China angers neighbours with sea claims on new passports

[kyli]

I can take the damn moral high ground because I am not the one who took all those islands in the 1800's. Those people are dead. You can not lay any guilt on me for what happened over 100 years ago. It is just that simple and so I can pass judgment.

By the way since you keep throwing this out there why don't you name all those islands around the world that western nations still control. You keep making a blanket statement to give you cover for what is happening in a modern era which you are conveniently ignoring. So start your list controlling nation by controlling nation. Oh, and you just need to list the true islands, taken by force, and not rocks, with barnacles, masquerading as islands.

A simple google search of Islands in the world will get you the list of islands and their administrators. You don't need me to find them for you.

Your logic is as long as you are not the one who did it, then it is justifiable. Alright, the Chinese are late to the game. Therefore, if it took control of those islands now, one hundred years later the Chinese could point the finger at another third world nation "We could do this because it happened one hundred years ago, but the world has changed now, therefore; you are a big bad guy". We are the saint; we are the savior; we are the good guy.


It is easy to pick fault with other people, but it is not easy to admit one own fault. You can play your moral high ground, but this is what I call being hypocritical.

You so call the modern era didn't stop the tragic, arrogance, injustice then happened in the world everyday. Countries were invaded without much justification. Dictators and Kings still are getting away with ruthless ruling. The world is still governed by one rule. Power. The power that derived from the most powerful military in the world and the order that emerged after WWII and Cold War.

[tbm3fan]

A simple google search of Islands in the world will get you the list of islands and their administrators. You don't need me to find them for you.

He who makes the claim does the work to back it up. Besides we all then get the chance to see what you include.

Your logic is as long as you are not the one who did it, then it is justifiable. Alright, the Chinese are late to the game. Therefore, if it took control of those islands now, one hundred years later the Chinese could point the finger at another third world nation "We could do this because it happened one hundred years ago, but the world has changed now, therefore; you are a big bad guy". We are the saint; we are the savior; we are the good guy.

I'm Irish! I get a pass since Ireland wasn't involved in any of this. My relatives didn't leave Ireland until 1900. Those Brits were big bullies.

It is easy to pick fault with other people, but it is not easy to admit one own fault. You can play your moral high ground, but this is what I call being hypocritical.

See above about being Irish

You so call the modern era didn't stop the tragic, arrogance, injustice then happened in the world everyday. Countries were invaded without much justification. Dictators and Kings still are getting away with ruthless ruling. The world is still governed by one rule. Power. The power that derived from the most powerful military in the world and the order that emerged after WWII and Cold War.

Ah, and now we really get down to brass tacks don't we? It is clear that you believe that China has the right to use her formidable military power to assert her claims to what she believes is hers, rightfully or not. Don't beat around the bush and just admit that is the case. Therefore there should be no problem with the United States asserting her interests in the South Pacific around her allies. Pro quid pro...

[kyli]

He who makes the claim does the work to back it up. Besides we all then get the chance to see what you include.

As a Hong Konger which was a former colony of the UK, I am sincerely hoping you are not playing dumb.
Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Falkland Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of islands in the Atlantic Ocean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pacific Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a partial list of islands. Go ahead and justify every islands that are hundred miles from the nation that controlled them.

I'm Irish! I get a pass since Ireland wasn't involved in any of this. My relatives didn't leave Ireland until 1900. Those Brits were big bullies.

So you are not Americans.

See above about being Irish

See Above about.

Ah, and now we really get down to brass tacks don't we? It is clear that you believe that China has the right to use her formidable military power to assert her claims to what she believes is hers, rightfully or not. Don't beat around the bush and just admit that is the case. Therefore there should be no problem with the United States asserting her interests in the South Pacific around her allies. Pro quid pro...

Who are stopping the United States from getting what she wants? Who can stop the United States from doing what it please? Who is complaining now? Or Am I mistaken? I thought you are the one who complain the bad boy Chinese and the evil commies. President Obama announced a few years ago that America is returning to Asia to assert its power and demonstrate to the Chinese that it is the number one world power already. So Americans are already doing what you are implying that she would do.

