2018 American Political Scene

[Versus]

As midterms get near, expect tensions to rise. It will get ugly.

[troung]

Look you do not like Ukraine - from the very beginning you hoped we all kill each other. Fine that is your preference; I am not keen on Chekists myself; or you for that matter. So what? You have nothing to do with Ukraine, nobody is forcing you to lift a finger to help us. Go your own way, do your own thing, but stop making nonesensical and contradictory slurs against a nation that has for over four years been in the field against the principal adversary of the West and it's values - or me because I chose to help the country where my family home now lies.

It's one group of crooked ethno nationalist kleoptocrats fighting another, over a few border provinces few can find on the map. My values and rights are not at stake.

Still waiting for you to produce the Trump seks tape you were given access to.

[Officer of Engineers]

Actually in my view he is. Try just reading the history of his time in St Peterburg where he was Deputy Mayor and all his mob connections with Tambovskaya gang, SPAG (on the Board of which he sat) and it's embezzlement and Cali Cartel connections. Look at the Spanish inquiries... look at the murders... Sergei Magnitsky, Anna Politovskaya, Nemtsov, the attempts on the Skripals, Sasha Litvinenko, the palaces, the $500,000 watches that his associates happen to come by while on a salary of $100,000 p.a, MH17... and this is just the headline surface stuff. How many 'international terrorist groups' have access to PL-210 or Novichuk? Muscovy is the only place in the world where either are made.

Yet, he was not charged. The same standard you applied to Poroshenko. Kettle meet pot. The evidence of both Putin and Poroshenko is before you and you chosed to accept one and deny the other.

BTW, there is ZERO evidence against Trump and yet you spout all this horse crap about him being a traitor. This makes you the biggest hypocrit on this board.

They were: That is what Poroshenko was saying.. buying votes is illegal. Yet for some reason this seems worthy of complaint to you.

Horse puckey! If true, they should have been in jail long before this election and out of government by now. They should not even be on the ballot. You're just reaching for any idiotic reasoning you can come up with.

I am a loss myself but then it was not I who mentioned Brown Shirts.

I'll make it plain and simple. You have a Nazi sitting in your House with his own combat experienced personal army on the streets and the cops too scared to stop them.

More Germans from 1930s? Of course you would know this how?

How about Human Rights Watch from inside Ukraine?

Your extensive visits and stays in Ukraine were when precisely? Oh never. But you know there is no law how?

Read your own freaking media.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-azov.../29008036.html

I admit I do not like the Prosecutor and the reform of the judiciary was luke warm at best but things have vastly improved from the January 2014 'Dictatorship Laws'.

You're shitting me. The same dung bags are still there and you think things have changed just because the papers have changed? On what planet?

As for "a a guy sitting in your House" that is usually my Husband or others of my family.

House with a Capital H. Your legislative branch. Of course, you millenials have no such appreciation for historic conventions.

Of this small list of complaints (which you did not previously 'present') I would agree that the withrawal of Saakashvili's passport for "application inconsisties" (which I have never had a good explanation of) was a bit whimsical particularly only after Saakashvili started to become critical. Yet 'Sarko' (or 'Misha') got back in so if Poroshenko were a "mob boss" he would not be a very good one. Putin's opponents do not get a chance to come back. There are thousands of Georgian in Ukraine, (as well as Armenians, Azeri's, Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Lemkos, Hutsuls, Germans not to forget Tatars) and deporting those accused of crimes in Georgia is a legal matter - not an Executive decision. Misha was NOT deported back to Georgia although he could have been had he stayed here. The withdrawal of his passport inadvertently saved him though I doubt it was by design myself. The press is free, opposition MPs are free, Presidential candidates are free to say as they wish.. Not a great mob boss totalitarian system compared to others.

Give me a freaking break! TWO extradiction requests from an "allied" country for a wanted criminal. Not only did Poroshenko ignored those, he granted citizenship to Sarko and the next day, gave him governorship of cash cow Odessa. What, no Ukrainian is worthy of that post?

This ALONE states that Poroshenko's UKR is NO DEFENDER of MY WESTERN VALUES! Appoint a WANTED FOREIGN CRIMINAL as Governor of a cash cow area. And yet, you're disgusted with Trump's grabbed them by the pussy? Had Trump tried this, not only would he have been impeached, he would have been lynched and I will dare say that every American on this board would have been lining up to give that rope a tug.

YOU DO NOT REPRESENT MY VALUES to say the least.

Funny how Yulia Tymoshenko was in prison before then.

And get the freaking hint! Yanukovych was that powerful and it took an uprising to get rid of him.

