Serbia-the autopsy report

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I was able to get my hands on few really important history books, that are all based on actual and authentic sources ,mostly the Austrian Haus-Hof and Staatsarchiv,Kriegsarchiv, and Polizeiarchiv, (the Austrian Royal Palace and State archive,War archive and the Police Archive) but also Imperial Russia archives, as well as Ottoman Empire's documents, dating from 1813-1815, the time period when Serbia raised against the Ottomans. These reports follow, literary by day, the end days of the first Serbian uprising and what followed afterwards.

These reports actually show in full light the key reasons for everything that happened here, since in this period the seeds of the events that played during the 1990es are planted.

I am not a very soft guy, but reading these tomes made me cry on several occasions...

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Serbia 1813-1815, the times when the living envied the dead

The demise of the First Serbian uprising, started the day when Napoleon Bonaparte invaded the Russian Empire. The Russians had to withdraw their troops from Serbia, leaving the Serbs alone in their struggle against the Ottoman Empire. From 1812 till 1813 the Ottomans started a massive military build up in Bosnia, Bulgaria and today's southern Serbia, and started probing attacks and slowly advanced into the freed territory. Their force was divided into three groups. The first one was stationed in Bosnia and had 130.000 men,cavalry and artillery, supported by the French engineers and advisors. Also at the time, the Bosnians were armed with the latest French cannons.
From the East, the second group, 60.000 strong was massing in Vidin, Bulgaria and from the south east, from the city of Nis (today's southern Serbia) another 60.000. The overall strength of the Ottoman army was equal to the 250.000 men, while the entire population of Serbia at that time was 400.000. The total number of rebel forces was little over 50.000. This military build up was intended for one purpose only and that is to wipe out the Serbs form the face of the Earth.

But what is important for this campaign was that only the very top of the commanding structure and few regiments were actually Turks, the majority of this force was consisted out of the Ottoman vassals and converts, namely Bosnians and Albanians

At the end of August 1813 the Bosnian army started crossing the river Drina and Sava, in the attempt to establish the beach head. Serbs formed a defensive trench line, close to the rivers and were able to sustain the charges for 17 days. But without ability to bring reinforcements and ammunition the line collapsed. The hammer fell on the hill of Zasavica, which was the last stand for the Serbs in the defensive line. Worn out by the seventeen days of constant fighting, without ammunition and supplies, the Serbian rebels decided to pull out. During the night, between 16 and 17th September 1813, the force of 800 men arrived, lead by the commander Jovan Gligorijevic, nicknamed the Bunny,at the battlefield armed only with knives and sabres. The total number of Serbian rebels in Zasavica was 3000 but by the 17th September 1000 remained.. On the 17th September,when the Ottomans saw the Serbian rebels leaving their trenches, they ordered the charge. But as they came to the first line, those 800 men jumped out and charged at them armed only with sabres and knives. Those 800 men fought 15.000 Bosnian Ottomans in the most brutal and ferocious melee battle of the first uprising. The confusion among Bosnian Ottoman Army gave the time for those 1000 men to retreat while these 800 men perished. After this battle was over, the Ottoman's had no resistance and those three armies, were racing towards Belgrade, one from the west, second form the south and third from the east. The first formation to capture Belgrade was the Bosnian Ottoman Army. In that charge, the Serbian civilians, which were trying to board the boats and barges in the attempt to cross over the Danube river and flee to Austria, were cut down in the cavalry charge. It was a scene of unimaginable savagery and brutality at the docks, people were mutilated with sabres, regardless of age or sex, while many of them drowned in the Danube as they tried to swim for the lives. On the October 7th 1813 the Belgrade was again in the hands of the Ottomans. But this slaughter at the docks, was just the begging.

