NATO vs. Warsaw Pact

[Officer of Engineers]

And if we are counting out nukes as somehow not being around would Lop Nor matter or be worth sending Divisions to take? Of course it does seem remote enough to prevent a peoples war from breaking out. With no nukes they would have a totally different plan more then likely.

The more I think about this, the more I think taking Lop Nor is a strategic necessity. It's relatively easy to take and it's smack well on the entrance into southern and central China. It would take out the LZ MR and put another one (Chengdu) at risk.

[troung]

Yeah I have since looked at the map and seen where it puts them. Are not as many people as on the coasts and the units in Central Asia would be a dagger pointed at China.

How many of those 45 divisions would they need to get there?

[Julie]

You single people really kill me ya know. You have NO idea how hard it is to have a peaceful few minutes just to discuss some interesting topic without the "other half" or the "kids" always wanting something. And yes, (OoE), I personally believe, those wants are to intentionally disrupt our train of thought while sitting at our keyboards.

I'll have to give it to your patience though.....4 TIMES? Go for the "strained back scenario."

[dalem]

You single people really kill me ya know. You have NO idea how hard it is to have a peaceful few minutes just to discuss some interesting topic without the "other half" or the "kids" always wanting something. And yes, (OoE), I personally believe, those wants are to intentionally disrupt our train of thought while sitting at our keyboards.

I'll have to give it to your patience though.....4 TIMES? Go for the "strained back scenario."

Here we have it - two posts proving that married people encourage us single people to join them for all the wrong reasons. :)

-dale

[Bill]

"If we pushed this 10 years ahead with no nukes the Russians would be much better in terms of mobility and airpower. "

If we push the start of hostilities from 1973 to 1983 you are talking about a FAR more powerful NATO, and an all volunteer US professional military with good morale.

IMO in 1983 NATO cleans the WP's clock.

[lwarmonger]

What's left after they pushed through the Fulda Gap? The 2Guards and 3Shock would be in no shape to push on. They need to be rebuilt and regroup. In the meantime, NATO reserves would already be starting to see the battlefield and REFORGER in full swing.

This also assumes that III, V, and VII Corps were all completely destroyed instead of falling back in good order or even managing a salient. Not a valid assumption given the speed to which 2Guards and 3Shock must achieve.

I believe the 2nd Guards Tank and Third Shock Armies were deployed against NORTHAG. As I recall, it was the 8th Guards and First Guards Tank that were deployed against the Fulda Gap, with the 20th Guards Army surrounding Berlin, but easily diverted either against NORTHAG or CENTAG. And after 10 days, wouldn't the category B and C divisions (not to mention the remaining category A divisions in Russia) come up to form the second echelon? Rebuilding the armies that were used to blast a whole immediately strikes me as a waste of time, just bringing on the follow on formations should be sufficient to take the rest of Germany. The Soviet Union had a lot of category B and C divisions to play with. Also, wasn't reaching the Rhine in 10 days through the Fulda Gap necessary in order to stop reforger (hence the entire reason why the Soviets were on that timetable)? If they've taken the pre-positioned equipment, then those heavy divisions become light infantry, and of extremely limited value.

In regards to your point about American battle readyness at that point, I am assuming that the III, V, and VII corps are all fairly badly damaged... at least as much as the Soviets. If the Soviets reach the Rhine in 10 days, it wasn't because the Americans let them, but because we were defeated in West Germany. Those corps would probably be at least as mauled as the Soviet forces facing them (our policy of forward defense means that if NATO gets pushed out of West Germany, odds are it has been hurt at least as bad, probably worse than, the WP). Even if they weren't, they've lost their reforger sites and prepositioned equipment, so they are both substantially weaker anyways.

Look at the map, it will have to be a 2 front war (sort of speak) against China. The Beijing (gee, B and J abbrevation don't work here) and SY MRs directly threaten Vladivostok. The Lanzhou MR directly threaten Central Asia. Do you think 45 divisions is enough?

Do you sir? Serious question, I'm not trying to be flippant here. You said yourself, there is no way the Chinese can kill those 45 Soviet divisions. They can probably occupy them, but beat them, no. If the decision in Europe takes 2 months, can the Soviet Far East divisions last that long? If 20-30 category C formations (still leaving plenty for the West) are dispatched to the East, would that seriously damage the Soviet war effort in Germany?

