China-Tibet Threads

[Blademaster]

So, there's your dispute. At the time, the Mongols and the Qings owned Tibet lock stock and barrel. They also owned China. Because the Chinese now own the Mongols and the Qings, they also claim to own Tibet. Know what? They do. Four Chinese armies say they do.

Then you admit that Tibet only belongs to China by force. Not a durable force. If it wasn't for the armies, Tibet would declare itself free. What if Nehru wasn't at the helm but Sardar Patel and Patel kept the battle-hardened WWII forces in shape into the 50s and resisted China. By all accounts, IA had the upper hand at the outset of 1949. What would you say to that?

[Blademaster]

http://i.imgur.com/5dZXT.gif[ATTACH=CONFIG]32908[/ATTACH]

I bet you received that a lot to your posts that it is permanently ingrained into your brain.

[TopHatter]

Let's everybody stay cool, knock off the name-calling and play nicely ;)

One other suggestion: Everybody read this post. ;)
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab...tml#post540961

If you've read it already, read it again :)

[Officer of Engineers]

Then by your standards, neither is Canada or US.

I'm quoting him. He said the modern nation state is defined by the West. The Persian, Tang, and the Maurya Empires were just our imaginations.

Come on OOE, give the kid a break.

He's expecting me to bow down to his living god. Fuck that bullshit.

CHina sent in armed people and violated India's borders and waved a sign saying "You are in China's land" and that doesn't require a military response?

A police response for sure but a military response

Or to provide a long duration watching eye protected from the elements such as wind.

I was answering how a bunker can be used for offensive purposes also.

[Officer of Engineers]

Then you admit that Tibet only belongs to China by force. Not a durable force. If it wasn't for the armies, Tibet would declare itself free.

I have always said that. History is a testament to that fact. Tibet declared itself independent when Qing Armies can no longer punish her. Today, I have also stated the only way for Tibet to regain her independence is the creation of a Tibetan Army. Instead, we got the DL going around begging for everybody else's army but his own.

What if Nehru wasn't at the helm but Sardar Patel and Patel kept the battle-hardened WWII forces in shape into the 50s and resisted China. By all accounts, IA had the upper hand at the outset of 1949. What would you say to that?

A war that would have reduced both countries to Somalia levels for decades to come. Don't forget the Chinese smashed into Korea also. The armies that clash in Korea vs the British Indian Army in unforgiving terrain.

Of hand, I would give the immediate edge to the BIA Officers who cut their teeth under Slim but I don't know how India would fare politically after the first 100,000 casualties.

[Officer of Engineers]

You believed in Deng in which you admitted he was no humanist. After all, he was responsible for far more deaths than you could ever blame Dalai Lama, (see the Cambodia thread) and yet you are more harsh with him than with Deng. What gives?

Deng proved his balls even with his own people.

He's Tibet's living god. He's Tibet's problem What I do have a problem with is fucking idiots trying to shove His Holy Ass down my throat and what's more, His Holy Ass encourage such things. A $1000 a seat at his "lectures."

Deng kick his own army in the ass, sending to fight a disastrous war, and then kick their ass into the streets against his own people. Whatever you want to say about him, he has balls.

This "living god" sweet talks you about the wrongs of China and the world should pressure China into doing the right thing. The only pressure China listens to is military force. He knows it. We know it. The Chinese know it. But it's not Tibet's military force, it's ours. He wants us to bleed for his country without his people doing any bleeding at all.

Hell, he's a living god. Then do god's work and strike the Chinese with lightning. His bullshit just stinks.

[doppelganger]

Why is it being (mis)construed that I am a pom pom boy for the Dalai Lama.

Which post of mine gives that impression?

The Tibetans have not and are not bleeding?

We know what it means not to be masters of our own land.

You want Tibetans to raise an army against the third most powerful military in the world? So that they can give the legitimacy for sanction of official slaughter?

Why are the Tibetans children of a lesser God in terms of being worthy of outside help. Help that has been given to others across the world?

Is it because Tibet does not have much to offer in the way of the eventual spoils of war?

[doppelganger]

Times of India is reporting that China did not return empty handed from this adventurism, and did extract their pound of flesh.

It seems that we have agreed to dismantle our forward installations (bunkers etc.) at Chushul in return for their withdrawal.

This was India's eyes and ears on the Karakoram region apparently and was making the Chinese very nervous.

