Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Double Edge]

Raja might have this opinion as he is a commy but his advise is sound.

USA is several thousand miles away from India but China shares a border that is several thousand miles with India. Is it high time that India cut her losses short and have a practical appreciation of her situation?

PLA which supposedly never faced combat in several decades beat combat hardened Indian troops in this incident. You can argue that it was an ambush or PLA was in larger numbers or they never revealed their casualties. That is immaterial as PLA has achieved their 'political objective' of humiliating and teaching India a lesson for trying to be an upstart.

Where according to you has India 'tried' to be an upstart ?

[667medic]

Where according to you has India 'tried' to be an upstart ?

I think that China is looking at India's collective action in recent days. Like abrogation of 370, parliamentary debates when India emphasized that we will die to get back Aksai Chin, bonhomie with Trump and Quad engagement. All this while not reflecting how China would react...

[Double Edge]

I think that China is looking at India's collective action in recent days. Like abrogation of 370, parliamentary debates when India emphasized that we will die to get back Aksai Chin, bonhomie with Trump and Quad engagement. All this while not reflecting how China would react...

I don't consider these as credible reasons

See here

What i find curious about commentators who promote these reasons is why they never mention the Doklam standoff ?

We picked a fight with China there, got in their faces and stayed there for 72 days and in the end China never built that road to Jampheri ridge which would give them a view of the Siliguri corridor.

Isn't that the definition of upstart : )

[667medic]

I don't consider these as credible reasons

See here

What i find curious about commentators who promote these reasons is why they never mention the Doklam standoff ?

We picked a fight with China there, got in their faces and stayed there for 72 days and in the end China never built that road to Jampheri ridge which would give them a view of the Siliguri corridor.

Isn't that the definition of upstart : )

So does the new constructions by India threaten China's NH 219 according to their perspective? I have heard this could be China's concern just like India's concern regarding Siliguri corridor....

[Double Edge]

So does the new constructions by India threaten China's NH 219 according to their perspective? I have heard this could be China's concern just like India's concern regarding Siliguri corridor....

So look at this map



Three three clash points at the doorway of Aksai Chin. One could conclude that China thinks we plan to take it.

But the point is China much earlier has already built infrastructure to the LAC but has a problem if we do the same on our territory ?

This pretext does not add up when you consider how wide across the LAC they made their moves. What was the point of raking things up at Naku La in Sikkim for instance ?

Clearly they are saying borders of North & East are in question.

They are questioning the LAC in its entirety. As to why, Raja offers some thoughts.

[667medic]

So look at this map

[ATTACH]48737[/ATTACH]

Three three clash points at the doorway of Aksai Chin. One could conclude that China thinks we plan to take it.

But the point is China much earlier has already built infrastructure to the LAC but has a problem if we do the same on our territory ?

This pretext does not add up when you consider how wide across the LAC they made their moves. What was the point of raking things up at Naku La in Sikkim for instance ?

Clearly they are saying borders of North & East are in question.

They are questioning the LAC in its entirety. As to why, Raja offers some thoughts.

I guess they want to maintain strategic advantage while denying the same to India, which keeps India on the backfoot. They can because they can...

[Double Edge]

This is what Raja is saying

[Mithridates]

I guess they want to maintain strategic advantage while denying the same to India, which keeps India on the backfoot. They can because they can...

This isn't about maintaining strategic advantage - it's about acquiring additional real estate. It's not even particularly new. The Romans built roads to areas they controlled, not just to keep what they had acquired, but to extend their reach and do it all over again.

[Double Edge]

India recognising the one china policy equates to acknowledging their claims in ladakh and elsewhere. Its inconsistent.

youtube comment i just saw...heh

There's talk of opening relations with Taiwan. Which is fine from a commercial point of view since they have a lot of expertise

But anything more is dependent on Taiwan modifying their stance towards us.

See, both PRC & ROC claim to be the real China and slam the other as being occupied territory (!)

Meaning Taiwan too (as crazy as this sounds) has the same territorial claims on India as China.

[Double Edge]

View: It's not just the Indian soldiers that fell off the cliff at the border

Pragmatic view.

Sushant sets the scene but stops short of advocating any course of action. Kanwal Sibal who i was waiting for, draws, aims and fires.

He has the below to say

We have to stand up to China militarily in Ladakh or Arunachal etc. Not yield ground. Fight back, even if we suffer casualties but enforce a stalemate.