The rule over Serbia, was handed to the Omer-Bey Suleiman Pasha-Skopljak, whom at first offered the abolition for the rebels and their leaders. He offered this just so that he could execute them but the Austrian authorities refused to hand them over, saying that they have been jailed cause they violated the cholera quarantine on the Danube. The Austrians, knew that the extradition of Serbian rebel leaders will most likely provoke the Serbs living under their Empire and that that extradition would furthermore complicate the already complicated relationships with Russia. The reign of Suleiman Pasha-Skopljak started with the massive taxation, followed by the actions to confiscation of the weapons. However, these actions had a much broader goals, since the confiscation of weapons was just a formal justification for pillaging,raping and butchery aimed to crush the will of the people to fight. However, these measures, only convicted the Serbs that they have no option but to fight for their lives. So a new uprising started on September 25th and it lasted till October 1814. This uprising served as a final justification for the Ottomans to wipe out the Serbs. Bosnians and Albanians were set loose on the land, pillaging and burning entire villages, raping and massacring Serbs whom fled into the mountains and forests, where they were hunted like animals. Prior the uprising, the Ottoman rule was more “humane” they used to spare children under the age of 7. But this one specifically targeted the young. In Belgrade huge cauldrons were brought and in them the Suleiman Pasha-Skopljak ordered the boiling of newborn babies which his troops took and then he ordered the cooked babies to be returned to their mothers saying that they are now “baptised”. The order than came from Istanbul for the entire male population to be killed and for all women to be sold as slaves. Serbs were beheaded and then their heads were placed on spikes on the Belgrade's Kalemegdan fosters. Also the Ottomans had a special technique of impaling the Serbs so that they stay alive for day or two on those spikes. All the roads in Belgrade had rows and rows of people impaled like this, begging to be killed. Mutilated bodies were left for the dogs to eat. In the 1814, due to this carnage a plague appeared which slowed down the hunt for the Serbs. But during the summer it withdrew allowing the Ottoman vassals (Albanians and Bosnians) to continue extermination of Serbs. They had new tactics developed, such as skinning, cooking Serbs in order to make soap, breaking their bones with axes and clubs, for women they perfected the method of suffocating them with the ash filled sack tied around the head and then bashing the sack so that ash could get into the nose and mouth.

On the conference in Vienna, held in 1814-1815, Serbs sent emissaries to beg for help, but their demands were noted but nothing was done. They than turned to Russia for help, but the Russian resolution regarding the situation in Serbia was rejected,as well. The leader of the first uprising Djordje Petrovic, started to make arrangements for the relocation of Serbs to Russia. However, the time was running out for the Serbs in Serbia, since by each passing day there was less and less of them.

In order to have better control over the population, Turks had to have “their” Serbs. They granted certain benefits to those lords, know as ober-bey's. One of them,ober-bey Milos Obrenovic, was one of the commanders in the first uprising and he stayed in Serbia after the fall of the rebellion. He managed to earn the trust of the Ottomans which favoured him as a worthy asset in controlling the population.

But by that time, it was clear that the Ottoman's were determined to wipe the Serbs out so in 1915, Milos Obrenovic, knowing that Serbs would not last another year, rises the Second Serbian Uprising. By focusing the goals of the uprising at the Suleiman Pasha-Skopljak rule in Belgrade and not at the Ottoman Empire, he was able to avoid the annihilation, by pledging his alliance with the Istanbul and against Belgrade, and later on, trough diplomatic means he was able to gain Serbia's independence.

However, the event that turned the tables in the Serbian favour, was the Napoleon defeat in Russia and it is the fear from Russia that made the Ottomans to seek diplomatic solution.