Personally, I think that those Soviet divisions can hold out with minimal support against a Chinese attack, simply because the Chinese lack the ability to attack with heavy formations at the objectives they need to take. Sure, they can send foot armies around in Siberia, but those won't do a whole lot of good. In Central Asia, Soviet mechanized forces possess a huge advantage over their foot equivalent (both in terms of supply and capabilities), and the Chinese wouldn't be able to take anything all that important before that two month time span is up.

[Officer of Engineers]

I believe the 2nd Guards Tank and Third Shock Armies were deployed against NORTHAG. As I recall, it was the 8th Guards and First Guards Tank that were deployed against the Fulda Gap, with the 20th Guards Army surrounding Berlin, but easily diverted either against NORTHAG or CENTAG.

Depends on which scenario you use. The actual deployment plan is still a classified state secret in Moscow.

3rd Armoured Division - ONE SCENARIO AND NATO'S MAIN CONCERN
over a Soviet ground attack during 1956-1989

The Central Sector GSFG concentration of invasion forces through the Fulda Gap into Western Europe included elements of the 2nd Guard Tank Army, 1st Guard Tank Army and 20th, 3rd and 8th Guards and Shock Armies as well as the Volksarmee (the East German Army). The thrust of this mighty army would be through the Fulda Gap against the U.S. Army's V Corps, of which the 3rd Armored Division (3AD) was lead element (see map). The general direction of that huge Soviet vector was on a Berlin to Paris axis, whose strategic objectives included advancing beyond Paris to the English Channel. The GSFG numbered 370,000 men, 7,000 tanks, and 2,350 Infantry Fighting Vehicles. In the Northern Sector between East and West Germany (see arrow), five Soviet armored divisions would thrust westward, swinging northward deep into Denmark. In the Southern Sector (see arrow), the Soviet Central Group of Forces, stationed in Czechoslovakia, plus the Czechoslovak army, a combined group of 15 armored and mechanized divisions, would thrust through Bavaria in the general direction of Switzerland.

And after 10 days, wouldn't the category B and C divisions (not to mention the remaining category A divisions in Russia) come up to form the second echelon?

I'm under the assumption that the mobilization has not even started. We can bring the air elements of REFORGER in place alot sooner than they can man even the Cat B divisions.

Rebuilding the armies that were used to blast a whole immediately strikes me as a waste of time, just bringing on the follow on formations should be sufficient to take the rest of Germany. The Soviet Union had a lot of category B and C divisions to play with.

It's alot faster to insert companies and battalions into decimated formations than to bring a fresh division forward when a warning order was not even issued.

Also, wasn't reaching the Rhine in 10 days through the Fulda Gap necessary in order to stop reforger (hence the entire reason why the Soviets were on that timetable)?

Just reaching the Rhine ain't going to stop REFORGER. The Rhine has always been considered the 2nd line of defence (the first is the FGR-GDR and the FGR-CSSR borders). There were delayed actions already in place to get the bulk of the forces across if the 1st line is deemed unattainable. Thus, just because the Soviets reached the Rhine within 10 days did not mean the corps are destroyed.

If they've taken the pre-positioned equipment, then those heavy divisions become light infantry, and of extremely limited value.

That is if they can take those positions before they're manned.

In regards to your point about American battle readyness at that point, I am assuming that the III, V, and VII corps are all fairly badly damaged... at least as much as the Soviets. If the Soviets reach the Rhine in 10 days, it wasn't because the Americans let them, but because we were defeated in West Germany. Those corps would probably be at least as mauled as the Soviet forces facing them (our policy of forward defense means that if NATO gets pushed out of West Germany, odds are it has been hurt at least as bad, probably worse than, the WP). Even if they weren't, they've lost their reforger sites and prepositioned equipment, so they are both substantially weaker anyways.

Not valid at all. The Soviets ain't going to try to maul every line brigade or even division. They would be looking for a breakthrough point and then bypass then supposedly strong pockets of resistence (meaning leaving perfectly combat capable forces in their lines of march. They were relying on follow on echelons to deal with these forces. That is assuming that these forces do not beat a hasty retreat across the Rhine.

Do you sir? Serious question, I'm not trying to be flippant here. You said yourself, there is no way the Chinese can kill those 45 Soviet divisions. They can probably occupy them, but beat them, no.

