Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

[667medic]

Well they showed up but were not allowed to get within a mile from the venue. Watch. Cued up just hit play.

Just how big was the opposition ? It's not hundreds maybe a few thousand.

Another view

Funny thing is i don't see a single Pak flag there. Khalistani & PO J&K flags only.

There is still one more chance outside the UN on the 27th.

They didnt show Pak flag as they wanted to pretend that Paks are protesting only for Kashmiri human rights and not because Modi has forever squelched their wet-dream about ever getting Indian Kashmir.

[Double Edge]

That's just it, the PA must have realised this decades ago but they have to keep the act up.

All these Pak protests are purely for their domestic consumption. So the world isn't reacting.

I've asked this before. What changed for them post Aug 5 ?

Borders still the same, we're not gearing up to invade them.

They never accept anything we say about J&K so its curious they put up such a brouhaha over 370.

It's always better to make the people look away than at the administration who had got them into the mess they are in.

So what changed.

This we will get back PO J&K one day line is also an act. It flips things around gives India a Kashmir card.

It's a plot device but some people in India are taking it literally to mean much more than that.

[667medic]

That's just it, the PA must have realised this decades ago but they have to keep the act up.

All these Pak protests are purely for their domestic consumption. So the world isn't reacting.

I've asked this before. What changed for them post Aug 5 ?

Borders still the same, we're not gearing up to invade them.

They never accept anything we say about J&K so its curious they put up such a brouhaha over 370.

It's always better to make the people look away than at the administration who had got them into the mess they are in.

So what changed.

This we will get back PO J&K one day line is also an act. It flips things around gives India a Kashmir card.

It's a plot device but some people in India are taking it literally to mean much more than that.

It reminds me of Bhutto’s famous words about eating grass. The Pak Army sold their legitimacy to the people by saying that they are the defenders of Islam from Hindus and also that they will get back Kashmir, AKA their jugular vein. Modi just showed that Indian Kashmir was never their jugular vein to begin with and rather Pak Kashmir was the unfinished agenda.
Pak Army desperately needs something to show that they are still relevant but what can they do. The FATF sword is hanging over their heads but they need any event to spark an incident between and get the international community to get involved. Then they can show to their people that tue world save India from Pak Army’s wrath. Problem is that India has fortified the border to keep the terrorists out and is also keeping the situation under control in the valley. So that’s why India’s enemies want to restriction to go away so that the valley can explode....

[667medic]

More worried about India than Pakistan right now, says Imran Khan

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/stor...382-2019-09-23

akistan Prime Minister Imran Khan on Monday said he will try to convince US President Donald Trump for resuming talks with India over a host of issues including Kashmir.

"I will try my best to convey my feelings to President Trump," said Imran Khan. The Pakistan PM further criticised India for avoiding bilateral talks on a number of occasions.

Imran Khan said, "India is not heading in the right direction and I am more worried about India than Pakistan right now." He added that a strong "nationalist" sentiment has taken over the idea of India.

Imran Khan went on to say that he would want the United Nations to play a role in mediating talks with India.


Speaking with Richard N Hass, the president of Council of Foreign Relations (CFR), Imran Khan said over eight million Kashmiris have been living under restrictions in Kashmir for almost 50 days.

"At least what I expect from the international community is to ask them (India) to lift the curfew," Imran Khan added, saying that it is a gross violation of human rights.

When asked about Pakistan's economic woes, Imran Khan blamed the previous administrations for failing to manage the economy. He, however, said that Pakistan is working towards restructuring the economy.

Meanwhile, Imran Khan is scheduled to meet with US President Donald Trump shortly and expected to speak to him on a host of issues including Kashmir.

Imran Khan will also try to seek support of the international community on Kashmir when he gives his maiden address at the 74th United Nationals General Assembly (UNGA) on September 27. India, on the other hand, made it clear that Pakistan should not meddle in the country's internal matters.

[667medic]

I wonder why no one is putting him to the spot by harping on Uighur Muslims. He can't still pretend to be ignorant about this issue even 6 months after the last time he claimed so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_DtAAK43UA

[Double Edge]

They survived '71. They will find a way to survive this as well.