But this period, from 1813-1815 will be the foundation for the hatred towards Albanians and Bosnian Muslims. The area that gained independence from the Ottoman Empire was roughly the one third of today's Serbia. So in the following years, as Serbia gained strength, it waged four wars in order to push out the Ottoman Empire form its territory, showing no mercy toward Albanians and Muslim converts that it found in its path. Since the Ottoman rule was defeated, the Albanians and Muslim converts were stripped off of their rights which created huge anger that than turned into the hate. Those hates mutually feed on each other, constantly provoking new conflicts and atrocities. The US Carnagee Commision arrived at the scene of the first Balkan war, where the Serbs were poised to purge Albanians back to Albania and from that moment, the Serbs were identified as nationalistic maniacs and bad guys in the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace report, in 1913. This document was one of the foundations of the US policy toward Balkans and especially towards Serbs, since it marked them as agressive militaristic nationalists and the source of all problems. This document later on expanded into policy which lead to bombing campagins in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosovo.

Sources- Kriegsarchiv, H.K.R., Sigental pallace, Austrian Empire. (I might be wrong with the name, since there is no proper translation for the pallace's name)

One interesting note:
On June 20th 1806, Napoleon wrote a letter to the Ottoman ruller Suleiman the third, explictily seeking the destruction of Serbs, calling them "the dogs that Russia keeps on its leash".
Here is the history of their relationship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Ottoman_alliance

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So it is no wonder that the same narative continued during the 90'es with the same players: French,Albanians and Turks.
Organ theft in Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Battlesheeps: The birth and rise of Serbian liberal class.

Introduction

Many modern Serbian historians, tie the emergence of liberal class to the second half of the 19th century, since the second half of the 19th century was the period when Serbia actually became an independent state and recognized by other countries, at the Berlin congress in 1878. By analyzing our history and especially focusing on the 19th century, I've came to the conclusion that that assumption isn't true. Now, I am not an historian, so I might be wrong, but so far, all my analysis turned to be correct in establishing links between certain ideas that lead to movements that became foundation for the policies and therefore the main drivers for the events that lead to our demise at the end of 20th century.

Traditionally speaking, the liberal class in Serbia is tied to the pro-western block while the conservatives are bounded to the pro-Russian block. But this classification is somewhat blunt and it leaves some issues unresolved. The more correct stance to look at this matter, by my opinion, is to classify these two main blocks by analyzing their social backgrounds and geographical places of origin.
Geographically speaking, there are two main groups of Serbs, ones whom lived under the Ottoman Empire and the ones which lived under Austrian Empire. This is the initial setup. As the time progressed and events took place, the third group of Serbs emerged, the ones which were living in the free Serbia. So the primer for understanding the creation of these blocks is the dominant influence, under which they were formed, because Serbia wasn't a free country and these blocks were not formed by free will nor were they a product of free thinking or free practice. This lack of freedom, however is another primer, since it sets the freedom as the main goal of all these three blocks. Serbs in Austria were dreaming of freedom just as well as the Serbs in Serbia living under the Ottoman rule, however, the ways how that freedom should and can be achieved and more importantly, maintained differ significantly. The Serbs in Austria and the Serbs in Ottoman Empire, were preserving their national identity in the same way, however that same identity was preserved under different circumstances.

However, this outside framework, the Austrian Empire and the Ottoman Empire setting, inside which the Serbian identity existed, share one common thing-they both were hostile towards it and were seeking way to destroy it.

Serbian identity is defined by two main characteristics: religion which is Orthodox Christianity but more specifically the Serbian version of Orthodox Christianity and tradition. The tradition itself is a mixture of customs and ceremonies but as well historical memory that is preserved inside epic songs.
Since the fall of medieval Serbia, the only institution that remained was the church that, over time, became, at first the substitute for the state and later on it transformed itself into this entity that I like to call the meta state. The meta-state is the state that has all attributes of normal state except one- that state doesn't have the territory. This will lead to the development of the specific relationships towards lands and institutions and these relationships will be crucial in the events that will follow later on. So to wrap it up in short: this state is more than anything- a theocracy, where nationality is defined by the religion and the religion is defined by nationality. In other words, being a Serbian means that Serb can only belong to the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church can belong only to the Serbian people. Therefore, the religious identity is in the same time the national identity and one cannot exist without another and vice versa.

