India capable of US-like operation: Army chief

[troung]

India capable of US-like operation: Army chief
Lucknow, IANS
May 04, 2011
First Published: 20:26 IST(4/5/2011)
Last Updated: 20:27 IST(4/5/2011)
India capable of US-like operation: Army chief - Hindustan Times
Indian Army chief General VK Singh on Wednesday claimed that the country's defence forces were competent to undertake an US-like operation that killed al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. "We have the capability.....If situation arises, all the three wings (army, navy and air force) are competent in ca
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rrying out such an operation," Singh replied when journalists asked whether the Indian Army could carry out an operation like the US special forces undertook to kill the world's most dreaded terrorist in Pakistan on early Monday.

Asked whether the US took any assistance from Pakistan during the operation against bin Laden, Singh said, "How can I comment on this?....it is up to Pakistan and the US to clarify on the issue."

Singh was in Lucknow to inaugurate a new block at the Sainik School in the city.

During the function, Singh called upon the students to serve the country by joining the armed forces.

[troung]

Pakistan have been more trigger-happy with Indian aircraft
Pakistan have been more trigger-happy with Indian aircraft - India - DNA
Amid the clamour for an Abbotabad-like strike by Indian commandos to eliminate Dawood Ibrahim, a former intelligence officer points out the obvious: the Pakistan army might have missed or hesitated to act against the violation of their air space by US choppers, but they would certainly have been more trigger-happy with Indian aircraft. “The US and Pakistan are on friendly terms and the US military and air force have permission to operate in their territory and air space. India does not enjoy such liberties.”

After Operation Geronimo,Indian Army chief General VK Singh was quick to come out with a statement that has become a talking point: “All arms of the military are competent to carry out such an op.” Indian Air Force chief PV Naik also said that India has the capability to carry out such surgical strikes.
What they don’t spell out are two crucial pre-requisites for such strikes: political will and intelligence. On both counts, we have reason to worry.

Former IAF chief, FH Major, who was the chief of air staff during the 26/11 attack, says our tardy response exposed the lack of command and control of the various agencies participating in the operation. “These are government ops and do not belong only to the military.”

Retired Lt Gen HS Panag, who commanded the army’s Northern Command in J&K, “There are 10 SF battalions apart from NSG and there is also a Special Frontier Force, but there is no Special Forces command. Moreover, our training and equipment are 50% that of US special forces, and we can strike only 50-70 km into Pakistan. Our SF is only used for tactical purposes during war, never strategically for special operations.”

As for gathering intelligence on Dawood, Lt Gen PC Katoch, a Special Forces para-commando who led the SF team in the Golden Temple operation, points out what we’re up against: “The CIA operates as a CTPT (counter terrorism pursuit team) in Pakistan; can India do that?”

The Indian government’s announcement in the late 90s that no intelligence agents would go across the border further limited the options before our agencies. In contrast, Barack Obama announced last year that Special Forces would be deployed in 85 countries. “The US has around 3,000 operatives in Pakistan, whereas India does not have even 300. The CIA is very much at home in Pakistan, something that India can’t achieve,” says AS Dulat, former R&AW chief. Without accurate inputs from the ground, and no access to the kind of satellite imagery available to the US, Indian intelligence would be quite severely handicapped for any covert op inside Pakistan.

[Officer of Engineers]

Straight operations? It was a light infantry op. India is capable of it. So is all of NATO and the former Warsaw Pact. What is left unsaid is the discovery op. That is not within Indian capabilities.

[Blademaster]

Straight operations? It was a light infantry op. India is capable of it. So is all of NATO and the former Warsaw Pact. What is left unsaid is the discovery op. That is not within Indian capabilities.

I think you underestimate RAW's HUMINT capabilities in that region.

[Officer of Engineers]

I think you underestimate RAW's HUMINT capabilities in that region.

Actually, it was SIGINT that started this whole thing.

[Blademaster]

Actually, it was SIGINT that started this whole thing.

Actually, you may be surprised how much progress India is making on this front for that region. India has set up listening posts all across the border and setting up high altitude balloons capable of listening in to electronic communications.