Rewriting the narrative of Pakistan’s Kashmir lawfare | Global Village Space | Sept 09 2019

Here is what one genius from Harvard says

To effectively respond to this new Indian assault, Pakistan had no choice but to discard its stale narrative and rethink its Kashmir policy.

Luckily for Pakistan, it’s Prime Minister, by taking a leaf from the international playbook, took the initiative of battling out the war of narratives; using new vernacular instead of cliched terminology that was no longer creating any ripples in global corridors.

How far Pakistan can develop on the Prime Minister’s initiative will determine whether or not Pakistan can effectively re-draw the Kashmir narrative lines.

Narrative lines ? they concocted a story and now need to spin another. They tell their people stories.

So what has Prime Minister Imran Khan managed to do that has given a new pair of legs to Pakistan’s Kashmir policy?

It all began the day he coined the term ‘fascism’ to describe RSS/BJP.

The Prime Minister kept it simple: RSS and BJP share eerie similarities with Nazis.

Both are totalitarian; both divide society in an attempt to incite hatred along ethnic and religious lines, and both tap into an ‘engineered’ version of the past to catapult the masses towards a preordained future course of action. The SOS call of the Prime Minister has been: forces of fascism have reared their ugly head, and the world must act fast.

Part this trope misses is fascists, nazis and commies have to take over the state and its institutions. The RSS isn't doing that and could care less if it took another hundred years.

All Pakistan could rely on were 70 years old UNSC resolutions that had lost their teeth. The ‘K’ word had stopped echoing in global corridors, and the ‘freedom fighter’ had been re-labeled a ‘terrorist.’ India was pinching Pakistan where it hurt most and, ironically, Pakistan was a ‘sitting duck’ talking about peace with India.

All this was until Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in his endless wisdom, made the unthinkable strategic blunder: abrogating Article 370 of the Indian Constitution. Thereafter, gates of hell have been slowly but surely opening for India. Pakistan will need to make sure that these doors remain open.

Kashmir finds itself at the cusp of unprecedented change. While this change may have shaken up the status quo in Pakistan, it contains seeds of new opportunities for Pakistan. Whether Pakistan leverages those opportunities or squanders them will be entirely Pakistan’s choice.

Unthinkable strategic blunder eh

Historically, two themes underpin Pakistan’s Kashmir policy: ‘territory’ and ‘people.’ For Pakistan’s new Kashmir narrative to be meaningful and effective, Pakistan’s policymakers will need to dispassionately consider whether conferring preconceived meanings from the past on present-day policies has enabled Pakistan to ‘sell’ its narrative to the world-at-large.

If the success of Pakistan’s Kashmir policy is gauged purely, based on how far the world is willing to go to stand with Kashmiris, then Pakistan will have to move away from recycled metaphors and instead weaponize the narrative through new vocabulary, nuances, and themes. Language is a powerful tool. If used correctly, it can change hearts and minds.

Pakistan should instead look at other unprecedented opportunities that have recently surfaced in this imbroglio. The ”people” (Kashmiris) debate has been gaining significant traction in international circles. The focus of ‘Pakistan’s narrative– at least for now – should, therefore, be on the ”people.”

If Pakistan focuses solely on the ‘security and escalation’ aspect, it can overshadow the more significant issue i.e., the people (Kashmiris). For the issue to stay relevant, Pakistan will need to leverage recent developments that have positioned the people debate at the center of global discourse. Let me explain.

UNSC Resolution 47, which requires the J&K dispute to be settled through a ‘free and fair plebiscite’ offers J&K the choice between accession to India or Pakistan. Notably, no UNSC resolution on J&K contemplates independence of J&K. Pakistan should expend all its diplomatic and legal efforts on coalescing global support for the self-determination of Kashmiris.

This should be pursued as a stand-alone policy that is separate and distinct from Pakistan’s territorial claims over IOK. Right of self-determination has been recognized in international law as a principle of ‘jus cogens,’ i.e., a fundamental principle of international law from which no derogation is possible. No patent illegality (occupation, suppression, colonialism, etc.) can extinguish this right through lapse of time.

This right of self-determination exists today as much as it did at the time of partition. The International Commission of Jurists confirmed it in their 1995 report on J&K. What does this mean for Pakistan’s existing Kashmir policy?

Firstly, that the slogan ‘Kashmir Banega Pakistan’ won’t sell anymore and therefore Pakistan should re-think the policy that is tethered to ‘territory.’

