Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Funtastic]

South north is dead.

Since When?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._136657215.htm

EIJING, Oct. 3 (Xinhua) -- Some 53.1 million people in northern China have benefited from the country's massive water diversion project which has so far transferred 10 billion cubic meters of water from the south to the draught-prone north, authorities announced Tuesday.
The water pumped from the Yangtze River has gone to Beijing, Tianjin and the provinces of Henan and Hebei along the middle route of the water diversion project, according to the South-to-North Water Diversion Office under the State Council.
The middle route of the project carries water through canals and pipes from Danjiangkou reservoir in central China's Hubei Province. It came into operation in late 2014.
The project has supplied 2.7 billion cubic meters of water to Beijing, serving 11 million people.
Currently about 70 percent of Beijing's water supply comes from the project. The city's per capita water resources have increased from 100 to 150 cubic meters. Previously the city's water supply came mainly from underground water.
Tianjin got 2.2 billion cubic meters of water while Henan and Hebei provinces got 3.5 billion cubic meters of water and 1.1 billion cubic meters of water respectively.
Officials with the office said the project has played "an indispensable strategic role" in helping the north ease water shortage, improve water quality and ecology, build a resource-conserving society and prevent natural disasters.

[Funtastic]

Yes and it is not capable of power projection out in the open seas. Not yet.

Patience its coming and better than anything the Indian Navy has

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphje...ia-and-maybe-t

New Chinese Navy Destroyer Can Best Japan, India And Maybe The United States




Ralph Jennings , CONTRIBUTOR

The expansion of China’s military is no secret. Beijing raised the People’s Liberation Army budget by 7% this year, typical of its annual increases. Late last year it floated one aircraft carrier into the open Pacific and in April unveiled a domestically built aircraft carrier, its second in the fleet. On Wednesday the PLA navy announced it had finished work on a destroyer warship that can displace 10,000 tons, according to the state-run China Daily news website.

This is a particularly major advance. The extra-hardy, domestically built destroyer not only helps Beijing double down on its disputed claims in the East and South China seas but also gives it new deterrent weight against its most powerful Asian rivals such as Japan and India.

The destroyer launched Wednesday in Shanghai with air defense, anti-missile, anti-ship and anti-submarine weapons that can outdo India’s Project-15B Visakhapatnam destroyers, according to Indian media reports. India's ship can displace 8,200 tons of military hardware when fully armed and can carry 50 missiles. China’s destroyer, a type of ship that can start battles as well as block shots fired first, may also outrank Japan’s destroyers, two maritime experts told me on Thursday.


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"They are making serious advances," says Euan Graham, international security director with the Lowy Institute for International Policy in Sydney. "If you throw enough money at any problem you gain ground."

In 2000 Japan’s defense agency maritime unit began building Atago-class destroyers with load displacement of more than 10,000 tons. The Japanese destroyer is equipped to handle the Aegis combat system developed in the United States to track and guide offensive missiles.


"The Ageis system on the Japanese destroyers, that’s an American system, so we know at least that is proven," Graham says. "I think the point is the Chinese are newer to the game here."

Speaking of the United States, China’s ship dubbed a Type 055 may also be able to vie with U.S. naval vessels, says Alexander Huang, strategic studies professor at Tamkang University in Taiwan. American Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers are built for weight displacement of 8,315 to 9,200 tons. “In a similar class, Japan’s is bigger than the Arleigh Burke, the Republic of Korea had one that’s bigger than Japan’s and now China has built a bigger one,” Huang says. It can independently do combat in the air and water, he says.

China probably plans neither to attack anyone nor be attacked. The Communist leadership prefers talks by a wide margin to anchor its claims to the South China Sea. However, Beijing resents Indian influence in nearby waters. Its vessels sometimes venture close to parts of the Japanese-controlled East China Sea that Beijing calls its own, but analysts usually call those forays PR moves to remind everyone that China hasn’t given up.

The Chinese destroyer, set now for sailing and mooring tests, represents a “milestone” for the PLA, China Daily says. It’s bigger than China's previous Type 052D destroyers, which could displace 7,000 tons and “observers…call it one of the largest and mightiest of its kind in the world,” claims the site.

[Officer of Engineers]

New Chinese Navy Destroyer Can Best Japan, India And Maybe The United States

A dumbass article by a political reporter referencing two "maritime experts" who are no experts at all. Graham's bio and Huang's bio at their respective websites claim no such expertise and neither had served in any navy nor were they ship building experts.

The only thing that stated may rival Japanese and American ships is the tonnage. No reference has been made to any Chinese electronic and weapons suites that match Japanese or American systems.

I would not toute Chinese advantages based upon this garbage article.

[Funtastic]

A dumbass article by a political reporter referencing two "maritime experts" who are no experts at all. Graham's bio and Huang's bio at their respective websites claim no such expertise and neither had served in any navy nor were they ship building experts.

The only thing that stated may rival Japanese and American ships is the tonnage. No reference has been made to any Chinese electronic and weapons suites that match Japanese or American systems.

