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I never said China is a saint, but neither is the US. that fact is enough for me.
Wrong again. She was under all sorts of military and economic sanctions.
Economic sanctions stopped Pakistan from building nukes? It is just a clumsy excuse. You still did nothing to Stop Pakistan from building nukes.
Yeah, because the Soviets were helping India.
You still acted against the interest of India. Why didn't you just left Pakistan behind and leave them to rot?
Oh gee, 1 billion+ consumers have nothing to do with it?
that is just a bonus. What do you think of me? a fool? I am more smarter and clever than you think. the US is doing exactly what it did with Soviet Union during the cold war. You propped up China back then to use them against the Soviet Union. Only to find out later on that it will bite you back in the butt LOL
Now the US is trying to cozy up with India because they plan to use India as their next Human Meat Shield in a possible conflict against China.
Way i'm looking at this is a simpler version of when the Brits proposed Monroe doctrine to the US, they intended for the US to keep the other Euros out.
You could say the same thing about the Brits doing to the US when they proposed this doctrine back in 1823 and then proceeded to enforce it, yes brits enforcing it for the next fifty years thereafter.
Helping US in the Pacific. Brits sank the Spanish fleet in Manila bay in four hours. Not a single American sailor was touched. Americans in Samoa pushed the Germans out.
Brits intent then was for the US to dominate the pacific just as US wants India in the future to dominate the Indian Ocean. This is nothing new, India did that in the 19th century already. Started with an expedition in 1768, to bash up some people in the PH.
Safe bet for the US, they're just taking a page out of the Brits 19th c play book. There aren't many Indians that are aware of the history though. The ones on the left who railed against western imperialists forget India kept the peace for over a century from the Suez to Singapore right up to WW2
Economic sanctions stopped Pakistan from building nukes? It is just a clumsy excuse. You still did nothing to Stop Pakistan from building nukes.
For fuck sakes. Get this through your head. China helped Pakistan to build nukes. She gave lectures to AQ Khan. She helped Pakistan to build Chinese designed nuclear reactors to harvest fissile materials. She even gave Pakistan the blueprints to the CICH-4 warhead. That's far above and beyond to help Muslim military forces than anything the Americans have done.
Compare this to a China who left 22 of your people to drown as they please, I think it shows very clearly whom China value as an ally and it ain't the PH. Hell, your tin pot dictator didn't even have the guts to crticize China. Spineless.
As for what we have done. Pakistan is under world wide nuclear technology embargo, even Chinese nuclear technology ever since China signed the NPT. We have limited Pakistani nuclear fissile material production to the point where they are forced to limit the size of their warhead yields to just 10 kts.
that is just a bonus. What do you think of me? a fool? I am more smarter and clever than you think. the US is doing exactly what it did with Soviet Union during the cold war. You propped up China back then to use them against the Soviet Union. Only to find out later on that it will bite you back in the butt LOL
Think? I know you're a bigger fool than ever. We propped up nothing. China was never a recipient of large scale military aide.
Scaremongering. better be under Chinese influence than the Muzzies in the south. Thank you.
As for what we have done. Pakistan is under world wide nuclear technology embargo, even Chinese nuclear technology ever since China signed the NPT. We have limited Pakistani nuclear fissile material production to the point where they are forced to limit the size of their warhead yields to just 10 kts.
Your useless sanctions didn't prevented Pakistan from making nukes. this is the whole point. Why didnt you bombed Islamabad to stop them completely?
We propped up nothing. China was never a recipient of large scale military aide.
Your useless sanctions didn't prevented Pakistan from making nukes. this is the whole point. Why didnt you bombed Islamabad to stop them completely?
1) Having nukes by non-NPT countries is not illegal. 2) India already have the nuke and we liked a counter-balance and 3) We stopped Pakistan from having better nukes.
China wouldn't be as powerful as it is today if it wasn't for the US cozying up with them in the early 70s. Admit it.