1st, look at a map of China's military regions



This essentially means two fronts. One against the Lanzhou Military Region and the other against the Beijing and Shenyang Military Regions.

Now, see what both threaten? The LZMR can cut the Siberian railway and the BJMR and SYMR directly marches to Vladivostok. The Soviets in the West can easily deal with the LZMR, maybe using 10 divisions to take Lop Nor and poised to strike into the heart of China. Even if the Soviets don't march into China, any force that marches out of Lop Nor can easily be dealt with given the terrain but the strategic imperative is there to go into the LZMR (get the PLA as far away from the railway as possible).

This being said, however, you're now in direct conflict with the strongest of all of China's MRs (mainly because of terrain). The Chengdu MR can easily throw another two or three corps against Lop Nor.

The East, however, is a whole another can of worms. You have 3 garrisons (Beijing, Harbin, and Shenyang) that directly threatens Vladivostok. Do you sit in the city with no prepared defences or do you march against those 3 PLA garrisons? You obviously cannot allow the PLA to run around freely in Siberia but they have more men and you cannot spread your forces out to hunt every regiment. They can.

The Soviets attacking seemed the better bet but with only 45 divisions, taking the 3 garrisons ain't going to be easy and certainly requiring rapid re-enforcements.

If the decision in Europe takes 2 months, can the Soviet Far East divisions last that long? If 20-30 category C formations (still leaving plenty for the West) are dispatched to the East, would that seriously damage the Soviet war effort in Germany?

Let me qualify myself here. In 1973, the Soviet Far East divisions were at full strength in preparation for a nuke strike to Lop Nor. Cat B and C divisions would not have been mobilized, otherwise, giving NATO plenty of warning to man their own defences.

Thus, here is the situation, do you throw your hastily formed battalions and regiments against NATO or against China and if against China, at the LZMR or the BJMR/SYMR?

[Julie]

Here we have it - two posts proving that married people encourage us single people to join them for all the wrong reasons. :)

-dale

It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. ;)

[Officer of Engineers]

It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. ;)

Misery loves company.

[Officer of Engineers]

lwarmonger,

Forget the 10 days to Rhine scenario. That depended on nukes.

“Approved” Single Copy

Supreme Commander

of the Armed Forces of the ČSSR

Antonín Novotný

1964

Plan of Actions of the Czechoslovak People’s Army for War Period

Map 1: 500,000, published 1963



1. Conclusions from the assessment of the enemyThe enemy could use up to 12 general military units on the Central European military theater for advancing in the area of the Czechoslovak Front from D1 to D 7-8.

-- The 2nd Army Corps of the FRG [Federal Republic of Germany] including: 4th and 10th mechanized divisions, 12th tank division, 1st airborne division and 1st mountain division,

-- the 7th Army Corps of the USA including: the 24th mechanized division and 4th armored tank division;

-- the 1st Army of France including: 3rd mechanized division, the 1st and 7th tank divisions, and up to two newly deployed units, including 6 launchers of tactical missiles, up to 130 theater launchers and artillery, and up to 2800 tanks.

Operations of the ground troops could be supported by part of the 40th Air Force, with up to 900 aircraft, including 250 bombers and up to 40 airborne missile launchers.

Judging by the composition of the group of NATO troops and our assessment of the exercises undertaken by the NATO command, one could anticipate the design of the enemy's actions with the following goals.

To disorganize the leadership of the state and to undermine mobilization of armed forces by surprise nuclear strikes against the main political and economic centers of the country.

To critically change the correlation of forces in its own favor by strikes against the troops, airfields and communication centers.

To destroy the border troops of the Czechoslovak People’s Army in border battles, and to destroy the main group of our troops in the Western and Central Czech Lands by building upon the initial attack.

To disrupt the arrival of strategic reserves in the regions of Krkonoše, Jeseníky, and Moravská Brána by nuclear strikes against targets deep in our territory and by sending airborne assault troops; to create conditions for a successful attainment of the goals of the operation.

Judging by the enemy's approximate operative design, the combat actions of both sides in the initial period of the war will have a character of forward contact battles.

The operative group of the enemy in the southern part of the FRG will force the NATO command to gradually engage a number of their units in the battle, which will create an opportunity for the Czechoslovak Front to defeat NATO forces unit by unit. At the same time, that would require building a powerful first echelon in the operative structure of the Front; and to achieve success it would require building up reserves that would be capable of mobilizing very quickly and move into the area of military action in a very short time.