I would not toute Chinese advantages based upon this garbage article.

She does have more missile cells than the *** Atago classIve read a fair bit about it and comments from other military forums by knowledgable observers who read chinese publications and comments made by ex US sailers suggested that in the hands of welltrained crew she could aquit her self well. Certainly more than anything the Indians are capable of putting up. That is if they dont sink them as they try to launch them.Her space and electrical power output suggest the chinese may even consider a rail gun at a later stage.

My sincerest apologies if Im mistaken, A few years ago, did you not doubt that China could rebuild the now named Liaoning? Youre right about American commentators though. The American commentater Fischer I think was his name got it wrong when he suggested its top speed she could make because its engines were crap, was considerably less than what the Taiwanese said she was doing, which was something like 30knots for hours.

[Oracle]

RELAX: CHINA'S FIRST AIRCRAFT CARRIER IS A PIECE OF JUNK

A bit of comparison.

[Officer of Engineers]

She does have more missile cells than the *** Atago classIve read a fair bit about it and comments from other military forums by knowledgable observers who read chinese publications and comments made by ex US sailers suggested that in the hands of welltrained crew she could aquit her self well.

Not by ex US sailors that I read, most notably, the Late Good Capt DesertSWO. What is obviously missing from Chinese ships are damage control systems and training. They're one shot wonders. They only have one tactic. Rush into range and fire everything they've got and run like hell, hoping to get out of range before they're sunk.

My sincerest apologies if Im mistaken, A few years ago, did you not doubt that China could rebuild the now named Liaoning? Youre right about American commentators though. The American commentater Fischer I think was his name got it wrong when he suggested its top speed she could make because its engines were crap, was considerably less than what the Taiwanese said she was doing, which was something like 30knots for hours.

My assesement still stands. As of today, the LIAONING, is not combat ready nor would she ever be. Aside from the obvious lack of damage control systems, she has hanger space for 3 aircrafts which means that maintenance must be carried out on deck for the majority of her aircrafts. Under combat operations, that is a disaster bound to happen.

Let's put it this way. Do you see anything that resembles a net to catch damage aircrafts?

[Oracle]

Sir, what are you thinking when you assess damage control systems? Fire, or say a leak which results in flood, collision maybe which is higly unlikely due to the size of an AC. The LIAONING is on the seas, so there would be people on board for those types of incidents. And why would the LIAONING never be combat ready? They have the money and can make necessary purchases/modifications or build it themselves. Or is it about specialised radars and anti-ASM measures that the PLAN doesn't have expertise on. They are building their defenses on an industrial scale, technology might be behind the US, but they are building a lot.

[Double Edge]

Since When?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._136657215.htm

EIJING, Oct. 3 (Xinhua) -- Some 53.1 million people in northern China have benefited from the country's massive water diversion project which has so far transferred 10 billion cubic meters of water from the south to the draught-prone north, authorities announced Tuesday.
The water pumped from the Yangtze River has gone to Beijing, Tianjin and the provinces of Henan and Hebei along the middle route of the water diversion project, according to the South-to-North Water Diversion Office under the State Council.
The middle route of the project carries water through canals and pipes from Danjiangkou reservoir in central China's Hubei Province. It came into operation in late 2014.
The project has supplied 2.7 billion cubic meters of water to Beijing, serving 11 million people.
Currently about 70 percent of Beijing's water supply comes from the project. The city's per capita water resources have increased from 100 to 150 cubic meters. Previously the city's water supply came mainly from underground water.
Tianjin got 2.2 billion cubic meters of water while Henan and Hebei provinces got 3.5 billion cubic meters of water and 1.1 billion cubic meters of water respectively.
Officials with the office said the project has played "an indispensable strategic role" in helping the north ease water shortage, improve water quality and ecology, build a resource-conserving society and prevent natural disasters.

Did you listen to what Dr. H said ?



Also 4 dams to be built on the yarlung but only Zangmu was built. where are the other 3 ?

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.178...1.77414064t,0r

See the plans from 2003

[Double Edge]

[Oracle]

I think you and me are having basic communication problem on this issue.

No, its not the man made dams that are the problem.

Don't know how to access this paper but the abstract is informative. Really need to see this paper : (

I did not say man made dams are an issue. It infact helps, if properly planned and built.

Earthquake causes a landslide which creates a natural dam, water accumulates and bursts the dam leading to a huge release which then causes floods downstream

Forget what you have read. This scenario I have seen myself. One thing I would like to add is - landslides are a common thing in my place, and hilly rivers are narrow, therefore not much mud blocks the river, and even if it blocks, the mud is soft and not enough to continue blocking the path of water to create a havoc downstream. Brahmaputra is a different case. Earthquake and subsequent landslide won't be able to block it's path.

The Chinese would have to dynamite their dams to cause similar destruction. When their dams fill they will be controlled releases, insufficient to cause a rise of 50-100 feet rise in water level, unless an earthquake destroys their dam

Correct. But then you have to take into account monsoon on the Indian side. Mind you, the Brahmaputra has a steep descent while entering Arunachal, and then continues its journey to the plains of Assam. PLAINS of Assam. Monsoon is already dangerous in the NE, China releasing even controlled amount of water multiples the destruction.

