Is the American civil war really over??

[Tarek Morgen]

Were Jews and Nazis made to live together in a social manner after that occurrence? Oranges and apples.

uhm Germany has one of the biggest Jewish communities (5th I think) and the fastest growing one in the world.

When was this?

What? The Dagger? Around eight years ago (at least that was the last time I had contact with him)

The Book was written around 1928 I think. But he never published it because he was afraid it was giving to much of his long term goals. If you want to look it up try "Zweites Buch" or Hitlers second book". It never got an offical titel.

[TopHatter]

So you have known some of us for quite awhile now, and some for at least a year. You have read our posts and probably already had an idea of what we are like. Although you probably already thought I was a nut, what is your opinion of some of us now given that we share many of Edgertons views? Are we a "little" out there, or are you just being polite?

I've read about Edgerton, your views and his aren't quite the same, nor are you the same person.

So no, I've never thought you were a "nut", Julie neither.

I may not agree with some of your views but I have absolutely no problem with your pride in your Southern heritage.

But what if I really do talk like Uncle Jed?

Then you'd sound just like my Uncle Joe and my Uncle Milburn ;)

(Never met most of the rest of my male relatives on that side like my grandfather etc, they'd mostly passed away by the time I came in the picture)

[Blue]

What? The Dagger? Around eight years ago (at least that was the last time I had contact with him)

Well....that is damned odd. Probably doesn't visit the Synagogue much. Of course, all races, religions, etc, have thier total nuts.

The Book was written around 1928 I think. But he never published it because he was afraid it was giving to much of his long term goals. If you want to look it up try "Zweites Buch" or Hitlers second book". It never got an offical titel.

It seems I have heard that but thanks for bringing it up. I will look into it.

I have studied quite a bit more about the Klan than most. When I was a senior in high school, i found out that some of my still living forefathers where former(reformed actually) members of the Klan in the 20s and 30s. That led to me writing my final termpaper on the Klan, its history and some local events. I interviewed old Klansmen and new. Something that wasn't being much in the 80s. My paper earned an A for tackling such a subject extensively and containing so many hard to get interviews.

Hitler came up often and it is surprising that today, Neo-Nazis associate with the klan given that for all but the past 30 years or so, the original klan would have hated the Nazis. Hitler didn't like the Klan of the same reason.

The klan was often depicted in Nazi propaganda as a legitimate enemy of the Reich.

[Tarek Morgen]

To be honest, I have heard a single Nazi-reference to the Klan whatsoever. Neither positove nor negative. Though Hitlers general opinion about the US was very postive in his second book. Simplified as the only western nation that "got it right" when dealing with minorities in its borders.

[Stitch]

The Book was written around 1928 I think. But he never published it because he was afraid it was giving to much of his long term goals. If you want to look it up try "Zweites Buch" or Hitlers second book". It never got an offical titel.

Believe it or not, I actually have a copy of that book, but they changed the title slightly (to make it more sensational, I guess) to "Hitler's Secret Book". It's about half as long as "Mein Kampf", but just as hard to read.

[Tarek Morgen]

i found it a bit easier. He was more.."to the point" in my opinion. Or maybe it was simply because of its short length that it felt a bit easier to read. Though it is out of question that his writing skill are even worse then his skills as Artist.

[Shek]

Maybe he's related to some of these guys??

Black Confederate Soldiers

And btw, I PERSONALLY know at least six Blacks who wear that flag and display it in thier home!

I noticed this picture at your website:



However, it seems to be a Photoshop. You make the call and then interpret what that means about the rest of the info at the site.

Here's a 1864 recruiting poster.



The poster is based off of this photograph.



I don't doubt that there were individual blacks who fought on the side of the Confederacy. I doubt the veracity of many of the statistics cited given that the websites, and I wonder how many of those cited were actually slaves forced by their owners to accompany them to the battlefield. However, in the end, the acts of a small number of blacks fighting for the Confederacy don't erase the fact that official policy until the waning weeks of the war was against this and that the Confederacy fought the war to preserve and extend slavery.

[Blue]

I noticed this picture at your website:
However, it seems to be a Photoshop. You make the call and then interpret what that means about the rest of the info at the site.
Here's a 1864 recruiting poster.
The poster is based off of this photograph.

Good call Sir! I don't disagree. can't believe everything on the internet.

I don't doubt that there were individual blacks who fought on the side of the Confederacy. I doubt the veracity of many of the statistics cited given that the websites, and I wonder how many of those cited were actually slaves forced by their owners to accompany them to the battlefield.

Respectfully sir, doubt all you want. It just isn't mainstream history that suited the cause of justification.

However, in the end, the acts of a small number of blacks fighting for the Confederacy don't erase the fact that official policy until the waning weeks of the war was against this and that the Confederacy fought the war to preserve and extend slavery.

I must absolutely disagree. Slavery was on the decline and would have been a thing of the past before long. The EP was just another rally call to support the Unions efforts.