2. Upon receiving special instructions from the Supreme Commander of the Unified Armed Forces, the Czechoslovak People’s Army will deploy to the Czechoslovak Front with the following tasks:

To be ready to start advancing toward Nuremberg, Stuttgart and Munich with part of forces immediately after the nuclear strike. Nuclear strike against the troops of the enemy should be targeted to the depth up to the line Würzburg, Erlangen, Regensburg, Landshut.

The immediate task is to defeat the main forces of the Central Group of the German Army in the southern part of the FRG, in cooperation with the [Soviet] 8th Guards Army of the 1st Western Front; by the end of the first day—reach the line Bayreuth, Regensburg, Passau; and by the end of the second day—move to the line Höchstadt, Schwabach, Ingolstadt, Mühldorf, and by the fourth day of the attack —reach the line Mosbach, Nürtingen, Memmingen, Kaufbeuren.

In the future, building upon the advance in the direction of Strasbourg, Epinal, Dijon, to finalize the defeat of the enemy in the territory of the FRG, to force a crossing of the river Rhine, and on the seventh or eighth day of the operation to take hold of the line Langres, Besançon.

Afterward develop the advance toward Lyon.

To have in the combat disposition of the Czechoslovak Front the following units:

-- the 1st and 4th Armies, 10th Air Army, 331st front missile brigade, 11th, 21st and the 31st mobile missile support base in the state of combat alert.

-- the reserve center of the Army, the 3rd, 18th, 26th, and 32nd mechanized rifle divisions, 14th and 17th tank divisions, 22nd airborne brigade, 205th antitank brigade, 303rd air defense division, 201st and 202nd air defense regiments with mobilization timetable from M1 to M3.

-- the formations, units and facilities of the support and service system.

The 57th Air Army, arriving on D1 from the Carpathian military district before the fifth or sixth day of the operation, will be operatively subordinated to the Czechoslovak Front. If Austria keeps its neutrality on the third day of the war, one mechanized rifle division of the Southern Group of Forces will arrive in the area of České Budějovice and join the Czechoslovak Front. The following forces will remain at the disposal of the Ministry of National Defense: the 7th air defense army, 24th mechanized rifle division and 16th tank division with readiness M20, reconnaissance units, and also units and facilities of the support and service system. Under favorable conditions two missile brigades and one mobile missile support base will arrive some time in advance in the territory of the ČSSR from the Carpathian military district:

-- 35th missile brigade—past Český Brod, past Říčany, Zásmuky,

-- 36th missile brigade – past Pacov, past Pelhřimov, past Humpolec,

-- 3486th mobile missile support base – woods 5 kilometers to the East of Světlá.

Formations and units of the Czechoslovak People’s Army, on permanent alert, upon the announcement of combat alarm should leave their permanent location in no more than 30 minutes, move to designated areas within 3 hours, and deploy there ready to carry out their combat tasks. Formations, units and headquarters that do not have set mobilization dates, leave their locations of permanent deployment and take up the identified areas of concentration in the time and in the order determined by the plan of mobilization and deployment. The following disposition of forces is possible in the area of operations of the Czechoslovak Front for the entire depth of the operation:

-- in divisions – 1.1 to 1.0

-- in tanks and mobile artillery launchers – 1.0 to 1.0

-- in artillery and mine-launchers – 1.0 to 1.0

-- in military aircraft – 1.1 to 1.0, all in favor of the Czechoslovak Front.

In the first massive nuclear strike by the troops of the Missile Forces of the Czechoslovak Front, the front aviation and long-range aviation added to the front must destroy the main group of troops of the first operations echelon of the 7th US Army, its means of nuclear attack, and the centers of command and control of the aviation.

During the development of the operation, the troops of the Missile Forces and aviation must destroy the approaching deep operative reserves, the newly discovered means of nuclear attack, and the enemy aviation.

Altogether the operation will require the use of 131 nuclear missiles and nuclear bombs; specifically 96 missiles and 35 nuclear bombs. The first nuclear strike will use 41 missiles and nuclear bombs. The immediate task will require using 29 missiles and nuclear bombs. The subsequent task could use 49 missiles and nuclear bombs. 12 missiles and nuclear bombs should remain in the reserve of the Front.