So being a Serbian under the Ottoman rule, was hard because the Ottomans were constantly seeking ways to convert the Serbs into Muslims and on the other hand, Serbs in Austria were constantly under pressure form the Jesuits to convert into Roman Catholics.

This is the basis for the hostility that will be the underlying context for all conflicts and wars in the Balkans that Serbs took part in or were part of but as well, the main reason for the structural weaknesses of every state that Serbs tried to form. So based on this setting, the view at the freedom and therefore liberty is formed.

It is needles to say, that this view at the same value, is fundamentally different than the view formed in the rest of the world.

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The question of freedom, in Serbian case, is the quest FOR freedom. That question doesn't asks what we will do when we are free, yet it asks how do we become free, so achieving the state of freedom is the main goal. Unlike in the rest of the world, where freedom was seen as a transformation of the society into a better one, freedom in Serbia was seen as a destruction of the existing system, in this case Ottoman Empire and later on Austrian empire, in order to create the conditions for freedom, which means that there was no plan what to do after the state of freedom is reached, which lead to the self emergent processes once the fight for freedom was won. In essence this means that there is no pretext for the future, no plans and no strategy.

The first Serbian uprising wasn't the act of statehood, it wasn't aimed at the creation of the state, yet it was nothing more than a social rebellion against high taxes and brutality of the Ottoman rule. Once it was realized that things are going well and when the Russia stepped in, guided by its own interests that were mainly driven by the fact that the Napoleon army has reached Dalmatia and conquered Croatia, that social rebellion experienced transformation into a freedom movement that wanted to regain statehood.

However, during that brief period of time, form the 1804 till 1813, crucial things happened that will determine the future for Serbia. Aside from war, battles and military part of the history, the period form 1804 till 1813 is marked with one thing that is often loosely interpreted by the historians: the creation of the educational system that was based along the lines of the enlightenment movement. But behind the creation of this institution,the Grand School formed in Belgrade in 1808, two forces arrived in Serbia: the Free Masons and the Jesuits. Dositej Obradovic, the free mason and on the part of Catholic church and the Jesuits, Jovan Savic under the false identity, as, Ivan Jugovic. With them in place, a work began on the transformation of Serbian society and those two men, set the foundations for the future that will become an spectacular failure at the end of 20th century. The primary channel trough which these influences will surface is the liberal class that, at that time, was in its infancy.

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These two men,set up the basis for the educational system, in which the future elite will be educated. Those two men, had one common characteristics- they both believed that the future for Serbia lies within Europe, but the way how that future would be achieved was different. Or to be more accurate, opposed.

While Dositej Obradovic, represented this new concept, of free man, free from the rule of the monarchy and church, educated and self aware individual, that is governed by the reason, Jovan Savic, represented the agenda that was tasked to bring the newly formed Serbian state, under the Austrian sphere of influence,where over time it will be integrated into the Austrian Empire.

This was the joint effort of state, in this case Austrian monarchy and the church, Roman Catholic church. It is important to note that at the time, things on the global scale were not going well for the Vatican. The influence of the enlightenment movement, placed more people into the schools than it brought to the mass and this new spirit of progress and reason, fueled by the excess of wealth that was accumulating in Europe form the colonies, was creating this new class- the bourgeoisie, which was motivated by self interest more than anything and was seeking ways to expand its influence and thus its well being. It was not satisfied with the old order, where monarchy and the church ruled supreme, together with the aristocracy that was holding all the wealth. The transfer of wealth, its creation, distribution and accumulation was limited to that narrow circle of people, since the rights were exclusive and were passing from one generation to another via blood line or trough will's. So when the Laki eruption caused massive crop failure, famine and wide spread panic, it ended the feudal system and with it the old order, since it took out the base for it, the agriculture. This event, combined with the fight on the geo politics plane, the ending of hostilities between Austria and France would seriously disturb the balance of power on the European continent and especially endanger the British interests, and they just lost the North America, gave the birth to the French revolution that was carried (financed) by the bourgeoisie that rejected the church and the monarchy in order to create the republic. The emergence of Protestantism already weakened the Catholic church and it was in a desperate position. On the east, the situation with the crumbling Ottoman Empire and the proximity of the Russian Empire, offered a nightmarish scenario of the rebirth of Byzantium, sending the cold shivers down the spine. So the effort to fish for as many souls as possible was frenetic. That is why it was the top priority to convert the Serbs in every possible way.