If true, chalk up one more spineless act by the Manmohan Singh governemnt, as they scramble to make a few hundred thousand more crores to stash away abroad.

[Blademaster]

Times of India is reporting that China did not return empty handed from this adventurism, and did extract their pound of flesh.

It seems that we have agreed to dismantle our forward installations (bunkers etc.) at Chushul in return for their withdrawal.

This was India's eyes and ears on the Karakoram region apparently and was making the Chinese very nervous.

If true, chalk up one more spineless act by the Manmohan Singh governemnt, as they scramble to make a few hundred thousand more crores to stash away abroad.

It is rumors only but if it is true, then I am very angry at the government. They do not deserve any dignified exit. They need to be kicked down the stairs with dogs baying at their feet as they are chased away. I despise Sonia Gandhi very much now. She is making the nation weak by refusing to accept responsibility but yet exercising her powers. She is a parasite and a leech. I do not forgive Rajiv Gandhi for allowing this despicable woman into India and letting her destroy the nation's security.

[doppelganger]

It is rumors only but if it is true, then I am very angry at the government. They do not deserve any dignified exit. They need to be kicked down the stairs with dogs baying at their feet as they are chased away. I despise Sonia Gandhi very much now. She is making the nation weak by refusing to accept responsibility but yet exercising her powers. She is a parasite and a leech. I do not forgive Rajiv Gandhi for allowing this despicable woman into India and letting her destroy the nation's security.

Latest reports say we are to dismantle bunkers in Chumar area.

Think how galling it would be for our jawans to follow orders from such despicable leadership.

In the cold and putting their lives on the line. And then the order comes to move back. By a bastard who has more important things to do like fleecing the country blind in the obscene loot that is going on in New Delhi.

No wonder Rang De Basanti touched a cord within all of us.

[Officer of Engineers]

Why is it being (mis)construed that I am a pom pom boy for the Dalai Lama.

Which post of mine gives that impression?

This fucking bullshit

Sir you are falling prey to Chinese propaganda. Sadly.

Defaming the Dalai Lama. Deriding the Living God. Human rights abuses by the Tibetans for crying out loud.

The Chinese ain't no angels but for fucking sure, the DL ain't no god. Those are historic pictures taken way before the PRC was even Mao's wet dreams. The current DL ain't responsible for them but for sure, Tibet was no Buddhist paradise. However, the current DL does claim re-incarnation but claims no responsibility for what happened during his "previous lives" which includes asking the Mongols to put whole cities to the sword and that means every man, woman, child, dog. It was "before" his time. The charlatan is as slimy and slippery as a snake oil salesman.

Next what? That China came in as the knight in shining Ming armor?

Say what you want but the fact is Tibet has never been so well fed in her entire history. A hell of a lot of it is forced. Monks now got to work for a living.

I see a trend. I cannot argue with propaganda.

Your bullshit stinks to high heaven.

I offer anecdotal insights as an Indian who actually interacts with Tibetans.

And I will give you facts. In the "War of the Gods," Mao against the DL, Mao won hands down. The Tibetan Red Guards were Tibetan youths brainwashed into destroying their own temples and culture.

And I will give you another fact, both Mao and the DL already lost Tibet. The Americans won it without even knowing it. The streets are lined with shops with consumer goods, not prayer beeds and even Mao Tse-Tung posters - because they sell.

The Tibetans have not and are not bleeding?

Not nearly enough and for the most stupid and benile of reasons. The DL tried insurrection and failed and then completely denied he ever had blood on his hands.

He ordered two uprisings both half heartily done with no support, no weapons build up, no strategy and then claim it was a spontaneous event and not of his doing.

I rather faced a 1000 Dengs on the battlefield than to have this fuck supporting me from the back. He will put a knife in me and then claim where the hell did the knife come from.

We know what it means not to be masters of our own land.

You also bled to be your own masters. The BIA proved too much of a match for London to even imagine keeping hold.

You want Tibetans to raise an army against the third most powerful military in the world? So that they can give the legitimacy for sanction of official slaughter?

Vietnam, Afghanistan (twice), China (against the US and the USSR), Chechnya, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary. It can be done and it has been done.

Why are the Tibetans children of a lesser God in terms of being worthy of outside help. Help that has been given to others across the world?

