China-Tibet Threads

[Officer of Engineers]

So explain to me why learning English would be more helpful than learning Mandarin for the Tibetans?

[devgupt]

So explain to me why learning English would be more helpful than learning Mandarin for the Tibetans?

Does the importance of learning english needs to be emphasized in the flat world?

[devgupt]

Here are some advantages of knowing English:

Most pages on the Web are in English. That's over a billion (1,000,000,000) pages of information!

You can get books on any subject, from all over the world.Generally the best books on any topic in the world do have an english edition.(if the author is english fine ,if not translation is always there).

English is the key to the world of science. In 1997, 95% of the articles in the Science Citation Index were written in English. Only about 50% of them were from English-speaking countries like the USA or Britain. (AAASTALK - Mapping The World Of Science)
English is the language of technology, especially high technology like computer science, genetics, and medicine. If you're going to read about technology, you'll probably have to do it in English

English is "the language of communication". All the people in the world have understood the need of English to talk to each other. About 1,500,000,000 people in the world speak English. Another 1,000,000,000 are learning it.

Internet discussion groups - well if u don't know English how will u participate in them? How will u know people from different countries and debate with them like we do here

Almost all international conferences and competitions are conducted in English.
Diplomats and politicians from different countries use English to communicate with each other.

You can travel more throughout the world.Communicate with people wherever you go — English is spoken in more than 100 countries

And the biggest reason of them all
International business is done in English. And in the flat world boundaries don't matter, every big business has an international component. So if you want to be successful in this world, you have to know English

[Ray]

[QUOTE=yeung3939;519675][QUOTE=Ray;519624]

First, I wonder why you repeatedly used the term 'barbarian'. Who is calling whom barbarian? When? Where?

You don't seem to understand the difference between Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism (Lamaism). Tibetan Buddhism is a religion with political attachments. Politics and religion cannot be separated, because the Lama (particularly the living buddha) is suppoed to rule. Values of tibetan buddhism are to dominate. In this sense, there is normally no religious freedom in Western sense. At least, there was no religious freedom properly defined before the communist takeover.

You don't understand the Hanization of names and changes of names into Japanese name (which japanese forced the indigeous population to do). Hanization of name, in your sense, just means finding Chinese words that pronounce like the manchu ones. Changes of name means you have to get a Japanese name. For example, I have a Chinese name. If the British forced us to change our names, then I have to change my name to let's say George Bush. In short, there is not much wrong with Hanization of name. You can keep your own names and pronounce it in your own way.

As for your reliance on cultural relativism, yes so why westerners are criticizing China for human rights infringement (which I support, but you don't seem to think so)??? Cultural relativism is not always right, especially if they don't even get enough food to eat. No matter what accounts you rely on, in the pre-communist years many Tibetans suffered from starvation and did not have the oppourtunity to climb up the social laddar. Also, younger generations have better opportunity to get a better living.

You can call me whatever you like. I don't believe in the historical materialist determinism of Communism. I said Hong Kong, not China. You don't seem to know anything about Hong Kong.

There is nothing in your paragraphs that warrants a categorical attack on the Chinese culture. Money is not all of my life. Choosing money doesn't mean I have to lose my spiritual life. Stop your slogun-like shouting.

The complaints of those victims of corruption are heard all over China. No worries. I wish the CCP will address these problems, and hopefully this won't happen again. This shows the advantage of transparency.

I did not coin that? Why do I say ''barbarian"'? What is ''nei ren'' and ''wai ren'' . Surely. you have not forgotten Chinese history!

Why blame Tibetan Buddhism with political connection. All religions have the same! Who says Tibetan Buddhism is to dominate? In Tibet, it was an equation. The Communists came and they brought with them the religion of Communism!

It is total humbug that the British would change your name. It is the Hans who changed names. If you changed y9our name to George Bush, you would be one of the usually kowtowing Chinese! I would never change my name under any circumstances. You Chinese have the mindset to kowtow to authority and that is why you kowtowed to Mao or to Deng and are totally confused as to what you are and where you are going! One day, you praise Communism and the second day you praise Capitalism.Why? You have no mind of your own, you have been programmed like a robot because of your culture and Legalism!!!

Actually I know nothing of China since it is ambiguous, devious and cunning. Hong Kong and China are two different kettle of fish and so is Macao. Jumping ship as per the weather. Or, any port in stormy weather!!