Second, that any future plebiscite on J&K will also include territory under Pakistan’s control. This is the bitter pill that Pakistan will have to swallow if it wants a resolution of the Kashmir dispute within the international framework.

The problem with this plebiscite idea is neither country will respect it if it goes against them. Which means both are still in the same spot plebiscite or not.

The ultimate challenge for Pakistan will be to make the world ‘re-think’ and ‘re-imagine’ India. This is a step further after making the world ‘de-link’ from India as the paragon of democracy and virtue.

This will require bringing out the ‘alternative truth’ about Kashmir – something that India been deliberately hiding from public view.

[Double Edge]

Couple from Ashali Varma

Kashmir and Srinagar today: The Myths of foreign media – Part 1 | TOI (Blogs) | Sept 17 2019

I decided to go with a friend who has a family home in Srinagar, for a visit and talk to people about their fears and challenges. Arriving at the airport I was stunned to see hundreds of people that had come on different flights. The airport was buzzing with returning Hajis, tourists and Kashmiris. The flights into the city were full. Porters streamed around asking to collect our baggage.

Kashmir and Srinagar today: The Myths of foreign media – Part 2 | TOI (Blogs) | Sept 17 2019

I headed to Residency Road, the area with expensive shops. They are all shuttered. I see a half-shuttered shop selling Indian Sweets and ask the driver to stop. A man outside the shop says I can buy sweets there. They open the shutter for me and my friend and we go in together. I expect to see empty shelves but the place is full of freshly made mouthwatering delicacies.

I order some Kalakand and barfies. I ask the owner, a polite young English- speaking guy in his mid-thirties if the shop is shut who buys your sweets. He tells me they have enough orders.

I realize the owners of the shops in Residency Road are part of the elite and they do business even while they have their shutters down, unlike the smaller Kirana stores. The shop near my friend’s home is open all the time. Perhaps they are not afraid. We go in to buy groceries and they are really helpful. They are known to my friend and there seems to be no dearth of supplies.

We drive past Mehbooba Mufti’s home. It is an estate, the walls of which go on for a mile or more. The PM of India has a tiny place by comparison. This is the kind of fiefdom that only existed during the time of the monarchies in India. The Abdullah’s have their own such residences, father and son live separately. Such is the wealth they have all accumulated with dynastic power.

Rumours abound regarding the presence of terrorists in the valley. They will definitely try and strike somewhere in India. Pakistan cannot abide that J&K has slipped from their hands for good.

But in the valley people seem happy. Just going about their work as people do everywhere. It seems they are used to disruption and many say we feel safer now than we have for decades. This is a good sign.

[Double Edge]

[Double Edge]

Indeed....HAHA!

The man gets the third degree by his own people on a regular basis he handled this sound bite hungry pool of Pak reporters with ease.

Pretty clear now that there will no American interference with Kashmir

Full version

ok, so he said the same thing also about the Indian reporters after what sounded like Rahul Kanwal pressed him on terrorism

Modi Trump Presser

He is attacking American reporters !

[Double Edge]

Houston is a Pak stronghold, one of the few places where Paks actually call their businesses as Pakistani instead of masquerading as South Asian or Indo-Pakistani.

Guess they wanted wanted to stuck it to their face knowing fully well that American police wont tolerate their shenanigans like what the Brits did in London. All that high level organization to humiliate Modi turned into a damp squib...

The one thing this show will do is overshadow any negative campaigning by the Paks. Which makes it all the more impressive it could be done given the timing. I see people saying this was event management by Modi, heh no. This requires an Indian american contingent on the ground that is capable of networking around and it shows the indian american community has finally come of age.

If Trump shows up then they are a political force to reckon with in domestic politics. He knows 80% of them vote for the Dems so here he has a chance to make a pitch to them.

[667medic]

Something that I am trying hard to understand is that why the treatment of Muslims in China is never an issue. I watched Imdim’s press conference, he was claiming that the Kashmir issue will radicalize 1.5 billion Muslims and then the international community will be responsible for the consequences. So Muslims won’t get radicalized by the treatment of Uyghurs? I think that the Paks desperately wanted restrictions on internet and other communications lifted so that they could engineer a crisis during the UNGA meeting. That’s why they are nie dropping satellite phones using drones now...

