Ask An Expert- Battleships

[RustyBattleship]

bbvet said: " Back in those days I also had no fear of heights and didn't think twice about climbing up to the top of the mainmast to "get a better view"

Well, I got you one better than that. Just after graduating from the apprenticeship and got my certificate as a 1st step shipfitter mechanic, one of my supes, (Bill "Pal" Ashford) that knew me as a "high man" stopped me one afternoon and asked if I wanted to work the weekend.

At time and a half. Heck yes. "Where at Bill?"[

"On top of the German Crane".

Now THAT was a view. Almost 300 feet in the air at the Aircraft Warning Light and I wasn't gutsy enough to smuggle a small camera in with me.

[bbvet]

Rusty,

I'm so glad to know that I'm not the only one who's 'been there, done that'! Of course, we're probably only a couple of guys out of thousands who've experienced it. Something you don't forget. Back in those days I also had no fear of heights and didn't think twice about climbing up to the top of the mainmast to "get a better view" - of course, in port with the radars shut down - I'm not THAT dumb!!! Today, I have an equilibrium problem with outdoor heights so I tend to not be quite so bold - usually take the interior lane of high bridges. Don't know why this occurs, it just does.

I remember back in the 70's there were a couple books floating around - paperbacks, I think, that were tales of ex-sailors from the war years forward - tin can sailors, etc. and their various exploits on board ship. Great reading - just can't recall the titles. This forum could pass for an extended edition with some of the stories that are being posted. It's such a great venue for communicating with each other.

Hank

[RustyBattleship]

One other tidbit of trivia involving the smaller eschellon of naval guns -

STODDARD had (3) 3"/50 dual mounts - 31,32, and 33 (centerline, aft - the mount I was assigned to for G.Q. station) - I started as 2nd loader, went to 1st loader, and upon occasion was temp. mt. captain. One day while pursuing VC junks in the distance (and sinking almost a dozen w/3"/50 fire) I got curious about the after stack and its proximity to the mount. I often wondered what stack gas smelled like (dumb, DUMB, DUMB thing to wonder about :bang:) - so, like a true dumb-ass I caught a whiff of the gas and DAMN NEAR DIED!!! It took a long time to get rid of that out of my lungs - I thought (as did the rest of the gun crew who weren't laughing :Dancing-Banana:) that I was a goner. It was as if someone had knocked me with a log on the back.

Stack gas is not, I repeat NOT to be breathed. End of lesson. Doesn't have much to do with guns, but I thought it was interesting, just the same.
:insane:

Hank

Welcome to the club pal. When I was an apprentice shipfitter at LBNSY (late '50's) I had to work some overtime on a Cruiser. Since I was young, agile, had a good sense of balance and not afraid of heights my supervisor sent me up the mast to pick up a couple of quick measurements for a new antenna foundation we were to mount the next day.

The mast was right over the stack, ship was on hot iron, yellow smoke was coming out. I got the measurements, got down the the nearest deck, somehow. I don't even remember if I used the ladder or not because I was coughing so hard. By the time I got down to the deck the supe was on, I had pretty well coughed out all that sulpher, lstumbled over something on the deck (at least it was a teak deck) and gave my report to the supe.

He saw me do the stumble and complimented me on rolling perfectly to prevent injury just as he was taught in his Judo classes. I merely explained I used to be a tumbler in high school gym. He told me to go back to the shop and when I felt better to go on home.

[bbvet]

Dreadnaught,

An interesting perspective - and a lot of truth to it, also. Capt. Snyder, as I recall, had no use for on-board CIA personnel and successfully kept them off our fine ship. We didn't need those particular clowns screwing up the works; our military crew could, AND DID handle all our jobs quite well on our own. My wife and I shared a long, enjoyable evening in 1995 at the Norfolk reunion with Ed and his wife Louise, reminiscing about all sorts of NEW JERSEY odds & ends, a lot of which I would have never known otherwise. We also were the only U.S. battleship commission without a Marine detachment - due more to keeping the ship's operating budget within Congressional limits than shipboard need. Our crew was quite capable of handling our own MAA duties and security functions as needed.

Not taking away from the crews that followed us, but I strongly feel that the 1968-69 Vietnam crew on NEW JERSEY was the last TRUE battleship crew that was trained, staffed, and served in the real U. S. Navy - prior to the current state of chaos that exists within the various service branches. I'll leave it at that.