And this obsession of yours with 1930's German militia is just plain wrong; all the Brown Shirts are dead. If you mean right wing extremists are running around creating havoc it's just not true. Sure we have a few nutcases but a vastly lower percentage of them than in most countries west of here. At the last elections they got 2% of the vote; compare that to vote in France.

And you're a freaking student of history? The Night of the Long Knives was never about votes and 600 men in January of 2017 proved that they're not about votes now.

It's about POWER.

Look you do not like Ukraine - from the very beginning you hoped we all kill each other.

This is beautiful. This IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! YOU WANT TO KEEP KILLING MUSCOVITES IN YOUR WORDS! Yes, I want you to keep killing Russians. And I DID NOT SAY I WANT YOU TO KEEP KILLING EACH OTHER! I want the UKR to keep killing Russians!

BUT YOU'RE NOT KILLING RUSSIANS! YOU'RE KILLING UKRAINIANS!

Fine that is your preference; I am not keen on Chekists myself; or you for that matter. So what? You have nothing to do with Ukraine, nobody is forcing you to lift a finger to help us. Go your own way, do your own thing, but stop making nonesensical and contradictory slurs against a nation that has for over four years been in the field against the principal adversary of the West and it's values - or me because I chose to help the country where my family home now lies.

What I find insulting about all of this is that you keep lecturing us about our house and our rules while saying we have no say in your house and your rules. You're right. I don't have a say in your house and your rules BUT DON'T FREAKING LECTURE US THAT WE SHOULD HELP YOU AND YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOUR VERY HOUSE IS AN INSULT TO OUR IDEALS.

We will be pragmatic about stopping the Russians AND THAT INCLUDES NOT GOING TO WAR WITH RUSSIA FOR THE UKR! We will stop the Russians OUR WAY! Not yours! And certainly NOT for your House!

Yeah, Trump isn't doing us any favours but guess what? Our Houses. Our Rules. You don't have a say in how we run our Houses!

SO STOP LECTURING US TO HELP YOU KILL YOUR FAMILY AND STOP TELLING US TO THROW TRUMP IN JAIL, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE OF TREASON!

[Officer of Engineers]

Col.,
Is Trump compromised? Have we ever had to ask that question about a sitting leader in the free world, let alone the supposed leader of the free world? Just contemplating the question brings us to an entirely new level of concern. Serious contemplation, not just back-and-forth politics, is beyond mere 'concern.' It enters into the realm of, “What has made us even ask such a question?”

First of all, Trump is not elected as the leader of the free world. He is elected as the President of the United States and that is the only metric that matters. The Free World must react to American electoral whims which frankly we have zero say. NATO countries are fee to respond if we feel that the US will not live up to defence committements which at this moment is not a matter of life and death. We can destroy any Russian advance against our borders within the foreseeable future. Not just repulse but to destroy any Russian column foolish enough to march West. We can do the job better and faster with American help but we can do the job with much, much difficulty without American help.

As for your articles, these are all just opinions. The Deciding Authority is Mueller and he has made no charges of compromise nor has there been any leaks of such compromise. Considering the number of leaks about everything else, Trump Jr, Storm, Flynn, lawyers fired-hired-charged-flipped, this is surprising in itself.

[DOR]

First of all, Trump is not elected as the leader of the free world. He is elected as the President of the United States and that is the only metric that matters. The Free World must react to American electoral whims which frankly we have zero say. NATO countries are fee to respond if we feel that the US will not live up to defence committements which at this moment is not a matter of life and death. We can destroy any Russian advance against our borders within the foreseeable future. Not just repulse but to destroy any Russian column foolish enough to march West. We can do the job better and faster with American help but we can do the job with much, much difficulty without American help.

As for your articles, these are all just opinions. The Deciding Authority is Mueller and he has made no charges of compromise nor has there been any leaks of such compromise. Considering the number of leaks about everything else, Trump Jr, Storm, Flynn, lawyers fired-hired-charged-flipped, this is surprising in itself.

Yes, The Trumpet was not elected "leader of the free world." Is there some reason to bring that up? Hasn't every US President since either of us can remember been regularly -- and solely -- identified by that term? It changes nothing in what I wrote.

No, our allies have no say and yes, they will have to cope. You know better than I how well placed individual (or collective, ex-USA) NATO nations are to respond to a Russian attack. As always, I bow to your superior knowledge and experience in your field of expertise.

As for the articles I posted -- from a range of viewpoints -- they are offered solely to point out that the questions that have never been asked about a US president are now being asked. No, there are no charges, compelling evidence, impeachment or conviction by the Senate. Is there some reason that needs to be the criteria to answer the question?