China is as powerful today because of her bargin basement prices she was offerring to the world. She got rich and then went off to buy Russian weapons, not Western. Nixon's visit to China was symbolic. The whole freaking thing started with the 1969 Sino-Soviet Border War which caused 450,000 troops and 200 nukes to move east towards China. Nixon had zero to do with that.
China is as powerful today because of her bargin basement prices she was offerring to the world.
Nixon opened the US and western market to Chinese exports. If China wasn't able to export to western countries they wouldn't be as economically big and strong as they are today. Even more, if the US isolated China like it did to North Korea and asked its allies NOT to do trade with China in any way then China would have collapsed. Instead of doing the right thing to bring Freedom and Democracy to Communist China, the US set aside their so-called morals and principle and collaborated with a Communist country to use it against another Communist country. The US should have broken up China from the very beginning instead of propping them and accidentally making China into the behemoth it is today. But Now it is too late. You did the same mistake to the Islamic world, back in the days after WWII you should have demolished Mecca and suppressed Islam when it was much weaker and smaller back then.
I do not hate the United States but it has done a lot of fvck ups in the past and continue to do so up to now and the resulting situation from these mistakes is making my world more volatile and troublesome.
Nixon opened the US and western market to Chinese exports. If China wasn't able to export to western countries they wouldn't be as economically big and strong as they are today. Even more, if the US isolated China like it did to North Korea and asked its allies NOT to do trade with China in any way then China would have collapsed. Instead of doing the right thing to bring Freedom and Democracy to Communist China, the US set aside their so-called morals and principle and collaborated with a Communist country to use it against another Communist country. The US should have broken up China from the very beginning instead of propping them and accidentally making China into the behemoth it is today. But Now it is too late. You did the same mistake to the Islamic world, back in the days after WWII you should have demolished Mecca and suppressed Islam when it was much weaker and smaller back then.
I do not hate the United States but it has done a lot of fvck ups in the past and continue to do so up to now and the resulting situation from these mistakes is making my world more volatile and troublesome.
So the US lost China. What kind of fuck up garbage education did you get. The Chinese Civil War ended in 1949.
And FUCK NO! Nixon DID NOT OPEN THE US AND WESTERN MARKET TO Chinese export. Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and George Bush did.
So the US lost China. What kind of fuck up garbage education did you get. The Chinese Civil War ended in 1949.
the US is more than capable to prop up warlords in different Chinese provinces and make them declare sovereignty in their own domains, sort of like what the Japanese did in Manchuria. And provided direct political and military support to the likes of Tibet or even Xinjiang. but you didn't do it. you missed the opportunity. and now you're probably regretting it.
And FUCK NO! Nixon DID NOT OPEN THE US AND WESTERN MARKET TO Chinese export. Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and George Bush did.
Technically yes, but the presidents after him wont open western markets to China if it wasn't for Nixon's cozying up policy with China. he sort of opened the door for Chinese exports so his move had greatly influenced the succeeding events.
Ya'll can always do that from the west. Why take the risk.
Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!
Ya'll can always do that from the west. Why take the risk.
The US always gets in the way when the PH is about to exterminate its terrorist population. There is a lot of back channel talks going on and attempts to pressure PH gov not to go full offensive and calls to respect terrorist rights. Honestly i would be delighted to see Imperial Japan to lead Asia but that opportunity has been lost. Right now China is the only east asian power that can challenge the Americans so we have no choice but to work closely with them
the US is more than capable to prop up warlords in different Chinese provinces and make them declare sovereignty in their own domains, sort of like what the Japanese did in Manchuria. And provided direct political and military support to the likes of Tibet or even Xinjiang. but you didn't do it. you missed the opportunity. and now you're probably regretting it.
What fucking warlords. There were two sides and only two sides, dumbass. Mao and Chiang and the US backed Chiang and he was too incompetent to win.