Google earth link doesn't work.

[Double Edge]

Google earth link doesn't work.

Where does it take you ?

i posted two links one of the zangmu dam and the other of the border. It's fun to do a fly over the river

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir, what are you thinking when you assess damage control systems? Fire, or say a leak which results in flood, collision maybe which is higly unlikely due to the size of an AC. The LIAONING is on the seas, so there would be people on board for those types of incidents. And why would the LIAONING never be combat ready? They have the money and can make necessary purchases/modifications or build it themselves. Or is it about specialised radars and anti-ASM measures that the PLAN doesn't have expertise on. They are building their defenses on an industrial scale, technology might be behind the US, but they are building a lot.

I suggest you search this forum for the Late Good Capt (N) DesertSWO's post. His posts would give you detailed insight on the shortcomings of Soviet designs and that's exactly what the Chinese carriers are, Soviet designs.

Among the things to look for, fire extinquishers where there should be fire hydrants (red pipes). Actually, the lack of red pipes is astounding and that cannot be retrofitted. Not without redesigning the ship hull and wiring and piping. Western ship design have historical experience that cannot be replicated by reading books. Failure taught important lessons that was put into later designs, most notably, the failure of thin hulls (so that the anti-ship missile would do a through and through) during the Falklands War.

As a result, damage control starts with the initial designs just as important hull and propalsion and not as an afterthought. Soviet ships deals with damage control as an afterthought. Primary attention was given to weapons.

Western ships are expected to take a hit and stay in the fight. Not so with the LIAONING. She's not designed to receive an incoming distressed bird while having a full aircraft compliment on deck. Western carriers would clear the flight deck in such an emergencies in case the incoming bird is going to burst into a fireball and tear into other birds on deck. There's no place for the LIAONING birds to go if there's an incoming distressed bird.

[Oracle]

Where does it take you ?

i posted two links one of the zangmu dam and the other of the border. It's fun to do a fly over the river

Loads upto what is there in the pic, nothing happens after that.

[Funtastic]

I suggest you search this forum for the Late Good Capt (N) DesertSWO's post. His posts would give you detailed insight on the shortcomings of Soviet designs and that's exactly what the Chinese carriers are, Soviet designs.

Among the things to look for, fire extinquishers where there should be fire hydrants (red pipes). Actually, the lack of red pipes is astounding and that cannot be retrofitted. Not without redesigning the ship hull and wiring and piping. Western ship design have historical experience that cannot be replicated by reading books. Failure taught important lessons that was put into later designs, most notably, the failure of thin hulls (so that the anti-ship missile would do a through and through) during the Falklands War.

As a result, damage control starts with the initial designs just as important hull and propalsion and not as an afterthought. Soviet ships deals with damage control as an afterthought. Primary attention was given to weapons.

Western ships are expected to take a hit and stay in the fight. Not so with the LIAONING. She's not designed to receive an incoming distressed bird while having a full aircraft compliment on deck. Western carriers would clear the flight deck in such an emergencies in case the incoming bird is going to burst into a fireball and tear into other birds on deck. There's no place for the LIAONING birds to go if there's an incoming distressed bird.

The Forrestal Tragedy pictures what your describing, Maybe the PLAN have watched it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJKSVj8ZvNQ




I guess the late Captain….. gleaned this info from casual chit chat and observation during friendly port visits of Chinese ships.
I have probably seen hundreds of publicity photos and videos of Chinese ship crews going about their business such as manning HMG’s fingers on the launch button of a missile or staring intently into their monitors or binoculars but none of them showing them doing fire drill and such things because those aspects are not so stirring.

Secondly these are a new class and generation of ship and perhaps they come with a different design and operating philosophy and we have yet to get a really good look as a lot of the time they were built under cover.

[Funtastic]

I suggest you search this forum for the Late Good Capt (N) DesertSWO's post. His posts would give you detailed insight on the shortcomings of Soviet designs and that's exactly what the Chinese carriers are, Soviet designs.

Among the things to look for, fire extinquishers where there should be fire hydrants (red pipes). Actually, the lack of red pipes is astounding and that cannot be retrofitted. Not without redesigning the ship hull and wiring and piping. Western ship design have historical experience that cannot be replicated by reading books. Failure taught important lessons that was put into later designs, most notably, the failure of thin hulls (so that the anti-ship missile would do a through and through) during the Falklands War.

As a result, damage control starts with the initial designs just as important hull and propalsion and not as an afterthought. Soviet ships deals with damage control as an afterthought. Primary attention was given to weapons.

Western ships are expected to take a hit and stay in the fight. Not so with the LIAONING. She's not designed to receive an incoming distressed bird while having a full aircraft compliment on deck. Western carriers would clear the flight deck in such an emergencies in case the incoming bird is going to burst into a fireball and tear into other birds on deck. There's no place for the LIAONING birds to go if there's an incoming distressed bird.

deleted double post