It is bogus that Tibetan starved. Don't give me that claptrap!

Check your posts. You worldly life is a materialist comfort and not spiritual!! You would accept a snake oil salesman as God so long as the till rang dollars!

[Ray]

So explain to me why learning English would be more helpful than learning Mandarin for the Tibetans?

Guess why?

Ask the English teacher in China.


why is there Big Money for teaching English in China?

[Officer of Engineers]

Does the importance of learning english needs to be emphasized in the flat world?

Does the importance of earning a living need to be emphasized in the flat world?

Here are some advantages of knowing English: ...

How is any of that going to help you when your electric, telephone, grocery, bus routes, and hell, even your money is in Chinese?

[Officer of Engineers]

Guess why?

Ask the English teacher in China.


why is there Big Money for teaching English in China?

Sir,

Like everything else, they think it's a leg up but frankly, listening to my relatives, I rather them hear my bastardized mandarin than for me to hear their bastardized English. At least, I don't speak broken mandarin.

[Ray]

Colonel,

It is not your fault.

I am in India and because I was exposed to Hindi and Hindusthani for such along time in my career, I find talking my own Mother tongue very onerous!!

Hearing bastardised English in my country gets my goat!

I have been offered many a job to teach English and English accent (I hate the American gibberish!) in India. Good money but I am bone lazy!

I even complained to the BBC. Not a word from them thereafter!

My own Uncle (married my aunt) is a genuine Englishman and a MBE, he found my English terribly stuffy! ;)

[devgupt]

Does the importance of earning a living need to be emphasized in the flat world?

And I say the best way for that in the flat world is by learning English. That's why more and more people in the world and in China also learning English.There has been a mushrooming of english teaching centers in mainland china. why keep tibet away? Probably the CCP might allow Tibetans to learn English, but wants to let them become Chinese first

How is any of that going to help you when your electric, telephone, grocery, bus routes, and hell, even your money is in Chinese?

Why should then that be the case? After all in an area which is overwhelmingly Tibetan why should the electric bills be in Chinese. Isn't this the policy of occupation ? is this the right way to run a multi lingual country. Or probably the CCCP thinks that China is not a multi-lingual country.This logic weakens China's position on Tibet. If u don't show respect to the culture or language of a section of your people how can you call themselves your own?

[von Spreuth]

Here are some advantages of knowing English:

Most pages on the Web are in English. That's over a billion (1,000,000,000) pages of information!

You can get books on any subject, from all over the world.Generally the best books on any topic in the world do have an english edition.(if the author is english fine ,if not translation is always there).

English is the key to the world of science. In 1997, 95% of the articles in the Science Citation Index were written in English. Only about 50% of them were from English-speaking countries like the USA or Britain. (AAASTALK - Mapping The World Of Science)
English is the language of technology, especially high technology like computer science, genetics, and medicine. If you're going to read about technology, you'll probably have to do it in English

English is "the language of communication". All the people in the world have understood the need of English to talk to each other. About 1,500,000,000 people in the world speak English. Another 1,000,000,000 are learning it.

Internet discussion groups - well if u don't know English how will u participate in them? How will u know people from different countries and debate with them like we do here

Almost all international conferences and competitions are conducted in English.
Diplomats and politicians from different countries use English to communicate with each other.

You can travel more throughout the world.Communicate with people wherever you go — English is spoken in more than 100 countries

And the biggest reason of them all
International business is done in English. And in the flat world boundaries don't matter, every big business has an international component. So if you want to be successful in this world, you have to know English

There are more Mandarin speakers in the world than any other language, and Mandarin is, what....Hawaiian?

Hearing bastardised English in my country gets my goat!

Yes. Here they call it "Denglish". (Deutsch/Englisch) All thse wankers that think it is "cool" to throw VERY badly pronounced "English" into what they laughingly call, a "conversation". MOST of them have not the I.Q to have a "conversation".

Trouble is now, even the "Government" have fallen for it. the local dole/Welfare office is called "Job center" which I REFUSE to use. (The word I mean)

Here is Germany, if you do not speak German then starve you bastard.

[dave lukins]

What stance did the world's press take up? Many countries criticized as evil by western countries do throw out media.

I just wanted to offer an alternative explanation. The CCP does have a policy norm of news block.