Technically yes, but the presidents after him wont open western markets to China if it wasn't for Nixon's cozying up policy with China. he sort of opened the door for Chinese exports so his move had greatly influenced the succeeding events.
Chinese PLAAF Air Defence crews and American pilots were shooting at each other less than a month after that visit. Nixon dropped himself into boiling water with Watergate after that.
You know a hell of a lot less than you pretend to know.
Honestly i would be delighted to see Imperial Japan to lead Asia but that opportunity has been lost.
That is the most stupid thing you've written yet here, given the history of IJA attrocities that was done to your country. 13 year old sex slaves. 500,000 to a million Fillippinos died in 3 years of Japanese occupation. As bad as you think the Americans were, in their entire administration of the PH, they did nothing close to what the Japanese had done in 3 years.
Right now China is the only east asian power that can challenge the Americans so we have no choice but to work closely with them
Then get off your ass. Withdraw from the defence pact with the US. Sign one with China and be subject to American, Canadian, Australian, and Japanese warships travelling through your EEZ with impunity. The Chinese will not be able to stop them as they cannot stop them now in the SCS.
What fucking warlords. There were two sides and only two sides, dumbass. Mao and Chiang and the US backed Chiang and he was too incompetent to win.
America is an expert when it comes to propping up strongmen, dictators and warlords when it suits your interest. stop playing dumb.
Chinese PLAAF Air Defence crews and American pilots were shooting at each other less than a month after that visit. Nixon dropped himself into boiling water with Watergate after that.
This doesn't change anything. Nixon opened the door to Chinese economic boom. This shooting incident you talked about is irrelevant. Israel sank a US ship but relations continued to prosper. Vietnam butt kicked Americans out of their country. Now US is begging Vietnam for cooperation against China. Your country has no self respect.
That is the most stupid thing you've written yet here, given the history of IJA attrocities that was done to your country. 13 year old sex slaves. 500,000 to a million Fillippinos died in 3 years of Japanese occupation.
This is an exaggeration. You like to blow things out of proportion for the purpose of fear mongering. It would have been better if America just allowed Japan to liberate all of Asia and surrendered to the heroic Imperial Army. Now look at what you have done to the world. Imperial Japan would have no problem cleaning Asia of all sorts of impure garbage. Something America is so incompetent to do even in their own backyard. Pathetic.
Then get off your ass. Withdraw from the defence pact with the US.
But why? I think it is more enjoyable to back stab the Americans to make the likes of you more furious lol. You have no honor.
An official Turkish visit to the troubled north-western Chinese province of Xinjiang to assess reports of a brutal crackdown on the region’s Turkic Muslims could shape Turkey’s challenge to conservative Gulf states’ leadership of the Islamic world and complicate Muslim silence about the most frontal assault on their faith in recent history.
The visit to assess the situation in Xinjiang was agreed in talks with Chinese leaders when Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan raised the issue during a recent visit to Beijing.
Mr. Erdogan appeared to set the tone for the visit by declaring that it was possible to "find a solution to this issue that takes into consideration the sensitivities on both sides."
Walking a fine line, Mr. Erdogan went on to say that "those who exploit the issue…by acting emotionally without thinking of the relationship that Turkey has with another country, unfortunately end up costing both the Turkish republic and their kinsman."
For its part, China seemingly sought to frame the Turkish visit with state-run China Daily newspaper quoting Mr. Erdogan as telling Chinese leaders that "it is a fact that the people of all ethnicities in Xinjiang are leading a happy life amid China's development and prosperity."
Turkey has in the past sought unsuccessfully to mediate tensions in Xinjiang in part by agreeing with Beijing on an investment program in the Chinese region.
For Turkey, the visit amounts to a risky gamble.
A Turkish confirmation of the extent of the crackdown would position Mr. Erdogan as a leader willing to defend Muslim causes that other leaders have chosen to ignore much like he attempted last year to take the lead on denouncing US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
Turkey earlier this year briefly appeared to be willing to take on the Xinjiang issue when its foreign ministry harshly condemned Chinese policy, but has largely remained silent since.