Slavery was not the primary reason for the war. If so, why didn't the union opt to peacefully legislate out slavery without toppling an economy that they reaped the benefits from as well?

[Julie]

Slavery was not the primary reason for the war. If so, why didn't the union opt to peacefully legislate out slavery without toppling an economy that they reaped the benefits from as well?

That is what I thought as well.

There are indications that during the last decade before the Civil War slave ownership became increasingly concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. As soil erosion and exhaustion diminished the availability of cotton land, scarcity and heavy demand forced the price of land and slaves to rise beyond the reach of most, and in newer cotton-growing regions, yeomen farmers were pushed off the land as planters expanded their holdings.

In Louisiana, for example, nearly half of all rural white families owned no land. During the 1850s, the percentage of the total white population owning slaves declined significantly. By 1860, the proportion of whites holding slaves had fallen from about one-third to one-fourth. As slave and land ownership grew more concentrated, a growing number of whites were forced by economic pressure to leave the land and move to urban centers.

Digital History

[Albany Rifles]

7th Sniper

I see that Shek has already done the photoshop deal...that is a well known hoax.

Also some of the information at a lot of those websites has been debunked for some time. How were they debunked? Pension records. Several of the persons who are listed mentioned their position in such a such unit an da reference was then as listed on their pension application. To a man they had their pension appilications denied. reasons given? they were not part of the Confederate military but where camp workers, laborers, teamsters, etc. The states did not recognize their service because no Confederate state brought blacks into service as soldiers prior to 1865...which you may recall was my point about 5 pages ago.

I do not deny some blacks gave service to the Confederacy. I believe about 25% of the work force at Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond was free blacks. My point was that large scale service of blacks as Confederate troops is, at best, a legend.

There may have been some sightings given....the Maryland story has been known in ACW historian circles for years and that is the ONLY reference to this force of 3,000 armed blackmen oin print.

The one area I can not say with certitude is the Confederate Navy. I do not know if it was integrated like the US Navy.

[Julie]

There were many recorded instances of combat service of Black Confederates which can be found in the Federal Official Records, Northern and Southern newspapers and the letters and diaries of soldiers from both sides. In addition there are recorded instances of Black Southerners serving as regularly-enlisted combat soldiers before the Union allowed enlistment of Blacks.

Elgin (Illinois) Daily Courier-News, Monday, April 12, 1948 - "Robert (Uncle Bob) Wilson, Negro veteran of the Confederate army who observed his 112th birthday last January 13, died early yesterday morning in the veterans' hospital at the Elgin State hospital...He enlisted as a private in Company H of the 16th regiment of Virginia Infantry on Oct. 9, 1862 and discharged May 31, 1863."

Some individual states in the confederacy permitted free blacks to enlist as soldiers in their state militias continuing a longstanding tradition. The first to do so was Tennessee which passed a law on June 21, 1861 authorizing the recruitment of state militia units composed of "free persons of color" between the ages of 15 and 50. Louisiana, which had a sizable free black population, followed suit and assembled the all-black 1st Louisiana Native Guard.

CONFEDERATE AFRICAN AMERICANS~CIVIL WAR: story, pictures and information - Footnote.com

[Blue]

I see that Shek has already done...............

Fair enough. I give that as far as recorded history goes that there where scattered enlistees but not a full segregated regiment till later in the war. I give that the photo in question is obviously faked.

My main concern on the matter is that there are soldiers who served that will never receive recognition. Of course neither side treated Blacks as equals regardless.

[TopHatter]

Elgin (Illinois) Daily Courier-News

Hm, I used to deliver that newspaper, lo those many years ago.

[Blue]

CONFEDERATE AFRICAN AMERICANS~CIVIL WAR: story, pictures and information - Footnote.com

Good find Julie. Seems to cover the whole topic well.;)

Still some reading to do, but the first five articles where interesting so far.

[Albany Rifles]

And almost to a man those who were listed in the examples served as servants, teamsters, laborers and musicians and they were both slave or free balck. I believe you will find no one has denied that those instances existed into the tens of thousands. Nor has anyone denied that black labor was the economic backbone to the Confederate economic engine.

And many of the essays written on the website are written by fellow travellers down the road with MR Edgerton and can be found in a lot of the palces on the intertubes.

And no argument that African Americans were treated poorly throughout the US. But a veteran of the USCT or a state regiment could apply for a pension and receive it. And there is no doubt that they served as Infantrymen, Cavalrymen, and Artillerymen and were part of the main stream of the US Army. The same could not be said for blacks in Confederate service.


7 SFN...question. You mention several of your black friends who wear Confederate flags on their leathers (I assume you wear them for motorcycle riding...not for soem bizarre rituals!). Do you know why they do? Do they do it as a symbol of a club? A protest against something? Or to honor the memory of the CSA? I would say teh odds are stronger the reason is for 1 or 2 rather than 3.