No Ai Guo Zhu Yi. I am sick of this frequently abused term. I don't have to love the CCP to love China.

That's why there is a smilie:) no offence meant.

[Officer of Engineers]

And I say the best way for that in the flat world is by learning English. That's why more and more people in the world and in China also learning English.There has been a mushrooming of english teaching centers in mainland china. why keep tibet away? Probably the CCP might allow Tibetans to learn English, but wants to let them become Chinese first

You mean to tell me that the local Tibetan grocer is more likely to speak English than Mandarin?

Why should then that be the case?

How about the fact that it is the People's Republic of China?

After all in an area which is overwhelmingly Tibetan why should the electric bills be in Chinese.

Since Chinese money and expertise built it, why should this not be the case? Especially in China?

Isn't this the policy of occupation ? is this the right way to run a multi lingual country. Or probably the CCCP thinks that China is not a multi-lingual country.

As opposed to English? The local markets speaks both Tibetan and Mandarin. You want the Tibetan customer's money, you speak Tibetan. You want the Chinese customer's money, you speak Mandarin. However, chances are you ain't going to make a living speaking English.

This logic weakens China's position on Tibet. If u don't show respect to the culture or language of a section of your people how can you call themselves your own?

There is respect but there is also a limit. The over-culture would simply overwhelm weaker ones. Just look at BAYWATCH.

[Aniki]

Right but then the Chinese are themselves learning english nowadays. But they are making Tibetans learn Chinese.They are denying the advantage of english to Tibetans.
More importantly admission to university is through a common entrance examination but the medium of examination is in Chinese for almost all courses.So obviously the aim is to make tibetans feel that their language will take them nowhere .This isn't the policy to be followed if u consider ur country to be multi-lingual.

obviously u are not familiar with the chinese education and examination system. first of all the chinese govt had a '9 yr compulsory education'. compulsory doesnt mean 'free education' provided by the govt. it simply means parents have the obligation to send their children to school, but if u have no money then u find a way out. recently it has improved slightly with some 'eradication of poverty' programs and 'govt subsidised education' plans, but education for children is still a big expense for most chinese family. with that said, however, minority races like tibetan or ulygurs truely enjoyed free education, supported by the govt. becos the chinese govt want to show the west they didnt ill-treat the minorities. so they are different from the majority chinese.

next, part 2, althou there is a common examination thruout, the point system is different according to 2 main category, region and ethnicity. generally speaking, for example out of a point system of maybe 800 or 900 points,

1, northerners (north and south separated by the yangtze river) enjoy about 100-150 points exemption. meaning a beijing candidate needs only 550 or 600 if the passing mark is set at 700, whereas a shanghainese or cantonese candidate needs the full 700 points.

2, big city dwellers(like people in shanghai or beijing or canton) also had certain exemption compared to some hillbilly from the countryside trying to get into the big city. the govt doesnt want country folks to flood the cities which will in turn become a burden and create social problems like high unemployment rate. the higher points required barred them from entering the big cities.

3, again, minority groups are not affect by the point system or the exam. if they show some diligent or interest in studying, they get free entry into universities. language barrier is no barrier at all. they will graduate no matter what. same thing for national atheletes and other sportsmen.

[devgupt]

There are more Mandarin speakers in the world than any other language, and Mandarin is, what....Hawaiian?

They are concentrated in a specific area while English speakers are spread around the world.

[devgupt]

You mean to tell me that the local Tibetan grocer is more likely to speak English than Mandarin?

Well If a Tibetan only needs to interact with his local grocer then he needs no education at all.

On a serious note- are u trying to imply that English has no role in China's future.Going by pronouncements of the Chinese government(we will make every taxi driver learn English) it seems to me English will occupy a big role in china

How about the fact that it is the People's Republic of China?

Since Chinese money and expertise built it, why should this not be the case? Especially in China?

That raises a very serious question about the identity of China. What exactly is China, its culture-only the Hans or the Tibetans, Uighurs are a part of it? Is it a composite culture or Han culture only?And if it is composite then shouldn't the importance of other cultures reflected in local administration?

And is Chinese money different from Tibetan money? If they are one country then shouldn't both be same?

USA, UK and other allies have many infrastructure projects in Afghanistan and Iraq. Going by your logic how different then is the infrastructure development done by China inTibet?