BJP puts 'no first use' nuclear policy in doubt

[commander]

You cannot weaponize thorium.

Sir, found this blog post about weaponizing Thorium, the guy who wrote it seems to be popular in this subject, did a google search on him.

Thorium Nuclear Bombs | KMB48

[Officer of Engineers]

If you read through it, it said that thorium bred U-233 can be made into bombs. In other words, still uranium, not thorium.

[commander]

If you read through it, it said that thorium bred U-233 can be made into bombs. In other words, still uranium, not thorium.

But Sir, from the blog,

The point being made here is that thorium can be used to make Uranium-233, which in turn can be used to make bombs.

So end of the day it can be weaponized . Correct ?

[Doktor]

But Sir, from the blog,

So end of the day it can be weaponized . Correct ?

This is like saying you can use water to illuminate something. (hint: tritium)

[commander]

This is like saying you can use water to illuminate something. (hint: tritium)

I take it as a Yes then ;)

[Doktor]

I take it as a Yes then ;)

Why noone did it?

Either it is

a. too complicated (read not worth it), or b. Not possible.

[commander]

Why noone did it?

Either it is

a. too complicated (read not worth it), or b. Not possible.

But Dok, in that blog he mentions how it was successfully separated without much complications like it's portrayed to be.

Interestingly, filtering these highly radioactive contaminants out of thorium bred U-233 is no mysterious process. The US’ own Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) created a process way back in the ’50s to do this. They kindly wrote about it in a history included in the ORNL Review publication:

By 1954, the Laboratory’s chemical technologists had completed a pilot plant demonstrating the ability of the THOREX process to separate thorium, protactinium, and uranium-233 from fission products and from each other. This process could isolate uranium-233 for weapons development and also for use as fuel in the proposed thorium breeder reactors.

So, there are no technical issues for separating out Uranium-233 for weapons development.

Also if this Wiki article is to be believed,

USGS Estimates in tonnes (2011)
Country Reserves
India 963,000
United States 440,000
Australia 300,000
Canada 100,000
South Africa 35,000
Brazil 16,000
Malaysia 4,500
Other Countries 90,000
World Total 1,913,000

If we are able to weaponize even a portion of it then it is time to start digging . Although why no one did it still stands , maybe it is downplayed ?

[Officer of Engineers]

Why noone did it?

It's damned easier to make weapons grade material from raw uranium. It's like getting 100% pure water from urine. Yeah, you can do it but it's damned easier just to filter the river water.

[Doktor]

My thoughts exactly, Col.

[Bigfella]

If we are able to weaponize even a portion of it then it is time to start digging . Although why no one did it still stands , maybe it is downplayed ?

If your aim is to make a weapon then thorium is a waste of resources. If your aim is to generate power then it may have advantages over uranium. You may still be able to weaponize the thorium if you wish, but apparently it has issues. Keep in mind that the nuclear power industry was ultimately a byproduct of the bomb building industry, not the other way around. If your object from the start was producing power uranium reactors might not have been the best path.

[sated buddha]

Point is India does not have uranium and is mainly dependent on other countries (Australia?) for it. While we have huge resources of thorium. So push come to shove while it may not be the ideal situation, nor the easiest or cheapest, it might be an alternative situation for boosting our nuclear stockpile. Cheaply. Unobtrusively. Dare I say clandestinely if need be.

Could that be what Mr. Joshi was alluding to?

[Bigfella]

Use it to produce power. Increasing electricity generation will do you more good than building more bombs. The extra economic activity generated from the power produced will more than pay for any extra uranium you decide you need.

[sated buddha]

Use it to produce power. Increasing electricity generation will do you more good than building more bombs. The extra economic activity generated from the power produced will more than pay for any extra uranium you decide you need.

Seems that we have more than double the reserves of the country with the next largest reserves. So a case could be made for diverting some of that to the security of the nation as well.

I don't think its so much an issue of cost (for the uranium), but the fact that we are dependent on other countries deciding to sell or not and at what terms and what strings attached. And the fact that any external yellowcake(?) would be closely accounted for and monitored by friend and foe alike, so that they would have a pretty good idea of what we were doing with it and what the impact on our stockpile in terms of inventory and timelines would be.

I think that may not be as easy with native thorium reserves. Don't know if civil facilities could be modified or diverted towards getting weapon's grade uranium from the thorium though. I guess that's the issue really.

Assuming we have 200 (and not the publicly touted 110-120) nukes currently, it would be good to build to a stockpile of at least 500 as a buffer against any Chinese designs. This is the number I have read a couple of places elsewhere as well so maybe its not without basis.

The Buddha has been smiling for well close to half a century now. Its time he was properly sated.

[Bigfella]

Seems that we have more than double the reserves of the country with the next largest reserves. So a case could be made for diverting some of that to the security of the nation as well.

I don't think its so much an issue of cost (for the uranium), but the fact that we are dependent on other countries deciding to sell or not and at what terms and what strings attached. And the fact that any external yellowcake(?) would be closely accounted for and monitored by friend and foe alike, so that they would have a pretty good idea of what we were doing with it and what the impact on our stockpile in terms of inventory and timelines would be

I'm betting that other countries will have a pretty good idea whether you are buying uranium or not.

I think that may not be as easy with native thorium reserves. Don't know if civil facilities could be modified or diverted towards getting weapon's grade uranium from the thorium though. I guess that's the issue really.

Apparently Thorium bombs have a nasty habit of not detonating quite when you want them to. How much money do you want to spend & how many tests do you want to carry out to find out if you can improve that? The latter is a real issue. Nuclear testing is a guaranteed way to increase tensions. Making functional Thorium bombs may actually cause more problems than just buying uranium.

Assuming we have 200 (and not the publicly touted 110-120) nukes currently, it would be good to build to a stockpile of at least 500 as a buffer against any Chinese designs. This is the number I have read a couple of places elsewhere as well so maybe its not without basis.

If China isn't put off by 200 then 500 won't do it.

The Buddha has been smiling for well close to half a century now. Its time he was properly sated.

The Buddha has bigger fish to fry. The threat China poses is that its economy & infrastructure has blown past you. It is building cities on virgin land and churning out modern weapons systems in vast quantities, while India are still struggling with the sort of fundamental problems associated with struggling 3rd world societies. The gap India needs to focus on isn't warheads. If you doubt that, look at how the last Cold War turned out. The real value of Thorium to India isn't in bomb making.

Thorium reactors: Asgard

[sated buddha]

Bigfella, the issue is about national security. Not parity with another country.

China is at status quo with 200. With 500, if nothing, that status quo just gets strengthened. That's a powerful incentive any which way you look at it.

If it can be done, and it needs to be done, India can and will do it. We have proven it in the past. On our own.

The Buddha will fry its own fish, in its own time, and of it own choosing. Small satellite western block umbrella countries with their unsolicited condescencion nothwithstanding.