In response to the criticism, China temporarily closed its consulate in the Mediterranean port city of Izmir, warned Chinese residents and travellers to Turkey to “be wary and pay attention to their personal safety,” and threatened further economic retaliation.
If Turkey, on the basis of the visit, were to endorse China’s assertion that it is countering extremism by offering voluntary vocational training to Turkic Muslims, it would be granting a significant victory to China given Turkey’s ethnic and cultural ties to the Xinjiang Muslim community.
It would project Mr. Erdogan as just one more Muslim leader who for economic and commercial reasons was willing to cold-shoulder co-religionists in a time of need.
An endorsement would group Mr. Erdogan with men like Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman who earlier this year during a visit to Beijing recognized China’s right to undertake "anti-terrorism" and "de-extremism" measures and Pakistani prime minister Imran Khan and Indonesian president Joko Widodo who professed to be unaware of the situation in Xinjiang.
Trying to balance Turkey’s position as a safe haven for Turkic Muslims while maintaining close ties to China, Turkey last month said it had granted 146,000 residence permits to members of various Turkic communities, including an estimated 35,000 Uyghurs.
“You don’t need to worry. I want you to know that we will use every chance in favour of you to provide that you will reach tomorrow as citizens of the Republic of Turkey, brotherly and sisterly,” interior minister Suleyman Soylu told a breaking of the Ramadan fast dinner.
China’s past attempts to convince foreign diplomats even if they remained publicly silent and journalists of its version of events by taking them on guided tours of Xinjiang have largely produced moderate results at best.
How Turkey handles the visit to Xinjiang is likely to resonate in major parts of the Islamic world.
The delegation’s conclusion is likely to come as pressure plays out on the Sudanese military by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to revisit several Turkish contracts concluded with ousted president Omar al-Bashir, including the development of Khartoum airport and a port on Suakin Island.
The port project would put Turkey too close for comfort to the Saudi Red Sea coast and challenge the UAE’s effort to dominate East African ports.
Turkish criticism of China could also complicate efforts by Central Asian governments to ignore Xinjiang even if ethnic Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks and other Central Asians are among the detainees in the Chinese region, sparking anti-Chinese sentiment in former Soviet republics.
Kyrgyz President Sooronbai Jeenbekov, meeting Chinese president Xi Jinping a day before leaders of the eight Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) countries gathered in Bishkek last month, described the situation in Xinjiang as an “internal (Chinese) matter.”
The SCO groups Russia, China, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, India, and Pakistan.
A critical Turkish stance could further aggravate problems, at least in Kyrgyzstan, stemming from China’s promotion of a non-competitive Xinjiang-based company competing for a major infrastructure project.
China’s insistence that TBEA, a little-known contractor with at best modest experience in building and repairing power stations, be granted a US$386 million contract to refurbish Bishkek’s aging plant has landed former Kyrgyz prime minister Sapar Isakov in court on corruption charges.
TBEA was awarded the contract despite lower bids by a competing Chinese company and a Russian company with an established track record.
It was not clear to what degree the push for TBEA was driven by an effort to line the pockets of corrupt officials and/or geopolitical objectives. China sees Central Asia and Pakistan as key drivers of economic development in Xinjiang.
Said Yang Shu, head of the Institute for Central Asia Studies at Lanzhou University in north-western China, commenting on Chinese strategy: “For countries that have good relations with China and have similar problems, it is easy for both to reach consensus on the Xinjiang issue. For other countries, explanations will not have much effect… But overall, it’s better to do it than not to do it.”
After vacillating between silence and criticism, the Turkish visit is likely to determine where Turkey really stands.
Dr. James M. Dorsey is a senior fellow at Nanyang Technological University’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, an adjunct senior research fellow at the National University of Singapore’s Middle East Institute and co-director of the University of Wuerzburg’s Institute of Fan Culture.
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