Building on the results of the first nuclear strike, the troops of the Front, in coordination with units of the 1st Western Front must destroy the main group of troops of the 7th US Army and the 1st French Army in cooperation with airborne assault troops, force the rivers Neckar and Rhine in crossing, and defeat the advancing deep strategic reserves of the enemy in advancing battle, and by D7-8 take control of the areas of Langres, Besançon, and Epinal.

Upon completion of the tasks of the operation the troops must be ready to develop further advances in the direction of Lyon.

The main strike should be concentrated in the direction of Nuremberg, Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Epinal, Dijon; part of the forces should be used on the direction of Straubing and Munich.

The operative structure of the troops of the Czechoslovak Front is to be in one echelon with separation of two tank and five mechanized rifle divisions for the reserve as they arrive and are deployed. The first echelon shall consist of the 1st and 4th armies and the 331st front missile brigade.

The reserve of the front includes: Headquarters of the 2nd Army (reserve), mechanized rifle division of the Southern Group of Forces by D3, 14th tank division by D3, 17th tank division by D4, 3rd mechanized rifle division by D3, 26th mechanized rifle division by D4, 18th mechanized rifle division by D5, and 32nd mechanized rifle division by D6.

Special reserves include: 22nd airborne brigade by D2, 103rd chemical warfare batallion by D2, 6th engineering brigade by D3, and 205th antitank artillery by D4.



3. On the right – the 8th Guards Army of the 1st Western Front advances in the direction of Suhl, Bad Kissingen, and Worms and with part of its forces to Bamberg.

The separation line with the Army is the ČSSR-GDR border as far as Aš, then Bayreuth, Mosbach, and Sarrebourg, Chaumont (all points exclusively for the Czechoslovak Front).

The meeting point with the 8th Guards Army should be supported by the forces and means of the Czechoslovak Front.

On the left – the Southern Group of Forces and the Hungarian People’s Army will cover the state borders of Hungary.

The dividing line with them: state border of the ČSSR with the Hungarian People’s Republic, and then the northern borders of Austria, Switzerland, and Italy.



4. The 1st Army (19th and 20th mechanized rifle divisions, 1st and 13th tank divisions, 311st artillery missile brigade) with 312nd heavy artillery brigade, 33rd antitank artillery brigade without 7th antitank artillery regiment, the 2nd bridge-building brigade without the 71st bridge-building battalion, the 351st and 352nd engineering battalions of the 52nd engineering brigade.

The immediate task is to defeat the enemy’s group of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG and the 7th US Army in interaction with the 8th Guards Army of the 1st Western Front, and to develop advance in the direction of Neustadt, Nuremberg, Ansbach, and with part of forces in interaction with units of the 8th Guards Army in the direction of Bamberg, by D1 to take control of the line Bayreuth, Amberg, Schmidmühlen; and by the end of D2 to arrive on the line Höchstadt, Schwabach, Heiden.

The further task is to advance in the direction of Ansbach, Crailsheim, Stuttgart; to defeat the advancing operative reserves of the enemy, and by the end of D4 take control of the line past Mosbach, Bietigheim, Nürtingen.

Subsequently to be ready to develop the advance in the direction of Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Epinal.

The dividing line on the left is Poběžovice, Schwandorf, Weissenburg, Heidenheim, Reutlingen (all the points except Heidenheim, are inclusive for the 1st Army).

Headquarters – in the forest 1 kilometer south of Stříbro.

The axis of the movement is Stříbro, Grafenwöhr, Ansbach, Schwäbisch Hall.



5. The 4th Army (2nd and 15th mechanized rifle divisions, 4th and 9th tank divisions, 321st artillery missile brigade) with 7th antitank artillery brigade and 33rd antitank artillery brigade, 71st bridge-building battalion of the 2nd bridge-building brigade, 92nd bridge-building battalion and 353rd engineering battalion.

The immediate task is to defeat the enemy group of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG in cooperation with the troops of the 1st Army and to develop advance in the direction of Regensburg, Ingolstadt, Donauwörth, and with part of forces in the direction Straubing, Munich; and by the end of D1 to take control of the line Schmidmühlen, Regensburg, Passau; by the end of D2 – Eichstätt, Moosburg, Mühldorf.

The subsequent task is to advance in the direction of Donauwörth, Ulm, to defeat the advancing formations of the 1st French Army and by the end of D4 to take control of the line Metzingen, Memmingen, Kaufbeuren.

