Serbia-the autopsy report

[Doktor]

Mihais,

I guesstimate that even if you combine all the conflicts you will have the Serbs as top killers and bottom in number of casualties.

As for the brutality... none of us wants to start that.

[Mihais]

It's an academic exercise and has it's uses when considering perceptions.I knew the Serb perception about them being victims of greater brutality(incidentally also true) and this clearly had a role in their actions.Policies are made in an office,hundreds km away.On the ground young,angry and armed men make their own policy.

[Doktor]

Young, angry, armed, frustrated, drunk, drugged... men.

[Versus]

It's an academic exercise and has it's uses when considering perceptions.I knew the Serb perception about them being victims of greater brutality(incidentally also true) and this clearly had a role in their actions.Policies are made in an office,hundreds km away.On the ground young,angry and armed men make their own policy.

Let's not go there, Mihais. Many can't handle it.

[Mihais]

Fair enough.We have a vote.Long live democracy.

[Versus]

That about summarizes the current status.

We will NOT be accepted in the EU and we will NOT return to Kosovo in any shape or form. On the other hand Kosovo is coming to us,using the same tactic as it used before, the creeping invasion. Yesterday, the Albanians in the southern Serbia announced that they will boycott the census of 2011. The reason is, the forms are in Serbian and they are written in Cyrillic, the official language and the official alphabet of Serbia. They are not obligated to learn Serbian language or alphabet. Yet they want to be integrated and have the same rights. How it would look, lets say, in the US. You are not obligated to speak and write English and you want to get a job, but you can't get it cause you don't know the language and than you say that your human rights are violated because you don't want to spend the effort to learn the language of the country you are living in. And you are an illegal immigrant. Not to mention that you want to get Texas back to Mexico as well.

How the US would react to that, I would really like to know? Yeah lets do that experiment.

Imagine that the Spain is US and the US is Serbia. Mexico wants California, Arizona and Texas to create a Great Mexico. So they start settling in the border regions. They don't want to learn English, they don't want to read or write it. So at first, they settle in legally and as the time passes by they settle illegally. They are constantly crossing the borders. At one time their percentage is 70%. And they start to rape American citizens,hack them with machetes and wear Mexican flag. They say we are legal here and we want to get those states back to Mexico. US Army says no, you can't do that and starts to deport them to Mexico. The Mexicans in Texas,which is 70% Mexican now,rebels , and form the Texas Mexican Liberation Army. Fighting is constant, they hack US police officers, FBI officers and US Marines to pieces. They have the support of local Mexican population. Spain bombs the US and forces the US troops to retreat from Texas. Texas declares its in independence. Than they move to Arizona. Illegally they form the Liberation Mexican Army of Arizona.
They start to hack American citizens there, rape them, beat them and the Spain says no you can't do that but also US should not react too violently in order to stabilize the region. So US is allowed to have checkpoints, but those check points are under constant attack from Liberation Mexican Army of Arizona. They settle in illegally but give their fire arms to Spain forces in Mexico. US can't deport them so they fuse with the local Mexican population which is legally there and demand equal rights. They don't want to learn English but they want to work high paid jobs. US says, you can get high paid jobs if you learn English, and Mexicans say, that is a violation of our human rights, you are forcing us to learn your language and culture when we have the right on our own, you hate us because we are Mexicans. And while in Arizona, they beat, rape,kill American citizens and hack them and sell their organs on the black market.

What would be the US reactions to this? Would it allow it? How would you feel about Mexicans if this scenario happens?

[snapper]

Is a sad story.

[Versus]

Is a sad story.

It's not sad, its dumb. I just wish people to stop lying to each other. It would be a heck of a lot easier if the Albanian population in Southern Serbia simply says what it wants really. We want to join Kosovo and we don't want to be a part of Serbia. And not like this, human rights, freedoms and tolerance... I mean I don't care if they join the Kosovo,in fact I am all for it, but just say so for heaven's sake. In two or three years form now, it will not matter anyhow. When the peak oil strikes. We, both Serbs and Albanians don't have the time to fool around with this anymore, yet we have to prepare ourselves for the horror that is coming and it is partly already here. The sooner we resolve this, although it is already resolved, the better both we will be.

[snapper]

"When the peak oil strikes" Call me a silly creature (I probably am) but what exactly will a rise in oil prices (supposing that's what you mean) imply for Serb/Albanian populations? Why 'horror'?

[Versus]

"When the peak oil strikes" Call me a silly creature (I probably am) but what exactly will a rise in oil prices (supposing that's what you mean) imply for Serb/Albanian populations? Why 'horror'?

I will get to that tomorrow, I am a bit tipsy tonight.:)

[Versus]

"When the peak oil strikes" Call me a silly creature (I probably am) but what exactly will a rise in oil prices (supposing that's what you mean) imply for Serb/Albanian populations? Why 'horror'?

Peak oil will influence every aspect of life, not just the fuel prices, but also food and medical supplies as well as it will hamper the financial system. All this will create an very unstable situation in the world and in our case, it might lead to something much worse.

[Versus]

So,this is about it. We are neither living or dead. Some say that the EU option is life and that the Kosovo option is death, others say opposite, that the EU is death and that the Kosovo is life. I think that it is a false choice since I think that Serbia needs to abandon EU processes and Kosovo, they are both illusions. At least at the present state. What we need is the thing that we were supposed to do right after we freed from the ottoman rule and that is comprehensive and coherent reconstruction of our society.

[cyppok]

So,this is about it. We are neither living or dead. Some say that the EU option is life and that the Kosovo option is death, others say opposite, that the EU is death and that the Kosovo is life. I think that it is a false choice since I think that Serbia needs to abandon EU processes and Kosovo, they are both illusions. At least at the present state. What we need is the thing that we were supposed to do right after we freed from the ottoman rule and that is comprehensive and coherent reconstruction of our society.

I think once the Eu collpses you will be on the upswing. The trade markets will open up and the devastated balkan Eu members whos' markets got steamrolled by them joining will be easier to get into.

Two thoughts I do not understand why if Serbia is so against Albanians living in it why doesn't it simply begin catching and deporting them enmasse? similar to what Russia does with the Chinese? Bring the people to the border and there you go problem solved. Thats what Australia does sort of. Put them on busses and bon voyage? no?

on a different note...
I actually think these sorts of artificial enforcements on countries have a snapback effect. Ergo the Eu/Us enforcing stoppage of expelling of population will most likely lead to it in the future under far worse circumstances. The problem is that it does not solve anything and creates a frozen conflict where two ethnicities keep at each other without resolution over and above their threasholds.

My feeling is that if there was a Balkan trade agrements ergo free trade between all balkan nations these conflicts would melt away but the problem is all these barriers between Eu and non-Eu members which seek "protection" for their industries and production etc... I actually see Turkey as a catalyst to some degree right now, if they can get a few trade agrements between non-Eu members and the trade is competitive to both parties there will be tremendous opportunity. Climate differences and goods differences may make it possible.

[Doktor]

cyppok,
To confuse even more, there is unformal free trade on the Balkans, those outside EU all have bilateral agreements between each other, plus all have some sort of agreements with EU where domestic economy is protected while EU markets are open.

[cyppok]

cyppok,
To confuse even more, there is unformal free trade on the Balkans, those outside EU all have bilateral agreements between each other, plus all have some sort of agreements with EU where domestic economy is protected while EU markets are open.

The problem there isn't that much trading going on me thinks.