Originally posted by USSWisconsin
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Are Historians Now Overstating the Role of the U.S.S.R. in defeating Nazi Germany?
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Originally posted by 1979 View Postdespite the efforts of aces like Ruddell, the tank busting aircraft was not very cost effective, generally they lost one ju-87 for every tank destroyed.
btw i got the year wrong , it was early 44 not 43.
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Originally posted by Tanker View PostRudel in one claim states numerous sorties in a day.
The only thing for certain was that German tanks and AT guns were damned busy.
Edit: I found this reference, I do not know its accuracy ... but ...
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/show...a-topic./page8
The Stuka could do 30m CEP in Experten hands, although in regular hands it might be closer to 100m CEP.Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 04 Feb 12,, 05:59.
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Originally posted by Tanker View PostThe eastern Front was the only Place the Stukas had no predators.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostHow many of them were misses? Once bomb release, they lose visual lock and all they see is some smoke. They may or may not have hit the tank.
The only thing for certain was that German tanks and AT guns were damned busy.
Edit: I found this reference, I do not know its accuracy ... but ...
If true, this was not the tank killer the German birds purpotted to be.
the cannon armed version in which Ruddel rack up most of his kills lack the dive brakes ,
ie not a dive bomber but assault aircraft.J'ai en marre.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostHow many of them were misses? Once bomb release, they lose visual lock and all they see is some smoke. They may or may not have hit the tank.
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThe only thing for certain was that German tanks and AT guns were damned busy.
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It must have been a terrible thing for the German soldiers, facing an unending prosession of Soviet tanks - and shortages of everything they needed to deal with them. Even as they killed them in large numbers, they just kept coming... I understand that they fought bravely, but in the end numbers won - and the Soviets were really pissed - they wanted revenge.sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Originally posted by USSWisconsin View PostThose Ju-87's would have been fodder on the Western front - with P-51's (or most any allied fighters - Spitfires or P-38's too, and P-47's would make even more holes) flying around shooting them full of holesJ'ai en marre.
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Originally posted by 1979 View PostSchlachtgeschwader 103 operated a mix of fw-190 and ju-87 during Overlord.
German control during World War IIUnder Luftwaffe control, the airfield was initially used as a night interceptor fighter base, with Nachtjagdgeschwader 4 (NJG 4) flying Messerschmitt Bf 110s and later RADAR-equipped Dornier Do 217s against the night attacks by the Royal Air Force on German targets.[3] In 1943, a dive bomber school, Schlachtgeschwader 103 (SG 103) was established at the base, training pilots with Arado Ar 96 advanced trainers; Focke-Wulf Fw 190Fs, and Junkers Ju 87s.[3]
The school closed in February 1944; the night fighters were reassigned in May.
http://www.ww2.dk/
http://www.ww2.dk/air/attack/sg103.htmlLast edited by USSWisconsin; 04 Feb 12,, 17:40.sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Between 6-30 june 44 the LW did 13.000 sorties, how many were by Sg-103 let alone by ju-87 I do not know.
The Stukas took off generally at dusk. as was the case at Caretan on june 10, to avoid the allied fighters.
Bert Wilder is credited with a ju-87 around Chartres on 6.6.1944. http://www.cieldegloire.com/014_marshall_b_w.phpJ'ai en marre.
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IMO, Considering the amount of lives that Russia lost in those battles and since they were primarily focused on Germany instead of Japan, I would be of the assuption that they are not overstating their importance. IMO, Russia was important all the same.Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
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Originally posted by Tanker
No wait Page 134-138 10,000 T34's were "flattened". Hows that?
I honestly don't know why you'd believe, for example, the uncorroborated claims of Rudel.
Exaggeration by gunners and pilots - of all nations - is notorious. Particularly that self-promoter.
Check this out for mythbusting:
Opeartion Barbarossa: Aircraft vs Armour WWII
Perhaps 5% of the Soviet tanks lost in the target rich environment of Kursk were destroyed from the air. The RAF pilots in Normandy overclaimed by a factor of 25!Last edited by clackers; 07 Feb 12,, 03:23.
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