And, no, it isn't surprising that the investigations aren't further along. These things, done right, take time.

The question remains the same: “What has made us even ask such a question?”

[TopHatter]

As for your articles, these are all just opinions. The Deciding Authority is Mueller and he has made no charges of compromise nor has there been any leaks of such compromise. Considering the number of leaks about everything else, Trump Jr, Storm, Flynn, lawyers fired-hired-charged-flipped, this is surprising in itself.

Sir, that isn't surprising in the least. As has been pointed out in the past, the Watergate scandal took years to unfold. This is bigger than Watergate by an order of magnitude. Trump makes Nixon look like a naughty schoolboy. Mueller is no fool. He'll gather the little fish into his net first.

People seem to want evidence of "Russian Collusion" to consist of a GoPro camera mounted on Donald Trump's shoulder recording him walking into the Kremlin with a suitcase stuffed with cash, handing it to Vladimir Putin in exchange for a binder clearly marked "Russian Assistance To Get Donald Trump Elected", probably followed by Trump dropping to his knees and blowing Putin for good measure. Just a guess, but that's not likely to happen.

The fact of the matter is that a member of the Trump Campaign/immediate member of the Trump family deliberately and knowingly met with a Russian national for the purpose of getting dirt on an electoral opponent. This is not opinion, this is fact. This is also smoke. And where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Bungled Collusion Is Still Collusion.

To date, the GOP control of Congress has sheltered Trump from the very sort of Congressional investigation that could bring to light the unlawful activities of the Trump Organization in relation to the election. If there's a Democrat takeover the House, there will be committees, there will be more investigations and Trump's lawyers will only be able to shelter him for so long. He's had this coming for decades and he would've been smarter to stay out of the most blinding public light there is, the Presidency of the United States.

[snapper]

Yet, he was not charged. The same standard you applied to Poroshenko. Kettle meet pot. The evidence of both Putin and Poroshenko is before you and you chosed to accept one and deny the other.

Who has Poroshenko had killed or wrongfully imprisoned? Compare with Muscuvy under Putin. Which has free press? Which arrests children?

BTW, there is ZERO evidence against Trump and yet you spout all this horse crap about him being a traitor. This makes you the biggest hypocrit on this board.

Mueller has guilty please from Trump's NSA, Campaign Manager and lawyer apart from others all to do with their connection with Muscovy. So either Trumpkin is most ignorant man ever or he knowing accepted Muscovite help in the election and is compromised.

Horse puckey! If true, they should have been in jail long before this election and out of government by now. They should not even be on the ballot. You're just reaching for any idiotic reasoning you can come up with.

If there is evidence that people are buying votes then obviously the full process of the law should be used against them. But you cannot ban someone from standing on the suspicion they might try to buy votes.

I'll make it plain and simple. You have a Nazi sitting in your House with his own combat experienced personal army on the streets and the cops too scared to stop them.

Hilarious another one who knows my Brother better than I without ever meeting him. Had he served in the Sheik Mansour Battalion doubtless he would be a Muslim extremist. This is akin to saying that all German soldiers who fought during WW2 must be Nazi's and it's just not true. I have already explained why my Brother served with Azov; largely because he could not afford the time that serving in the regular army would entail. Frankly though I do not give a damn there Ukrainian fascist or Muslim extremists fighting to defend Ukraine against an illegal aggression - I have not met a single one in nearly 5yrs - I hope they kill as many invaders as possible and fall in the process. But sure Brother and his family live at home - it is our family home and has been for over 300yrs which we died defending against Tatar's, Turks, Tsarists, Communists and Nazi's. Doesn't matter a damn that it is now in Ukraine and we are Polish - Tsarist, Communist or Putin mob Muscovites coming with arms are not welcome and we shall do utmost to help in defence.

How about Human Rights Watch from inside Ukraine?

There was a case they were interested in to do a Lady called Kateryna Gandzyuk. She was at the time an adviser to the Mayor of Kherson and some bugger poured acid over all her. She was considered a human rights activist but even the right wing National Corps were protesting against the attack on her. The Prosecutors Office at first said "so what?" more or less but later, due to the protests, decided they should maybe take it more seriously.

I got a question though; what about the human rights of those civilians still living at the front?



This was Kramatosk in the summer - a town liberated from Strelkov and his lot in 2014.

Read your own freaking media.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-azov.../29008036.html

Rferl is neither published in Ukraine nor Ukrainian owned. Neither do I own it. Not sure how that qualifies it as "my media". Nor as I have said in the past is Azov full of fascist nutcases though personally I would disagree with them performing a policing role for which they are not trained.