They don't want help. They want someone else to do their dirty work for them so that they can sit on lazy ass. No one. No one ever got freedom without bleeding for it.

Is it because Tibet does not have much to offer in the way of the eventual spoils of war?

Water.

[doppelganger]

Colonel I like reading you posts and learning from you sir.

But seriously you say "fucking" like punctuation marks, mostly aimed at me.

But I like learning nonetheless.

You sympathize with the Chinese in this, I sympathize with the Tibetans.

The Tibetans. Not the Dalai Lama or any such.

They have a right to their own land and self rule.

So what if they are lazy or whatever else you accuse them of.

If they do not want to be ruled by the Chinese and their land occupied, Free Tibet is their birthright.

The British also predicted that the brown savages would screw up big time and whine for mommy once they were gone.

Well, if we screw up, its our mistakes to make, our road to tread.

Why would you deny the Tibetans the same?

[Officer of Engineers]

Colonel I like reading you posts and learning from you sir.

But seriously you say "fucking" like punctuation marks, mostly aimed at me.

Because you're too stupid to do the most basic of research and spout your Indian nationalism at every chance you get. India is NOT THE END ALL BE ALL of this universe. Hell, it's not even the end all be all of Asia.

You sympathize with the Chinese in this, I sympathize with the Tibetans.

I sympathize with neither side. I see the bloodbath that is required to change the status quo and thus far, only the Chinese are willing to spill it. I have zero respects for anyone not willing to do the same for their own freedom.

The Tibetans. Not the Dalai Lama or any such.

You're the bloody idiot who called him a living god. He's damned no such thing.

They have a right to their own land and self rule.

No, they don't. They have the right to fight for it but they certainly don't have any rights that they don't want to bleed for.

So what if they are lazy or whatever else you accuse them of.

If they do not want to be ruled by the Chinese and their land occupied, Free Tibet is their birthright.

Read up on the history. The current occupants took the land from others and others were put to the knife.

The British also predicted that the brown savages would screw up big time and whine for mommy once they were gone.

They couldn't stay even if they wanted to.

Well, if we screw up, its our mistakes to make, our road to tread.

Why would you deny the Tibetans the same?

Because it is not the same. The British Indian Army won your freedom. Wake me up when a Tibetan Army does the same. Hell, wake me up where there is a Tibetan Army, instead of the DL hopping across the globe, trying to ask us to use our armies instead.

[Blademaster]

I sympathize with neither side. I see the bloodbath that is required to change the status quo and thus far, only the Chinese are willing to spill it. I have zero respects for anyone not willing to do the same for their own freedom.

The Tibetans did spill their blood only to lose. If they fight any more, they will be wiped out.

You're the bloody idiot who called him a living god. He's damned no such thing.

Whether you like it or not, a large majority of Tibetans calls him their living god. How is it any different from the hundreds of millions of Chinese people who thought Mao was god? Or the 1.2 billion people that think the Pope comes from the heavens. Your singular outing and hatred of this Tibetan leader in contrast to numerous Chinese leaders, including Deng, leaves me and others perplexed when in light of, Dalai Lama may be only responsible for thousands of deaths, but Deng and others were responsible for millions of deaths and were monsters in their time, employing greater and more brutal tactics than Dalai Lama would employ.

No, they don't. They have the right to fight for it but they certainly don't have any rights that they don't want to bleed for.

They have bled. It is just that you don't want to recognize that they did.

Read up on the history. The current occupants took the land from others and others were put to the knife.

Ok then by your standards, you might as well say that the Serbs were correct to kick the Kosovos out or the Serbs correct to kick the Bosnians out. After all, Bosnians and Kosovans were screaming hard for Western intervention in which they got. Tibetans never had that chance.

Wake me up when a Tibetan Army does the same. Hell, wake me up where there is a Tibetan Army, instead of the DL hopping across the globe, trying to ask us to use our armies instead.

There was a Tibetan Army. It got destroyed. All DL had was his people who were scattered all over the globe. At least, he did not engage in the kind of warfare employed by LTTE whose tactics have harmed Tamils far more than they could imagined.

I know you don't like DL but you don't speak for millions of Indians in which DL has the support of. Otherwise DL would have not been allowed in India. Guess what? Their say matters a lot more than what you think and there is not a frigging thing you can do about it.

[Skywatcher]

Point of order: We Catholics don't think the Pope came down from Heaven. I think you're confusing things.