Hank

[Dreadnought]

Pop not only knew the 3"/50's but also the 5". And he knew that being a GM on the stern of a Liberty ship (actually 2 differnet ones) while being attacked in Convoy by both the German subs and German E boats.

Woe, to "coffin corner" (the ammo ships) and where they were positioned in the convoy if you were sailing aboard one of the unlucky ones.

They watched, as they those men disappeared in a huge orange blast on the open sea when they got hit. They watched this happen from the rails, and sailed on to deliver their cargo.

This, traveling at about 8 knots max.

[Dreadnought]

One other tidbit of trivia involving the smaller eschellon of naval guns -

STODDARD had (3) 3"/50 dual mounts - 31,32, and 33 (centerline, aft - the mount I was assigned to for G.Q. station) - I started as 2nd loader, went to 1st loader, and upon occasion was temp. mt. captain. One day while pursuing VC junks in the distance (and sinking almost a dozen w/3"/50 fire) I got curious about the after stack and its proximity to the mount. I often wondered what stack gas smelled like (dumb, DUMB, DUMB thing to wonder about :bang:) - so, like a true dumb-ass I caught a whiff of the gas and DAMN NEAR DIED!!! It took a long time to get rid of that out of my lungs - I thought (as did the rest of the gun crew who weren't laughing :Dancing-Banana:) that I was a goner. It was as if someone had knocked me with a log on the back.

Stack gas is not, I repeat NOT to be breathed. End of lesson. Doesn't have much to do with guns, but I thought it was interesting, just the same.
:insane:

Hank

Pop not only knew the 3"/50's but also the 5". And he knew that being a GM on the stern of a Liberty ship (actually 2 differnet ones) while being attacked in Convoy by both the German subs and German E boats.

Woe, to "coffin corner" (the ammo ships) and where they were positioned in the convoy if you were sailing aboard one of the unlucky ones.

They watched, as they those men disappeared in a huge orange blast on the open sea when they got hit. They watched this happen from the rails, and sailed on to deliver their cargo.

[Dreadnought]

I can attest to Dreadnaught & Rusty's accounts of the various gun blast and effect on the human ears, etc. The 5"/38 are the worst - loud, high pitched and piercing. My first week on board STODDARD (DD-566) in July 66 was a week training exercise off San Clemente Island and the single 5" were headache rendering . I was assigned to an amidships gang during firing, stationed in the open amidships area of the quarterdeck (no place to really get away from the noise) and even covering your ears didn't really help. I would much rather be back as 1st loader on one of the 3"/50 mounts back aft. Comparing these guns to the 16" - give me the low, loud boom of the 16"/50 any day!!!

During Vietnam, we didn't have any lines in the deck - you just followed the rules and stayed at the other end of the ship or inside, or...above main deck level.

Hank

Your orders and practices were much differnet then the 80's. Thats what made those men and their orders so different. Bullshit politics had not quite effected you and the crew. Its was business, not politics in what they did , and they did it vey welll. Snyder was very smart, for the 10/ 5" guns he burned up on one side, he had 10 more to give them, outside the mmain battery. She didnt get to that point as politics intervened and she was taken out of service due to politics. Its not like she wasnt in shape nor ready for her second tour.

[bbvet]

One other tidbit of trivia involving the smaller eschellon of naval guns -

STODDARD had (3) 3"/50 dual mounts - 31,32, and 33 (centerline, aft - the mount I was assigned to for G.Q. station) - I started as 2nd loader, went to 1st loader, and upon occasion was temp. mt. captain. One day while pursuing VC junks in the distance (and sinking almost a dozen w/3"/50 fire) I got curious about the after stack and its proximity to the mount. I often wondered what stack gas smelled like (dumb, DUMB, DUMB thing to wonder about :bang:) - so, like a true dumb-ass I caught a whiff of the gas and DAMN NEAR DIED!!! It took a long time to get rid of that out of my lungs - I thought (as did the rest of the gun crew who weren't laughing :Dancing-Banana:) that I was a goner. It was as if someone had knocked me with a log on the back.