Lastly, you don't know me. Don't assume something that you don't know. More importantly, I never hide from anything. If you want me to state my position, you just simply have to ask.

It is funny two decades ago. When the Chinese Navy is pathetic, when Both Vietnam And Philippines were chasing and sinking the Chinese fishing boats to assert their authority. Nobody says a world. Today, the table has turned. Now, it is everyone's business. The big bad evil commies.

[Parihaka]

As a Hong Konger which was a former colony of the US,

Actually it was part colony (conquest) and part leased by the United Kingdom, not the US. When the lease expired the UK and China also negotiated a return of the original colony.

[Doktor]

Just for the giggles...

Australia
Ashmore and Cartier Islands
Territory of Australia
Christmas Island Territory of Australia
Cocos (Keeling) Islands Territory of Australia
Coral Sea Islands Territory of Australia
Heard and McDonald Islands Territory of Australia
Norfolk Island Territory of Australia

France
Bassas da India
Possession of France, administered from R�union, claimed by Madagascar.
Clipperton Island Possession of France
Europa Island Possession of France, administered from R�union, claimed by Madagascar (no permanent population).
French Guiana Overseas Department of France
French Polynesia Overseas Lands of France
French Southern and Antarctic Lands Overseas territory of France
Glorioso Islands Possession of France, administered from R�union, claimed by Madagascar.
Guadeloupe Overseas Department of France
Juan de Nova Island Possession of France, administered from R�union, claimed by Madagascar.
Martinique Overseas Department of France
Mayotte Territorial Collectivity of France
New Caledonia Overseas territory of France
R�union Overseas Department of France
Saint Pierre and Miquelon Self-governing Territorial Collectivity of France
Tromelin Island Possession of France, Possession of France, claimed by Mauritius.
Wallis and Futuna Overseas territory of France

Netherlands
Aruba A constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Cura�ao is since 10 October 2010 a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Sint Maarten Constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Before 10 October 2010, Sint Maarten was known as the Island Territory of Sint Maarten (Dutch: Eilandgebied Sint Maarten), and was one of five island territories (Eilandgebieden) that constituted the Netherlands Antilles.
Netherlands Antilles Until 10 October 2010 an autonomous Caribbean country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

New Zealand
Cook Islands Self-governing in free association with New Zealand.
Niue Self-governing in free association with New Zealand.
Tokelau Self-administering territory of New Zealand.

Norway
Bouvet Island Territory of Norway (uninhabited)
Jan Mayen (Isl) Territory of Norway
Svalbard (Isl) Territory of Norway

United Kingdom
Akrotiri (British Forces) Overseas territory of UK on Cyprus
Anguilla Overseas territory of the UK
Bermuda Overseas territory of the UK
British Indian Ocean Territory Overseas territory of the UK
British Virgin Islands (BVI) Internal self-governing Overseas territory of the UK.
Cayman Islands Overseas territory of the UK
Dhekelia (British Forces) Overseas territory of UK on Cyprus.
Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) Overseas territory of the UK; also claimed by Argentina.
Gibraltar Overseas territory of the UK, also claimed by Spain.
Guernsey (Channel Island) Crown dependency
Isle of Man Crown dependency
Jersey (Channel Island) Crown dependency
Montserrat Overseas territory of the UK
Pitcairn Islands Overseas territory of the UK
Saint Helena Overseas territory of the UK
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Overseas territory of the UK, also claimed by Argentina.
Turks and Caicos Islands Overseas territory of the UK

United States
American Samoa Unincorporated and unorganized territory of the US.
Baker Island Unincorporated territory of the US
Guam Organized, unincorporated territory of the US
Howland Island Unincorporated territory of the US
Jarvis Island Unincorporated territory of the US
Johnston Atoll Unincorporated territory of the US
Kingman Reef Unincorporated territory of the US
Midway Islands Unincorporated territory of the US
Navassa Island Unincorporated territory of the US
Northern Mariana Islands Commonwealth in political union with the US.
Palmyra Atoll privately owned incorporated territory of the US
Puerto Rico Commonwealth associated with the US
Virgin Islands U.S. Organized, unincorporated territory of the US
Wake Island Unincorporated territory of the US


Oh and don't forget Greenland!