However these tendencies had one major draw back. First of all they were conducted at the, lets say, the higher level of thinking, among educated elites, but for the illiterate Serbian peasant whom gave his blood, sweat and tears, in a fight against the tyranny of sharia law that lasted for 500 years and won the freedom, there is only one true ally and true path-towards Russia. Simply because when he started to fight, west wasn't there, the Russians were. They were charging together and died together on the battle field. against common foe ,while the west was mostly cheering but never sent any troops to help the effort. It did sent ammunition and guns however.

But it was that physical contact, that made that organic link between Serbs and Russians, simply because they both lie next to each other in a grave and they both gave their lives for the same cause and in the same time. So for the illiterate peasant, he believes in things that he can see and feel and in its time of need he saw the Russians.

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Dositej Obradovic died in Belgrade in 1811, shortly after he got appointed as the minister of education. However, the workings of Jovan Savic continued until 1813 when he died. Although this view, looks like something that Alex Jones would love, I find it to be the only plausible explanation for the things that were about to unfold.

Jovan Savic mysteriously emerges in all fundamental roles of the young Serbian establishment and the main characteristic of his appearance, was that he always appears as the successor of the person that somehow dies after its health mysteriously diminishes. The only logical explanation is that Jovan Savic was assassinating them with the slow acting poison. The first role where he emerged was the secretary of the national assembly. After his predecessor suddenly got ill and died at the age of 29. As the secretary, Jovan Savic was in the position to both gather information and to spread influence, until he was discovered and fired from the position in 1807. The very next year, he founded the Grand School, on August 31st 1808. Jovan Savic was than the only professor at the school, while the Dositej Obradovic became the director. Within that same year, 1808, Savic was rehabilitated and returned to state service, this time as the chief leader of the Serbian delegation, that went on negotiations with the Russian Imperial Army in the town of Jasi. The subject of that negotiation was the fate of Serbia. After his mission ended, he became the president of Belgrade magistrate and soon after he was appointed as the emissary to Austria, by the leader of first Serbian uprising, Karadjordje Petrovic. By the 1811 he was again appointed as the secretary of the national assembly and that was the year when the Dositej Obradovic died, again after mysterious illness, at the age 69. The very next year, he was fired again from the service as he was openly pro Austrian and as such came in conflict with the pro Russian block at the assembly. After that he returned to Austria where he died and was buried, conveniently, at the Church of Assumption of the Virgin Mary in 1813.

The main reason, why this segment of Serbian history is crucial, lies in the fact that, with the creation of Grand school, educational system was built from the top and not from the ground up. In other words, Jovan Savic established the Grand School as a form of elitist institution, that was exclusively designed to educate the further elite. However, the Dositej's plan was a lot more sane and humane, since it advocated the establishment of much wider education, aka the primary schools or general education. Having a University in a country where 0.5% of the population is literate is ludicrous idea if you have the common good in mind, but it is an excellent idea if you want to design the elite that will lead that country. Since than, you can focus all your efforts on the small group of people that will lead the illiterate and ignorant plebs. So the power of your knowledge is than enforced by the ignorance of the mass which is blind and ready to follow your will. But more than anything, the plebs can't ever question your decisions since in order to do so, it has to know at least to read and write. So by this, by making the education and access to knowledge exclusive, you have the total control over the situation. Because you can chose whom to let in and once you let those people in, you can “process” them with ease. Also, once educated, the rule of those people will automatically assume the master-servant type of relationship, since that group is intellectually superior and always looks down at its subjects as lesser beings. So with this framework, the creation of the elite that is out of touch with the people was made possible. This model of education will later on became the foundation for the creation of Belgrade's University and the Academia, which will continuously produce deranged fantasies from which the policy will be formed. Because this type of education is focused in the design of elite that will ultimately form the aristocracy. So although it is progressive as an idea, the net end result is deeply damaging and regressive because it was based on the effort to preserve and strengthen the old order and thus avoid any form of change.