Subsequently to be ready to develop advance in the direction of Ulm, Mulhouse, Besançon. Headquarters – 6 kilometers northwest of Strakonice.

The axis of movement is – Strakonice, Klatovy, Falkenstein, Kelheim, Rennertshofen, Burgau.



6. The Missile Forces of the Front must in the first nuclear strike destroy the group of forces of the 7th US Army, part of forces of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG, and part of the air defense forces of the enemy.

Subsequently, the main efforts should be concentrated on defeating the advancing operative and strategic reserves and also the newly discovered means of nuclear attack of the enemy.

In order to fulfill the tasks set to the front, the following ammunition shall be used:

-- for the immediate task--44 operative-tactical and tactical missiles with nuclear warheads;

-- for the subsequent task--42 operative-tactical and tactical missiles with nuclear warheads;

-- for unexpectedly arising tasks--10 operative-tactical and tactical missiles with nuclear warheads shall be left in the Front’s reserve.

The commander of Missile Forces shall receive special assembly brigades with special ammunition, which shall be transferred to the Czechoslovak Front in the following areas: 2 kilometers to the East of Jablonec, and 3 kilometers to the East of Michalovce.

The use of special ammunition–only with permission of the Supreme Commander of the Unified Armed Forces.



7. Aviation. The 10th Air Force– the 1st fighter division, 2nd and 34th fighter-bomber division, 25th bomber regiment, 46th transport air division, 47thair reconnaissance regiment and 45th air reconnaissance regiment for target guidance.

Combat tasks:

With the first nuclear strike to destroy part of forces of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG, two command and targeting centers, and part of the air defense forces of the enemy.

Upon the beginning of combat actions to suppress part of air defense forces of the enemy in the following regions: Roding, Kirchroth, Hohenfels, Amberg, Pfreimd, Nagel, and Erbendorf.

To uncover and destroy operative and tactical means of nuclear attack, command and control aviation forces in the following regions: Weiden, Nabburg, Amberg, Grafenwöhr, Hohenfels, Regensburg, and Erlangen.

During the operation to give intensive support to combat actions of the troops of the front: on D1 – 6 group sorties of fighter bombers, from D2 to D5 – 8 group sorties of fighter bombers and bombers daily, and from D6 to D8 – 6 group sorties of fighter bombers and bombers daily. The main effort should be concentrated on supporting the troops of the 1st Army.

In cooperation with forces and means of the air defense of the country, fronts and neighbors – to cover the main group of forces of the Front from air strikes by the enemy.

To ensure the landing of reconnaissance troops and general airborne forces on D1 and D2 in the rear of the enemy.

To ensure airborne landing of the 22nd airborne brigade on D4 in the area north of Stuttgart, or on D5 in the area of Rastatt, or on D6 in the area to the east of Mulhouse.

To carry out air reconnaissance with concentration of main effort on the direction of Nuremberg, Stuttgart, and Strasbourg with the goal of locating means of nuclear attack, and in order to determine in time the beginning of operations and the direction of the advancing operative reserves of the enemy.

In order to fulfill the tasks set for the front, it will be required to use the following weapons:

-- for the immediate task -- 10 nuclear bombs;

-- for subsequent tasks – 7 nuclear bombs;

-- for resolving unexpectedly arising tasks – 2 nuclear bombs shall be left in the Front’s reserve.

The 57th Air Force, consisting of the 131st fighter division, 289th fighter-bomber regiment, 230th and 733rd bomber regiment and 48th air reconnaissance regiment, arriving by D1 from the Carpathian military district, is to remain under operative subordination to the Czechoslovak Front until the fifth to sixth day for 5 army sorties.

The Army has a determined the limit of: combat sets of air bombs – 3, combat sets of air-to-air missiles – 2, combat sets of aviation cartridges – 2, and fuel – 3 rounds of army refueling.

Combat tasks:

-- in cooperation with the 10th Air Force to find and destroy the means of nuclear attack of the enemy, its aviation and command and control centers with concentration of main efforts on the direction of Nuremberg, Strasbourg;

-- to support combat actions of the troops of the Front when they force the rivers Naab, Neckar, Rhine, and when they counter attackof the enemy;

-- to support combat actions of the 22nd airborne brigade in the areas of its landing;

-- to protect the troops of the front from air strikes by the enemy;

-- to carry out air reconnaissance with concentration of the main effort on discovering the means of nuclear attack and deep operative and strategic reserves of the enemy.

