot pot, sufisim I guess is dead there. So there is no 1 reason why Indian muslims don't take up guns and resort to terrorism, it is a combination of factors. Ofcourse these are my views and is up for debate.

The reason India has as many Muslims is due to the sufis. The mughals could only get so far with the sword

[Oracle]

The difference between this attack and recent ones is no need for a Hollywood style, towering inferno 9/11 production with trained operatives to get the attention of the world's media.

Just one guy is enough, he needs to be more willing and determined than trained. So the job requirements have dropped. It's impossible to prevent these kinds of attacks. Stop 99,1 gets through. Everybody gets mad.

Agree. A lone-wolf attack is difficult to stop.

I've advocated for same years ago when India saw blasts on an average of every 3 months from 2005 right up to 26/11. That india absorb them, the alternative was nuclear war. The irony that small bombs could lead to even bigger being exchanged at the state level.

Disagree. Absorbing blast the first time makes us look confused as what our reaction should be. Absorbing it for the second time generates a sympathy that India has been patient. Absorbing it for the 3rd time, makes us cowards.

This nuclear bogey that Pak has created is willful propaganda, and they have been winning so far. Have you noticed, every time the IA retaliates across the LoC or IB, the defence minister or some politician in Pak comes up with a statement that - Pak is a nuclear power. Or for that matter, politicians and ex-generals giving statements that only the UN/US can help solve the Kashmir issue, when it is the Paks who are in breach of the UN resolution on Kashmir, as well as the Shimla Accord. The PA fear a (nuclear) war, they fear being humiliated again by the Indian Army. But, they need constant conflict to be in control and generated billions in revenue. And when India escalates, they generate propaganda statements and the PA make some of their politicians run to the US, and many in the West lap up the nuclear BS. As one of my private conversations went with a very knowledgeable member of this board, even the PA need cows and donkeys to till their lands and carry their load. There has been a general decline in the West in-terms of critical thinking of Indo-Pak issues, with only a few calling out the Pak propaganda like Carotta Gall, Lisa Curtis and Chrintine Fair.

With each blast I noticed the death counts drop when everybody else was hysterical. No big explosion but a series of simultaneous small ones. As the intensity reduced they needed more blasts. And then it suddenly stopped. The reason was it was getting dangerous for Pakistan to continue supporting these kinds of operations. Not in their interest.

That's better intelligence on the Indian side due to which attacks on major metros in India have failed. Else how do explain the tangos who cross over the LoC to attain Jannat in Kashmir, almost every week for the last 1 year. And years before.

[Double Edge]

For Manchester

[Oracle]

Correct. So no extremism in India but the extremists in the region are deoband. Guess the Saudis would say the same as well about wahabis. Any bombs or attacks in KSA have come from Iran. In our case we say Pakistan. We have a ready and credible deflection. The westerners don't have any. Of course it's the fault of Islam. Interesting to see how trump changed his tune in KSA.

I would not say deflection. India has credibility because we have deciphered satellite phone calls and social media chats, which link Pakistani establishment. After the 26/11 attacks, the CIA and FBI have helped train Indian intelligence in cyber security and many times have also jointly conducted investigations which proved the complicity of the Paks. There were times when the CIA have corroborated Indian claims of terrorists coming from Pakistan and other such things. As about Trumph, he's a businessman. He's learning on the job. It's still early to say, but my advice to the GoI would be to have no expectations. In almost everything, Trumph is ceding ground, that gives the Chinese a wide berth.

Deoband are hardliners, the difference is they haven't been weaponised like elsewhere with other hardliners. They were very vocal about saying no connection with terrorism. Not Islamic. I've heard of these people being let off, quite the liberal way. The radicalisation occurs in prison. If they don't get into the system less will be radicalised.

The first step of radicalization is the poor economic status of Muslims. The second step are madrassahs. Prison-term is the final step. IMV, ofcourse. Here in India, poor Muslims have better economic opportunities than Muslims in most Muslim majority countries. They open up a garage, sell biryanis, are cab drivers. There are opportunities if they want to take one, and many do. I believe that if a Muslim can earn $200 a month, that is enough for him to not chant Allah and go all Jihad. There is also the socio-cultural thing about family first in India. Whenever there is a communal crisis, you probably have noticed the Govt calling heads of different sects of the Muslims and talking to them, the heads then talk to their communities and the matter cools down. This is not the case in Pak or in any other Muslim majority country. Everyone has an agenda and there is no central authority to look up to, other than the crazy mullahs.

For some reason Islamic state hasn't resonated in the subcontinent to the same extent as it has elsewhere. It seems more of an Arab do and those identifying as Arabs. Ethnicity over plain religion. The same holds for Afghanistan in the 80s too. Hardly any Indians went to fight there, I guess recruitment was harder.

ISIS have made inroads in Pak and Afghanistan. A big bang awaits the declaration of their presence.

The fact of the matter is the bulk of the victims of these terrorists are Muslims themselves, overwhelmingly so. If one considers the wider Arab and Muslim world. Does not make the news in the west.

Politics and money. Islam being a political religion makes it all the more easy. Muslims should not expect not to be touched while they themselves paint a bull's eye at their back. If you're hinting at the Western press being biased, then I am not so sure. I think the West talks about human rights and these killings all the time, to the point that it is annoying. Sometimes even downright idiotic, when they talk about human rights in Kashmir. Terrorists and their sympathizers have no human rights.

The reason India has as many Muslims is due to the sufis. The mughals could only get so far with the sword

Present day, you're dismissing the illegal Bangladeshis, which consists of the razakars and the bengali speaking muslims.

[tankie]

Hey zara , waddya reckon , ??? 3 c##ts shot dead , had fake bombs strapped around them , empty cans lol , very quickly disposed of , by UK police , below will be a typical dim tim libturd response to come .

RIP to the murdered in London .

[DOR]

Terrorism from a reactionary perspective—

You claim to be a member of a religious group.
—If Muslim, then terrorist.
—If Christian, then … not relevant.
—If from the Middle East, then terrorist.
—If from the Mid-West, then … not relevant.

[Versus]

R.I.P. to the victims.

[Toby]

You claim to be a member of a religious group.
—If Muslim, then terrorist.
—If Christian, then … not relevant.
—If from the Middle East, then terrorist.
—If from the Mid-West, then … not relevant.

There's a reason for that or are you going to pretend otherwise?

[Toby]

Hey zara , waddya reckon , ??? 3 c##ts shot dead , had fake bombs strapped around them , empty cans lol , very quickly disposed of , by UK police , below will be a typical dim tim libturd response to come .

RIP to the murdered in London .


[ATTACH]43885[/ATTACH]

Spot on Tankie!...Liberal values should only be for those that respect them..or put another way, evolved to a point where they live by them. Everybody else should be treated according to their intolerance.

[Toby]

For Manchester

Its a great City...there's a buzz in Manchester!

[Double Edge]

Its a great City...there's a buzz in Manchester!

Is this guy still famous

https://youtu.be/LyWfLmTcglI

[Toby]

Is this guy still famous

https://youtu.be/LyWfLmTcglI

lol, Not heard him for years...He set my Aunt up quite a few years back....Great wind ups!

http://www.stevepenk.co.uk/

[tankie]

R.I.P. to the victims.

Indeed , indeed . Enough , enough .

[DOR]

There's a reason for that or are you going to pretend otherwise?

See post # 231