However, in the light of the industrial revolution and unstoppable progress, this effort will prove to be nothing more than the futile investment, designed to sustain the unsustainable.

[Doktor]

Versus,

While we were under same roof, here we learn about Obradovic, bit not about Savic/Jugovic. Any ideas why?

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Versus,

While we were under same roof, here we learn about Obradovic, bit not about Savic/Jugovic. Any ideas why?

These things were seen as insignificant by the communist/socialist rule, since as you know, the history started with them :) However, my theses seriously questions this. Stay tuned, the things will get more and more interesting in the future writings. But I must add that even today this angle of view at the subject is not very popular, since it is almost impossible to prove it, due to lack of documentation on that particular period. But by using the cause and effect model, you can do the backtrack of the events and find the real truth.

[Doktor]

I am sure it will. You are one of the few Serbs locating SANU as the core of the problem.

I know you are busy lately, no worries if you slack a bit ;)

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I am sure it will. You are one of the few Serbs locating SANU as the core of the problem.

I know you are busy lately, no worries if you slack a bit ;)

Yeah, SANU is at the core of things, it is as I like to call it, "the heart of darkness" and it is very difficult to analyze them since they are "the judges" of reality. I had a blog where I wrote about these things and mysteriously someone hacked into my account and erased it together with the blog. I have a slight suspicion that they didn't liked it.

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The elitist approach to education was rendered ineffective due to the demise of the First Serbian Uprising, but it did left a template of how things should be done. As the time went by and thanks to the changes on the global plane but as well due the intelligent (but not wise) policy of Milos Obrenovic,leader of the Second Serbian Uprising, Serbs were able to avoid total destruction and things started to stabilize. Also it is important to note, that back than, Church didn't played only the sacral and spiritual role in the society, yet it was more a place where multiple interests mixed and collided. Many of the priests and bishops in the Serbian Orthodox Church, were free masons but also many of them were under the influence of Catholic Church and its various orders. So the church can't really be seen as some sort of monolithic block with the strict role in the society, due to the lack of institutions it was more like a conglomerate that acted on multiple levels and dealt with things, that under normal conditions would be considered as the exclusive property of the state and not the church. This fusion of roles, in the times that will come, will prove to be one the major obstacles in the creation of future Serbian state, especially in the creation of institutions.

Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic, is considered to be the father of modern Serbian language as he was the one that did its reform. He was born on November 6th 1787 in a village of Trsic, today's Serbia (than Ottoman Empire), in a family that immigrated from Hercegovina (today's part of Bosnia). As a young boy, he was intelligent and bright but he lacked the formal education. He was taught to read and write by his relative, Jevta Sava Cortic and the hunger for knowledge awakened in him. The education in Serbia under the Ottoman Empire was practically non existent and was reduced to Church schools as it was the only institution that was existed. However, the religious schools offered limited learning as they were bounded by dogma and more than anything, by the efforts to preserve what was left from the culture and history. Also the language used in church wasn't the popular language, that was used by population, yet it was old Slavic language used within Church.

At the age of 19 he made several attempts to enroll in schools that Serbs had in Austrian Empire but he was rejected as being too old. So on his own, he learned Latin and German and went to meet Dositej Obradovic in Belgrade. The first contact was disappointing, since Dositej rejected support for his studies and Karadzic left for Jadar (the area in the western Serbia, which is in proximity to his place of birth) where he worked as a scribe for Jakov Nenadovic, at the time interior minister in newly formed Serbian government.