[Double Edge]

How many satelleite phones can they send. They have their cell towers near the border so if you have a phone that can connect then communications are possible. The problem is how do you then transmit that message to the valley. Towers cannot broadcast very far at cell phone frequencies. I'm quite surprised to see how effectively no internet and mobile has crippled their operations. For now its word of mouth and hand carried messages.

They definitely want some mass casualty event but its ok if it does not happen now, later is always possible. Then they will try to call some UNSC meeting which won't get very far.

I think i had posted about this silence in the uighur thread. Even the Pak militant outfits are ok with it. That is the surprising part.

[667medic]

How many satelleite phones can they send. They have their cell towers near the border so if you have a phone that can connect then communications are possible. The problem is how do you then transmit that message to the valley. Towers cannot broadcast very far at cell phone frequencies. I'm quite surprised to see how effectively no internet and mobile has crippled their operations. For now its word of mouth and hand carried messages.

They definitely want some mass casualty event but its ok if it does not happen now, later is always possible. Then they will try to call some UNSC meeting which won't get very far.

I think i had posted about this silence in the uighur thread. Even the Pak militant outfits are ok with it. That is the surprising part.

Means even jihadis aren't stupid, they won't take on China or Russia but India/Israel are easy game. What I am surprised is why Imran expects the world to intervene regarding Kashmir but not Xinjiang. Article 370 and 35A have been abolished but we haven't witnessed a demographic change, nor will we see in future. Also interested to know if India would drag the Xinjiang issue if the international discussion on Kashmir gets worse....

[Double Edge]

China has not pushed very hard on Kashmir. Closed door session at the UNSC with no vote or statement in the end is as far as it went. All we had was the Pak & Chinese UN reps making statements, not the UNSC. Should that change then they have a few soft spots to exploit. They would rather not have any more hassle to deal with as they have enough on their plate.

Now, if your question is why aren't we taking advantage well we have a soft spot too right now therefore pointing out China's flaws would be counter-productive.

If jihadis aren't afraid of the Americans then why would Russians or Chinese scare them ? It's not like they haven't fought Russians before. Remember that Chinese in Pakistan are in the most dangerous place on earth to be Chinese. They have been attacked numerous times.

When we see China supporting the likes of Hafez Saeed for close to a decade maybe this acts as a sweetener. The Chinese help when expedient and the jihadis keep away. This continues so long as China can be of assistance of course in whatever way.

Forget jihadis, what about those kids in HK, a bunch of them stuck at it for over ten weeks and got China to cave. Taiwan gives them the finger too from time to time. Even Kim of all people has threatened them. His missile tests have demonstrated how he can hit their eastern seaboard and he only gives them half hour warning.

What this proves in an unambiguous way is the Paks have good control over their auxiliaries. This then can and should apply to India & Afghanistan as its proven with China.

[667medic]

China has not pushed very hard on Kashmir. Closed door session at the UNSC with no vote or statement in the end is as far as it went. All we had was the Pak & Chinese UN reps making statements, not the UNSC. Should that change then they have a few soft spots to exploit. They would rather not have any more hassle to deal with as they have enough on their plate.

Now, if your question is why aren't we taking advantage well we have a soft spot too right now therefore pointing out China's flaws would be counter-productive.

If jihadis aren't afraid of the Americans then why would Russians or Chinese scare them ? It's not like they haven't fought Russians before. Remember that Chinese in Pakistan are in the most dangerous place on earth to be Chinese. They have been attacked numerous times.

When we see China supporting the likes of Hafez Saeed for close to a decade maybe this acts as a sweetener. The Chinese help when expedient and the jihadis keep away. This continues so long as China can be of assistance of course in whatever way.

Forget jihadis, what about those kids in HK, a bunch of them stuck at it for over ten weeks and got China to cave. Taiwan gives them the finger too from time to time. Even Kim of all people has threatened them. His missile tests have demonstrated how he can hit their eastern seaboard and he only gives them half hour warning.

What this proves in an unambiguous way is the Paks have good control over their auxiliaries. This then can and should apply to India & Afghanistan as its proven with China.

It's one thing attacking Chinese in Pak versus attacking Chinese in Mainland. Whichever PAP general is in charge of that region would rub his hand in joys at the opportunity to show his mettle...