A stalemate goes against China. Punctures their larger than life image because they have got away with this in the SCS and it will demonstrate to them they can't use this playbook.

Doing this is not enough, we have to open up political space which we have yielded over the years to our great disadvantage.

We supported the one China policy even at a time China was sitting on our territory in Ladakh and making claims over Arunachal which are based on their occupation of Tibet.

If we do not open up political space for ourselves in Tibet then we are allowing China to continue staking claims on Indian territory based on their occupation of Tibet.

We should open up more to the Dalai Lama and to Taiwan. Begin by inviting the Taiwanese foreign minister to India as a first step.

We should be more open to what's going on in HK. In Xianjang. And like Australia has done seek transparency & accountability for this Wuhan virus.

We don't have to do this all at once but make steps in this direction.

This sends a message to China that if they continue their military bullying attempts and claims on our territory then this is the road India will go down and put on the international map issues that so far India has been silent.

As usual this former foreign secretary pretty much nailed it !!!

In the discussion, the question is asked why China is taking on so much risk by opening so many fronts.

It would appear China is taking advantage of the present situation where the world is more focused on fighting the pandemic.

This pattern of behaviour coincides with the last financial crisis where China starts to take a new assertive direction. Back then they saw the US was dealing with economic problems like others and this created space for their mischief in the region.

As a result of their mishandling and mendacity of the disease and consequent loss of global trust they figure they don't have much to lose pursuing an aggressive expansionist policy.

[667medic]

youtube comment i just saw...heh

There's talk of opening relations with Taiwan. Which is fine from a commercial point of view since they have a lot of expertise

But anything more is dependent on Taiwan modifying their stance towards us.

See, both PRC & ROC claim to be the real China and slam the other as being occupied territory (!)

Meaning Taiwan too (as crazy as this sounds) has the same territorial claims on India as China.

You should check out the official ROC map, they have pretty much included several areas from other countries, it's funny. When KMT was in power they would endorse PRC's territorial claims.

Having said that, it wouldn't harm having low level contacts...

[667medic]

Sushant stops short of advocating any course of action. Kanwal Sibal who i was waiting for, draws, aims and fires.

He has the below to say



As usual this former foreign secretary pretty much nailed it !!!

In the discussion, the question is asked why China is taking on so much risk by opening so many fronts.

It would appear China is taking advantage of the present situation where the world is more focused on fighting the pandemic.

This pattern of behaviour coincides with the last financial crisis where China starts to take a new assertive direction. Back then they saw the US was dealing with economic problems like others and this created space for their mischief in the region.

As a result of their mishandling and mendacity of the disease and consequent loss of global trust they figure they don't have much to lose pursuing an aggressive expansionist policy.

Engaging Taiwan is fine as long as there is a method to it. There must be sincerity in engagement and it must not degenerate into a seasonal affair like how Iran does with India when it gets slammed internationally, making some soothing statements regarding Chhabar port and then nothing after that. Engagement can be like invitation in a non-official capacity for some event but given wide publicity.

I believe that with the Dalai Lama, it is more tricky. PRC can light up the North East with insurgencies, even if Myanmar is willing to help India. Remember that several areas in Myanmar are autonomous and controlled by ethnic Chinese warlords, the largest organization being the United Wa State Army, who are supposedly armed by China. But it should be interesting to rename existing units and also induct new recruits to form Tibetan Scouts and place them on the border.


Again I am saying that Indian action must be well planned and not knee jerk. Otherwise better off cutting losses short....

[667medic]

BTW does anyone have satellite pictures showing the incident location WRT to LAC. Both Chinese and Indian statements accuse each other of intrusion. I have been hanging out at CDF over the past couple of days to get their viewpoint, especially pictures but all I got was insult and abuse. Sadly it looks like CDF has degenerated to the level of BRF....

[Double Edge]

BTW does anyone have satellite pictures showing the incident location WRT to LAC. Both Chinese and Indian statements accuse each other of intrusion. I have been hanging out at CDF over the past couple of days to get their viewpoint, especially pictures but all I got was insult and abuse. Sadly it looks like CDF has degenerated to the level of BRF....

Did you check the ones in the IISS article



Higher resolution images

01 PLA tank company and artillery north of Gogra

02 PLA base Kongka pass

03 PLA Base Galwan valley

[Oracle]