After the demise of First Serbian Uprising, Karadzic went for Vienna and in 1813 he met Jernej Kopitar,a Slovenian linguist whom encouraged Karadzic to classify and reform the Serbian language.
Karadzic was thrilled with the understanding and support that he received from Kopitar and he began his work on the reformation. It began with an extensive survey as Karadzic started to travel across the Balkans, collecting folklore, various customs and languages. He also was studying morphology and anthropology of the people. His findings were translated and published across Europe and his work was praised by many distinguished figures of the time,such as the Grimm brothers,Goethe and Leopold von Ranke, the founder of modern source based history. The model for the reformation that Karadzic found to be most applicable, was the one proposed by the German grammarian and philologist Johann Christoph Adelung.

As his work grew, both in quantity and quality, so did the name and thus glory. Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic became a member of practically every university in Europe.

Over the course of history, he will succeed completely in his effort, transforming the Serbian language and be regarded as one of the most prominent figures in our history.

However for me, Vuk Stefanovic Karadizic is the grave digger of Serbia.

First of all, one should ask simple question. Why would anyone do such thing as the reformation of language for the population that can be physically destroyed at anytime and whos future is at best, grim? After the demise of First Serbian Uprising, the population in Serbia was reduced from 400.000 to 60.000 and that 60.000 was scattered across the wilderness, detached from their homes and living in forests and mountain caves. It was effectively thrown into the stone age between 1813-1815. Does it really need a reformation of the language that it can only speak, but not read and write? And what good does it make if it can read and write, it doesn't have the paper to write on and it doesn't have the ink and the quill to write with. What is the usage of books and scrolls in the mountain, living of berries and hunted by the Ottomans as wild animal? This effort of reformation makes no sense what so ever, because in itself it is detached from reality of Serbia. And that is exactly what went on, since Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic wasn't there when the Ottomans returned, he FLED to Austria where his work became nothing more than the romantic fantasy. His detachment from reality, became the frame for his work.
This effort makes sense only if the hope exists and Serbia at that time was the last place on earth to search for hope. Squeezed between Empires that constantly wanted to expand at its expense, with the population divided by the Empires, the Austrian which made the human shield out of Serbian refugees and Ottoman which was seeking ways to exterminate it, because that population was constantly provoking its historical nemesis, Russia. To make the matters worse, after the French revolution, the stance towards rebels in ANY empire was hostile as the empires were afraid of the French scenario and all Empires in Eurpe had Kings and Queens, but also they had poor and hungry population and in all Empires there were no shortages of guillotines. Which noble head was next to role on the street?

So the fear of the old order was immense and they will do anything to keep the things as they are.

So where did the Karadzic found the hope that would fuel his enthusiasm? He found it in the new movement that was gaining strength in the Balkans, the Slavic movement. There, he went on to do his linguistic research that he printed and published. So the first Serbs that came in contact with his findings were literate Serbs that were living OUTSIDE of Serbia-the Serbian population that was living in Austrian Empire, all the way from Vienna to the Danube river. Karadzic works were actually banned in Serbia, since Milos Obrenovic as the vassal prince in the Ottoman Empire, as he was present in reality, aka he was living under Ottoman's rule, knew the actual situation on the ground and he knew that if these “spirits” were allowed to spread among population, that population would rise and that would give the Ottomans reasons to wipe the Serbs out once for good with him included.