The 184th heavy bomber regiment of long-range aviation should use nuclear bombs in the first nuclear strike against headquarters of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG, 7th US Army, 2nd/40 Corporal artillery batallion, 2nd/82 Corporal artillery batallion, 5th/73 Sergeant artillery batallion, and the main group of forces of the 4th mechanized division and 12th tank division of the 2nd Army Corps of the FRG. Total use of nuclear bombs – 16. Use of special combat ammunition –only with permission of the Supreme Commander of the Unified Armed Forces.



8. Air Defense

7th Air Defense Army of the country – 2nd and 3rd air defense corps.

Combat tasks:

-- in cooperation with air defense forces of the Front and the air defense of the neighbors in the united air defense system of countries of the Warsaw Treaty to repel massive air strikes of the enemy with concentration of main effort on the direction Karlsruhe, Prague, Ostrava.

-- not to allow reconnaissance and air strikes of the enemy against our groups of forces, especially in the area of the Czech Lands, against aircraft on the airfields, and against important political and economic centers of the country, as well as communications centers. The main effort should be concentrated on protecting the areas of Prague, Ostrava, Brno and Bratislava;

-- upon the beginning of combat actions, troops of the Czechoslovak Front with anti-aircraft missile forces to continue to defend most important areas and objects of the country, with forces of fighter aviation to defend objects of the Front after the advancing troops.


Air Defense troops of the Front

Combat tasks:

--Upon the beginning of combat action of the Front, to take part in the general air defense system of the Warsaw Treaty countries with all forces and resources to cover the main group of the Front's troops.

--During the operation, in cooperation with the 7th Air Defense Army, units of 10th and 57th Air Force and the air defense of the 1st Western Front, to cover the troops of the front from the air strikes of the enemy in the process of their passing over the border mountains, and also during the crossing of the rivers Neckar and Rhine to cover the missile forces and command and control centers



9. The 22nd airborne brigade is to be ready to be deployed from the region of Prostějov, Niva, Brodek to the region north of Stuttgart on D4 or to the region of Rastatt on D5, or to the region to the east of Mulhouse on D6 with the task of capturing and holding river crossings on Neckar or Rhine until the arrival of our troops.



10. Reserves of the Front.

The 3rd, 18th, 26th, and 32nd mechanized rifle divisions of the Southern Group of Forces, the 14th and 17th tank divisions are to concentrate in the regions designated on the decision map in the period from D3 to D5.

The 6th engineering brigade by D3 is to be concentrated in the region of Panenský Týnec, and Bor, past Slaný, to be ready to ensure force crossing of the rivers Neckar and Rhine by the troops of the Front.

The 103rd chemical warfare batallion from D2 to be stationed in the region of Hluboš, past Příbram, past Dobříš. The main effort of radiation reconnaissance should be concentrated in the region of Hořovice, Blovice, and Sedlčany.

Objects of special treatment should be deployed in the areas of deployment of command and control centers of the Front, the 331st front brigade, and also in the regions of concentration of the reserve divisions of the Front.



11. Material Maintenance of the Rear The main effort in the material maintenance of the rear of the troops of the Front should be concentrated throughout the entire depth of the operation in the area of the 1st Army's advance.

To support the troops of the 1st Army, the 10th and 57th Air Forces should deploy to the forward front base number 1 and the base of the 10th Air Force in the region to the West of Plzeň by the end of D2; troops of the 4th Army should deploy the forward front base number 2 in the region to the south of Plzeň.

Field pipeline is to be deployed in the direction of Roudnice, Plzeň, Nuremberg, and Karlsruhe and used for provision of aircraft fuel.

Rebuilding of railroads should be planned on the directions Cheb-Nuremberg or Domažlice-Schwandorf-Regensburg-Donauwörth.

Two roads should be built following the 1st Army, and one front road throughout the entire depth of the operation following the 4th Army.

The Ministry of National Defense of the ČSSR will assign material resources, including full replacement of the ammunition used during the operation for the troops of the Czechoslovak Front.

Support for the 57th Air Force should be planned taking into account the material resources located in the territory of the ČSSR for the Unified Command.