[hanswu25]

It is funny two decades ago. When the Chinese Navy is pathetic, when Both Vietnam And Philippines were chasing and sinking the Chinese fishing boats to assert their authority. Nobody says a world. Today, the table has turned. Now, it is everyone's business. The big bad evil commies.

That is a serious accusation. May I ask your source, please?

[kyli]

Actually it was part colony (conquest) and part leased by the United Kingdom, not the US. When the lease expired the UK and China also negotiated a return of the original colony.

I apologize. it is a big typo for my part.

[Doktor]

S and K are far away on the keyboards, so it is not a typo ;)

[hanswu25]

In the battle of Paracel 74 and Spratly incident 88, PLAN did not seem to be pathetic at all.

[hanswu25]

ASEAN and USA raise concern with China about plan to board ship in dispute water. China declines to release details of the plan.

ASEAN chief voices alarm at China plan to board ships in disputed waters | Reuters

Reuters) - China's plan to board and search ships that illegally enter what it considers its territory in the disputed South China Sea could spark naval clashes and hurt the region's economy, Southeast Asia's top diplomat warned on Friday.

[kyli]

That is a serious accusation. May I ask your source, please?

It is not that a serious accusation. China also retaliated. It is reported in late 90s and early 00s. I don't know if I can baidu or google them. I will try to find it on the old Hong Kong newspaper which might be considered more neutral sources or international newspaper.

?????????? ???????????
中菲黄岩岛对峙 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

This one is a more independent source.
U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

[kyli]

S and K are far away on the keyboards, so it is not a typo ;)

Alright, I admitted that I had a few drinks and didn't think clearly when I was typing them.

[kyli]

In the battle of Paracel 74 and Spratly incident 88, PLAN did not seem to be pathetic at all.

Until late 90s, the Chinese Navy was pathetic. Taiwanese Navy was much much more powerful. You need to look at the history of the Chinese Navy and merchant ships in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

[cdude]

I hope you are joking.

Typographical error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S and K are far away on the keyboards, so it is not a typo ;)

[tbm3fan]

I thank Doktor for his submission and for doing your work. I don't see many islands on that list taken by force by the United States and some are uninhabited and the others have elected to stay with the United States.

Now I base my comments on your statements. If I am reading them incorrectly then maybe you are phrasing them incorrectly.

This is how I see your comment and correct me if I am wrong.

1) You are still living during the age of the Mongols where might makes right and international law be damned. This based on you constantly telling me what western powers did 100 years ago. What happened then is what happened then but times change and the world evolves. Law was set by battleship, but now international law prevails.Turning back the clock is no excuse. Oh,and saying we have historical rights to these rocks because it is in our old manuscripts doesn't pass muster. I'll lay odds indigenous fishermen of the nearby Islands, called Indonesia and Philippines, were probably there earlier. A Ming vase on the ocean floor means nothing since they are all over every ocean floor in South Asia.

2) China is just catching up on what she missed during the early part of the century by warning of force. I remember Japan did that in 1937 somewhere in Asia. Oh yes, it was Manchuria where she killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese because she said they were inferior to them. Taking a lesson from western powers decades before who did the same thing to justify their actions. Am I to assume China is going to be the 1937 Japan of this century in the taking of territory to expand her sphere of influence? Just give me heads up if you hear China is going to attack Pearl Harbor so I can schedule my vacation elsewhere.

Reality is China could sit down with the 5 other countries in the region to negotiate this issue. She could also take her case to the International Law of the Sea Tribunal in Hamburg. What stops her?