There are two main things that Karadzic did with this reformation. First, he broke the link with the Church, Church which was holding all the knowledge of the past, written in the old Slavic language. He also broke the link with the Church as the educational institution, limiting its role in the society. With this, all of those tomes that contained pieces of history were made unreadable since only to the clergy could read it and the influence of the clergy was reduced, since in order to read and write, after the reformation, you needed to go to secular school and not to the religious one. The old Slavic language was a lot harder to learn than the common language, it was a lot more stimulating for the brain in the process of learning than the common one. So with the elevation of the common language to the level of general language, the quality of learning diminished and with it the power of knowledge, since less effort was needs to learn to read and to write. The net end result of this was that the basic communication became profane, since the way how you talked was the way how you wrote and the way how you wrote was the way how you read, but since the language had many dialects, the standardization was impossible. However, Karadzic than took the prevailing dialect and pronounced it as the default one. But since that dialect was the one he knew and he was Serbian, he came to the most dangerous conclusion- that anyone whom a Serbian can understand is in fact-a Serbian.

This second thing will be the actual grave of Serbia. Because it creates the notion that Serbs in Serbia were actually surrounded by “other” Serbs aka the brothers. From this notion the idea of national identity was formed, that Serbs are one nation divided by three different religions, Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics and Muslims. As such it will be the driving force for the unification effort that was about to take place.

[snapper]

Why was the old slavic language abandoned if it was really better for educational purposes? Is this like the loss of latin teaching today in Britain? I know some have claimed to 'prove' that learning latin is good educationally but I wonder how you can measure such a thing.

[Versus]

Why was the old slavic language abandoned if it was really better for educational purposes? Is this like the loss of latin teaching today in Britain? I know some have claimed to 'prove' that learning latin is good educationally but I wonder how you can measure such a thing.

Well, it is an unproven theory, something that my friend suggested to me as we were discussing these matters, but it does look sound. The thing is that since you have a more complex language, well not the language, but moreover communication, your brain is, let's say, "engaged" and thus it works in a different way. I am not saying that it works in a better or worse way, but it works different. Like in English, there is a writing but there is also a spelling and than there is a grammar (in last two I suck sky high). So the communication functions on three levels. Same goes for Japanese and Chinese, complex alphabet leads to more complex thinking, my friend theory is that that is the reason why they are so good at robotics and electronics. The case of German language was the European example how things are done. In Germany, the literate language (I am not sure that it is the right term), the one that was used by writers that wrote books, was used for the basis for the creation of German language and not the unification of dialects that German provinces had.
In case of Serbia, using the old Slavic as the template for the language, would bring about the same commonality and wouldn't force "unification" where each group of people would feel dominate by another in the linguistic sense. The old Slavic language has more letters and it is more complex to learn, which would mean that it will elevate the level of thinking, simply because it holds greater level of complexity. It is like a mental gym, you can get into shape by doing push ups,running and fast walking just as well as you can come to the same result if you go to the gym. The gym workout is more complex and it allows you to be more specific since it allows you to work on the specific parts of your body, if they need to be "fixed".
But the old Slavic language, the Serbian old alphabet holds both Greek and Russian letters as well as ones I never saw and I can't really tell where they came form (they look like Indian letters). Trough the alphabet, with their Greek and Russian letters, there is a bond with these two countries and cultures. Since the Serbian lives and thus the fate of Serbia was bounded to Russia, leaving the old Slavic alphabet would strengthen that bond due to increased commonality. With Greek letters, the link between ancient Greece could be established and thus the democracy would be integral part of the thinking. But as it is, many of the Serbs consider the democracy as something strange and thus the resistance exists. Personally I think that, at those times, the geopolitics of the era was to create the alternative for the Slavs living in Europe, since the Russia as the largest Slavic country would be their beacon. So the panslavism was created in order to be that alternative. I am not biased on these issues, I don't approve or disapprove any of these ideas and movements, but the fact is that something terribly wrong happened with us with the implementation of this context and I want to find out why it happened.

[Doktor]

Why no one ever thought of bringing back hieroglyphs? :whome:

You go the wide path, I'll cut it short. By simplifying the language, you have more time to think on things that matter, or to say more to the person you are addressing. I swear there are villages and small cities in Macedonia where people communicate just by nodding. And they are happy.