Use of material resources should be planned as follows:

-- ammunition – 45,000 tons

-- combustible-lubricating oil – 93, 000 tons

-- including aircraft fuel – 40, 000 tons

-- missile fuel:

-- oxidizer—220 tons

-- missile fuel – 70 tons

Automobile transportation of the Front should be able to supply the troops with 70, 000 tons of cargo during the operation.

Transportation of the troops should be able to carry 58, 000 tons of cargo. By the end of the operation the troops should have 80% of mobile reserves available. In D1 and D2 hospital bed network for 10 to 12 thousand sick and wounded personnel is to be deployed.

By the end of the operation the hospital bed network should cover 18% of the hospital losses of the Front.



12. Headquarters of the Front should be deployed from the time “X” plus 6 hours –5 kilometers to the east of Strašice. The axis of movement – Heilbronn, Horb, Epinal.

Reserve Command Post – forest, to the north of Březová

Advanced Command Post – forest 5 kilometers to the east of Dobřany

Rear Command Post – Jince-Obecnice

Reserve Rear Command Post – past Dobřany, Slapy, past Mníše

Headquarters of MNO – object K-116, Prague.





Minister of National Defense of the ČSSR

General of the Army [signed] Bohumír Lomský

Head of the General Staff of Czechoslovak People’s Army

Colonel General [signed] Otakar Rytíř



Head of the Operations Department of the General Staff

Major General [signed] Václav Vitanovský

11 October 1964



[Rectangular seal:]

Ministry of National Defense

General Staff – Operations Department

Section: Operations Room

Received: 20.10.1964

No. 008074/ZD-OS 64, 17 sheets



Executed in one copy of 17 sheets

Executed by Major General Jan Voštera

[signed] Gen. Voštera

14 October 1964



[Translated from the original Russian by Dr. Svetlana Savranskaya, Research Fellow, National Security Archive, George Washington University, and Anna Locher, Research Assistant, Center for Security Studies and Conflict Research, Zurich.]

[troung]

I think NATO would have a good shot with the tank battles.

The Chieftan as used by Iran was able to actually take head on hits from 115mm AP T-62 guns and stay in the fight. Soviet guns generally had bigger bores but the shells themselves were not as good.

The bulk of the Soviet/WP tank fleet would have been the 100mm armed T-55 and 115mm T-62. NATO had a strong tank fleet with Chieftans (best armed and armored tank around), M-60, M-48A3/A5, Leo-1, Centurion and even the AMX-30 (HEAT rounds still worked very well back in 1973). The NATO L-7 105mm gun could kill any practically any tank at the time, in fact it could kill T-72s head on. The 120mm on the Chieftan could kill anything. Now on the flip side the WP could have more or less killed any NATO tank. Even a BMD-1 could kill an M-60 with its gun or the AT-3 on top. This was before ERA so HEAT rounds were even more deadly then they are today (compared to the most capable tanks at the time) and 1973 put the fear of god into tankers.

Now post Yom Kipper/Rahmadan War and the fact the lessons had not been fully understood there would be no doubt fears of Soviet units with AT-3s and RPG-7s inflicted big time tank losses.

The Soviets would be flooding the rear lines with paratroopers and commandos which would have been lavishly armed with anti tank weapons and no doubt caused much confusion to NATO units in the rear and the ones moving up to the front. Of course the BMD-1 which entered service in 1970 was only shown to the world in 1973 (late 73) and would have caused big time confusion giving Russian airborne mobility and firepower. Put some of those 9 WP airborne divisions behind the lines along with commandos and one has a lot of confusion.

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1980s WP vs. NATO is more fun

[lwarmonger]

1980s WP vs. NATO is more fun

Because we win hands down. After Reagan's arms buildup and the new generation of weapons platforms, the Soviets stopped having a chance with merely conventional means.

[Bill]

"The Soviets would be flooding the rear lines with paratroopers and commandos which would have been lavishly armed with anti tank weapons and no doubt caused much confusion to NATO units in the rear and the ones moving up to the front."

I don't see Soviet transports operating in NATO controlled airspace as a realistic possibility.

[Officer of Engineers]

Actually, this raises another point. We were expected to air insert TF and battle groups against the 2nd and 3rd echelon assembly points but to this day, I've not heard which units were tasked with that nor how was it to be achieved?

[Bill]

That makes two of us.