[Officer of Engineers]

Actually, you may be surprised how much progress India is making on this front for that region. India has set up listening posts all across the border and setting up high altitude balloons capable of listening in to electronic communications.

No, Hitesh, you're not getting it. American computers isolated the one signal out of millions screaming for Osama's victory as the one true courier. I don't know how many OBL sympathizers there are in PakDef but there are more pro OBL posters than there are signal analysts to determine who is a legitimate AQ worker.

It is not the quantity of intel collected, it is the quality of the intel analyst, more specifically, the intel analyzing algorithms.

[Blademaster]

No, Hitesh, you're not getting it. American computers isolated the one signal out of millions screaming for Osama's victory as the one true courier. I don't know how many OBL sympathizers there are in PakDef but there are more pro OBL posters than there are signal analysts to determine who is a legitimate AQ worker.

It is not the quantity of intel collected, it is the quality of the intel analyst, more specifically, the intel analyzing algorithms.

Like I said, India is making progress. Yes India is not at the level of US but at least they are starting on the road that will take India to America's level.

[Dago]

No, Hitesh, you're not getting it. American computers isolated the one signal out of millions screaming for Osama's victory as the one true courier. I don't know how many OBL sympathizers there are in PakDef but there are more pro OBL posters than there are signal analysts to determine who is a legitimate AQ worker.

It is not the quantity of intel collected, it is the quality of the intel analyst, more specifically, the intel analyzing algorithms.

I find it hard to believe that a computer, or yet an algorithm, determined the courier's identity, or location, or even yet a signal of a phone call. I am sure they had some HUMMINT involved to localize the people and area. Either on the receiving end or what not.

This is 101 stuff. DEA type stuff... let the small fish go, turn him, monitor him, and wait until someone contacts him. This had to do with the group they monitored, and they pinpointed the courier after coming in contact with the op that was under surveillance.

[Officer of Engineers]

It does NOT end with the algorithm. It STARTS with it. All the algorithms did was to reduce the volume of data to a manageable level.

[Blademaster]

It does NOT end with the algorithm. It STARTS with it. All the algorithms did was to reduce the volume of data to a manageable level.

I remember that after the 9/11 attacks, there were reports saying that US had the raw data that an imminent attack was coming and it was aimed at NYC but the problem was that the raw data stream was like drinking water out of a fire hose. That's when US started ramping up analysis and collection and organization of data capabilities. They basically threw money at the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a tremendous amount of algorithms in the databanks that are so cutting edge and could advance the science of humanity by several decades but are so sensitive that we won't see them till like 50 years later when other technology has rendered them obsolete or redundant.

[astralis]

although statements such as the one by singh really don't make the indian armed forces look any better. somewhat akin to the inadequate man bragging how he's JUST as big...

much better if he just said "i will not discuss our capabilities in open forum. end of story."

[nvishal]

^Indian media makes you do that sometimes

[S2]

nvishal Reply

"Indian media makes you do that sometimes"

A gun to their head? No. It's a bad impulse of rising to bait. Both the discovery and execution were difficult ops. The political risk associated with the latter was beyond India's acceptable threshold IMV.

Discovery attained a confidence level of OBL's presence well below 100%. Still, 60% or so was far higher than previously attained thus triggering action. Not without great risk of an empty bag or operational failure from poor execution however.

Either would have led to massive egg on America's face-but only egg. Had it been India even full success would have required reprisal from Pakistan.

The execution was near flawless in design but Murphy's presence is ever-looming. Murphy prevented the capture of OBL's wives and children. We lost a treasure-trove of intel and full management of the information war as a result.

Nonetheless, the penetration of Pakistani airspace was simply marvelous. I'm unconvinced there were many other nations capable of executing such.

[antimony]

although statements such as the one by singh really don't make the indian armed forces look any better. somewhat akin to the inadequate man bragging how he's JUST as big...

much better if he just said "i will not discuss our capabilities in open forum. end of story."

I agree, rank stupidity on the general's part. Dr. Manmohan Singh quelled any such ideas anyway.