Stack gas is not, I repeat NOT to be breathed. End of lesson. Doesn't have much to do with guns, but I thought it was interesting, just the same.
:insane:

Hank

[Stitch]

None of the Iowa class were ever fitted with 3"/50's.

Sorry, I meant 5"/38's; got my secondary armament mixed-up.

[Tom24]

I recall reading Muir's book on the Iowa-class, and a crewman was quoted as saying that the 3"/50 saved him money since he didn't have to buy a stereo because he wouldn't be able to hear it very well, anyway.

None of the Iowa class were ever fitted with 3"/50's.

[Stitch]

If you have a grandfather, or older neighbor that served WWII or the Korea War they would impart to you what a 5"/38 could do to your hearing or ever the 3"/50. A pitch so loud that under full charge would ring almost anyones eardums in no more then the third crack. This is also why so many men that served the military during the war years are hard of hearing. They also in some places complained of nausea and pressure on their chests.

I recall reading Muir's book on the Iowa-class, and a crewman was quoted as saying that the 3"/50 saved him money since he didn't have to buy a stereo because he wouldn't be able to hear it very well, anyway.

[bbvet]

I can attest to Dreadnaught & Rusty's accounts of the various gun blast and effect on the human ears, etc. The 5"/38 are the worst - loud, high pitched and piercing. My first week on board STODDARD (DD-566) in July 66 was a week training exercise off San Clemente Island and the single 5" were headache rendering . I was assigned to an amidships gang during firing, stationed in the open amidships area of the quarterdeck (no place to really get away from the noise) and even covering your ears didn't really help. I would much rather be back as 1st loader on one of the 3"/50 mounts back aft. Comparing these guns to the 16" - give me the low, loud boom of the 16"/50 any day!!!

During Vietnam, we didn't have any lines in the deck - you just followed the rules and stayed at the other end of the ship or inside, or...above main deck level.

Hank

[RustyBattleship]

Dreadnaught is right on the money when he relates to the sharp crack of a 5"/38. The muzzle may, or may not be, just beyond the line of the shell plating. Traversed more than 15 degrees aft or forward of athwartships, it is an ear splitter.

While inspecting muzzle blast (technically called "overpressure") damage from any of the guns was one of my jobs as the structural engineer aboard for gunnery trials. The 5-inchers opened up a lot of locker doors. The 16-inchers exploded some exterior vent ducts. The CIWS was almost a non-event. I stood directly under CIWS 21 on BB-62 checking for vibration through the surrounding structures and I barely felt any air movement over my head.

Well, my initiation to muzzle blast was up at Camp Roberts when I was trying to take an 8mm movie film of the firing of a 76mm gun from an M-41A1 tank. Forgot that the cast gizmo on the end of the barrel was a blast DEFLECTOR and not a muzzle brake. Got the movie shot but it was short because I wound up on my back. It takes some goof ups like that to recon where you should be when the big guns do their stuff. You learn from your mistakes.

[RustyBattleship]

Dreadnaught is right on the money when he relates to the sharp crack of a 5"/38. The muzzle may, or may not be, just beyond the line of the shell plating. Traversed more than 15 degrees aft or forward of athwartships, it is an ear splitter.

While inspecting muzzle blast (technically called "overpressure") damage from any of the guns was one of my jobs as the structural engineer aboard for gunnery trials. The 5-inchers opened up a lot of locker doors. The 16-inchers exploded some exterior vent ducts. The CIWS was almost a non-event. I stood directly under CIWS 21 on BB-62 checking for vibration through the surrounding structures and I barely felt any air movement over my head.

Well, my initiation to muzzle blast was up at Camp Roberts when I was trying to take an 8mm movie film of the firing of a 76mm gun from an M-41A1 tank. Forgot that the cast gizmo on the end of the barrel was a blast DEFLECTOR and not a muzzle brake. Got the movie shot but it was short because I wound up on my back. It takes some goof ups like that to recon where you should be when the big guns do their stuff. You learn from your mistakes.

[85 gt kid]

The 14"-3 gun turrets of the Pennsylvania class produced a very good firing rate, in some cases claimed 3 rounds per gun per minute. Accuracy being what it was for the time.

Problem I see with a 4 gun turrett though is the ROF might have gone down due to the turret being more cramped (I believe the Richeliu class had this problem). If only there was better automation before the war. Imagine a Rapid Fire 16" BB .