Who's going to see Valkyrie?

[Johnny W]

Yes! I can't think of a better historical figure to portray on screen. Certainly an rollicking good sea story at the very least, to say nothing of von Luckner himself.

Hm, looks like I need to re-read (again) my copy of The Cruise of the Sea Eagle. :)



Wow...now there's a great thread idea, an intriguing What If? that I don't think has been seriously considered before:

What if Germany had surrendered to the Western Allies after a successful July 20 coup?

Would the Western Allies have even accepted such a 'partial' surrender? They certainly had no love for Uncle Joe, but would they have allowed Germany to continue fighting against the Soviets?

Could the allies have stopped them from continuing to fight the Russians? If the German armies in the West surrendered while the east kept fighting, there isn't much the Western Allies could do about it other than to accept their surrender.

[TopHatter]

Could the allies have stopped them from continuing to fight the Russians? If the German armies in the West surrendered while the east kept fighting, there isn't much the Western Allies could do about it other than to accept their surrender.

Or reject it. ;)

Suppose the German armed forces surrendered in the West, simply laying down all arms. The Western Allies would have raced straight into Germany and cut off the Eastern German forces at their logistical knees.

[Johnny W]

Or reject it. ;)

Suppose the German armed forces surrendered in the West, simply laying down all arms. The Western Allies would have raced straight into Germany and cut off the Eastern German forces at their logistical knees.

Probably so, but it would have taken them a few weeks, and allowed more German civilians to escape the red army. And who knows, with American and British soldiers in Eastern Germany, the Red Army might have behaved a bit better than it did.

[TopHatter]

Probably so, but it would have taken them a few weeks, and allowed more German civilians to escape the red army. And who knows, with American and British soldiers in Eastern Germany, the Red Army might have behaved a bit better than it did.

Yeah, that would have been the biggest plus about an early German surrender.

I know that the German forces didn't exactly behave themselves in the Soviet Union but still...:(

[DRichards1968]

I am. I'm a huge World War 2 buff and I'm hoping they did a good job portraying history correctly.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the movie.

[DRichards1968]

Probably so, but it would have taken them a few weeks, and allowed more German civilians to escape the red army. And who knows, with American and British soldiers in Eastern Germany, the Red Army might have behaved a bit better than it did.

An early German surrender, say in October/November 1944, would have saved countless lives all over Europe. I agree that in that event it's unlikely that the Russians would have behaved quite so brutally. And I also believe that Stalin would have been more willing to let Germany keep more territory instead of insisting on the Oder-Niesse line.

[DRichards1968]

I had a relative who knew him slightly, in Austria. My relative never thought that Skorzeny was really a Nazi at heart, just someone who went that way because it gave him the freedom to do the things he was inclined to, or going to, do anyway.

Skorzeny was a patriot, Nazi or otherwise. I don't believe he was an evil man and he would not have murdered anyone for the sake of Nazi ideology. Much the same can be said of Sepp Dietrich.

[DRichards1968]

I saw the movie this past weekend, and thought it was relatively well done. Considering I knew how it would end, I thought they did about as well as they could with it.

Generally speaking, I am ok with Cruise. He does well enough in certain roles. Its hard to see anyone else playing Jerry Maguire. But this movie would have been better off with someone like Daniel Craig playing Stauffenberg.

Daniel Craig doesn't look one bit like Stauffenberg. Cruise was a good match.

[DRichards1968]

A good story is a good story. I don't see why the politics should preclude telling what is really a great story. But you're right, von Luckner and Seeadler is another one deserving of a feature film.

Yes, very true, but I think you know the faith of many Hollywood bigshot producers, directors, distributors, etc. Even a remotely Nazi sympathetic movie would be strangled at birth.

[Johnny W]

Daniel Craig doesn't look one bit like Stauffenberg. Cruise was a good match.

I don't think it really matters that much how much the actor looks like Stauffenberg. I doubt many of the movie goers have any idea what Stauffenberg looked like. I think Craig or someone like him could do a better job as a German officer.

I am not a Cruise hater by any stretch of the imagination. I think he does an excellent job at certain characters, such as Jerry Maguire. And I thought he did a decent job in this movie, I just think there are other actors better suited to this role. But all in all, it was an excellent movie.

[DRichards1968]

I don't think it really matters that much how much the actor looks like Stauffenberg. I doubt many of the movie goers have any idea what Stauffenberg looked like. I think Craig or someone like him could do a better job as a German officer.

I am not a Cruise hater by any stretch of the imagination. I think he does an excellent job at certain characters, such as Jerry Maguire. And I thought he did a decent job in this movie, I just think there are other actors better suited to this role. But all in all, it was an excellent movie.

I think it does matter that the actor should resemble who he is supposed to be portraying. By your reasoning we could have Denzel Washington playing Stauffenberg!

[Johnny W]

I think it does matter that the actor should resemble who he is supposed to be portraying. By your reasoning we could have Denzel Washington playing Stauffenberg!

I bet less than 1% of those that go to the movie even know what Stauffenberg looked like.

[DRichards1968]

I bet less than 1% of those that go to the movie even know what Stauffenberg looked like.

I doubt it. In any case, that's not the point.

[Johnny W]

I doubt it. In any case, that's not the point.

Sure its the point. If those that go to see the movie don't know what the original fellow looks like, then what difference does it make how much the actor resembles him?

Now when it comes to a well known figure, such as Hitler, then a certain resemblance is important.

[DRichards1968]

Sure its the point. If those that go to see the movie don't know what the original fellow looks like, then what difference does it make how much the actor resembles him?

Now when it comes to a well known figure, such as Hitler, then a certain resemblance is important.

You would be surprised how many people will research the subject before they view the movie.