You're shitting me. The same dung bags are still there and you think things have changed just because the papers have changed? On what planet?

Come on them - name me one Minister (or deputy Minister) who is today's Government that was also in Yanukovych's last Government? I agree alot of the same reptiles are still in the Rada but there also alot of more real reformers than there were before the last Rada elections. Mustaffa Nayeem, who started the whole Maidan protest with a post on fb, is an MP. Hanna Hopko is Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee. Svitlana Zalishchuk and Serhiy Leshchenko again are real reformers but they are the next generation. It is alot better than the Rada that passed the 'Dictatorship Law' and though it has not done all that it could have it has passed more reforms than any Parliament in Ukraine's post independence history - most recently equality for men and Ladies serving in the Armed Forces. There is even a female General in the army now.

House with a Capital H. Your legislative branch. Of course, you millenials have no such appreciation for historic conventions.

There's a German in the legistlative branch? Fine but to stand for election you have to have had Ukrainian citizenship for five yrs.

Give me a freaking break! TWO extradiction requests from an "allied" country for a wanted criminal. Not only did Poroshenko ignored those, he granted citizenship to Sarko and the next day, gave him governorship of cash cow Odessa. What, no Ukrainian is worthy of that post?

Do you think Misha would get a fair trial at home? As I said before I was not a fan of his either but I sure as hell would not send anyone home to a fake trial even were they my enemy. You know nothing of Odessa either nor it seems how Ukrainian regional administration works. You see a city such as Odessa has an elected Mayor; in Odessa's case this Gennady Trukhanov, who is proved to have a Muscovite passport by the Panama Papers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennadiy_Trukhanov). In addition to the Mayor there is an appointed regional (Oblast) Governor - appointed by the President. The Mayor in theory should be subordinate to the Governor. When Saakashvilli went against Trukhanov for control of the port Kyiv stupidly did not back him up so he quit and told them in Kyiv what he thought of them.

This ALONE states that Poroshenko's UKR is NO DEFENDER of MY WESTERN VALUES! Appoint a WANTED FOREIGN CRIMINAL as Governor of a cash cow area. And yet, you're disgusted with Trump's grabbed them by the pussy? Had Trump tried this, not only would he have been impeached, he would have been lynched and I will dare say that every American on this board would have been lining up to give that rope a tug.
YOU DO NOT REPRESENT MY VALUES to say the least.

Poroshenko nor I never asked to represent your values and as you are Trumpkin fanboy I shall bear that as a sign of my integrity. I am not a Poroshenko fan - my preference is with reformers I mentioned above but he has overseen more reform than all the time before him and fought a war. It is not entirely a bad record but he has been helped by good advice rather than his own inclinations.

And get the freaking hint! Yanukovych was that powerful and it took an uprising to get rid of him.

Yanukovych is a criminal and belongs in prison. The real ballot question is why he was he allowed to stand in 2010 after the falsifications in 2004 election that lead to Orange Revolution? Perhaps your friend Manafort has some answers since he was a Yanukovych adviser.

And you're a freaking student of history? The Night of the Long Knives was never about votes and 600 men in January of 2017 proved that they're not about votes now.
It's about POWER.

I know of the Night of the Long Knives but not sure what 600 men in 2017 has to do with it.

This is beautiful. This IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! YOU WANT TO KEEP KILLING MUSCOVITES IN YOUR WORDS! Yes, I want you to keep killing Russians. And I DID NOT SAY I WANT YOU TO KEEP KILLING EACH OTHER! I want the UKR to keep killing Russians!
BUT YOU'RE NOT KILLING RUSSIANS! YOU'RE KILLING UKRAINIANS!

Jesus Christ... Who do think used the Buk system that shot down MH-17? Miners and taxi drivers? It is proven that there regular Muscovite troops in Donbass - just as they were the 'little green men' in Crimea. Strelkov... remember him - GRU. All the chain of Command in occupied Donbass is Muscovite. All the fricking evidence in the world - some of which you previously accepted such as Rusi reports - but now you're trying to tell it's nothing to do with Moscow? WE KNOW WE KILL THEM. SOME HAVE ID ON THEM. Others you can identify from pictures on social media.

What I find insulting about all of this is that you keep lecturing us about our house and our rules while saying we have no say in your house and your rules. You're right. I don't have a say in your house and your rules BUT DON'T FREAKING LECTURE US THAT WE SHOULD HELP YOU AND YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOUR VERY HOUSE IS AN INSULT TO OUR IDEALS.

As I recall the only time I tried to lecture you was when you were telling us to put 10,000 men in Mariupol because I thought it was a damn stupid idea... but apparently that was not you telling us about our house. More recently you have told me that Poroshenko is a "mob boss", our legistlators have not changed, that fascists are at large in my country and in the legistlator, that my Brother is a Nazi... but I am not allowed to comment on Trumpkin? Although of course my last few posts have been defending my country from your lies. So it a privaladge only you possess to be critical of the country others? I mean how does this work? Did I ever say Trumpkin was a "mob boss"? Did I claim to know your sibling was a Nazi? But you are a Canadian and it ok for you to slur my nation and be a Trumpkin fanboy... Yes I am delighted I do not represent your values; I pray Ukraine never shall when we have won this war.

If you wish to visit Ukraine I would be very happy to organise guides and a translator for you, even to the front should you wish. Meet some people - speak with them. I could even introduce you to some military commanders and politicians if you wished. You would have to pay for your return flight but for the rest you would be my guest although I would not be able to accompany you most of the time. If then you wish to criticise this nation in the same manner I will leave you to it. Until you know it though do not try tell me that there fascists running amok or that my Brother is a Nazi while telling me not to comment on the narcissist lies of Traitor Trumpkin.

Please see also the video here: http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...e=24&p=1046163

[Bigfella]

Any chance we could move the latest Colonel v Snapper Ukraine debate to a more appropriate thread? Those of us keen to see the same arguments & yelling as in the last few iterations can then get our fill without US politics getting in the way.

[hboGYT]

Sir, that isn't surprising in the least. As has been pointed out in the past, the Watergate scandal took years to unfold. This is bigger than Watergate by an order of magnitude. Trump makes Nixon look like a naughty schoolboy. Mueller is no fool. He'll gather the little fish into his net first.

People seem to want evidence of "Russian Collusion" to consist of a GoPro camera mounted on Donald Trump's shoulder recording him walking into the Kremlin with a suitcase stuffed with cash, handing it to Vladimir Putin in exchange for a binder clearly marked "Russian Assistance To Get Donald Trump Elected", probably followed by Trump dropping to his knees and blowing Putin for good measure. Just a guess, but that's not likely to happen.

The fact of the matter is that a member of the Trump Campaign/immediate member of the Trump family deliberately and knowingly met with a Russian national for the purpose of getting dirt on an electoral opponent. This is not opinion, this is fact. This is also smoke. And where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Bungled Collusion Is Still Collusion.

To date, the GOP control of Congress has sheltered Trump from the very sort of Congressional investigation that could bring to light the unlawful activities of the Trump Organization in relation to the election. If there's a Democrat takeover the House, there will be committees, there will be more investigations and Trump's lawyers will only be able to shelter him for so long. He's had this coming for decades and he would've been smarter to stay out of the most blinding public light there is, the Presidency of the United States.

I tend to echo that sentiment. I disapprove of the notion that, because Mueller apparently hasn't turned up any evidence of collusion within a timeframe of one or two years, the evidence doesn't exist at all. Anyone who believes that are forgetting that Donald Trump is rich and powerful even without his political status. Any evidence of is wrongdoing are most likely expertly hidden.

[zraver]

The fact of the matter is that a member of the Hillary Campaign deliberately and knowingly met with a Russian national for the purpose of getting dirt on an electoral opponent. This is not opinion, this is fact.

Fixed it for ya. I know, I know you've so surrendered in service to the Left that you think that is good collusion, but like bad collusion, its still collusion.

[astralis]

strangely enough, only people indicted so far by the Trump Justice Department are from Trump's campaign...

[Officer of Engineers]

The question remains the same: “What has made us even ask such a question?”

That question was already asked and answered. Richard Nixon. The US and the world carried on with Gerald Ford.

Sir, that isn't surprising in the least. As has been pointed out in the past, the Watergate scandal took years to unfold. This is bigger than Watergate by an order of magnitude. Trump makes Nixon look like a naughty schoolboy. Mueller is no fool. He'll gather the little fish into his net first.

Joe, you can't have it both ways. Either Trump is a bumbling idiot or he's too smart to be compromised by Putin. I think the INF is evidence enough that he is not compromised.

Who has Poroshenko had killed or wrongfully imprisoned? Compare with Muscuvy under Putin. Which has free press? Which arrests children?

Dance all you want. The point remains that Poroshenko's crime based UKR is no defender of the West. We neither need nor want an incapable UKR to defend us, 5 number crunchers in our war room is nothing more than a pat on the head. FYI, Russia is also a NATO Partner. The US, however, remains the true guarrantor of the West and you are not the authority to insult the Americans that they voted wrong.

[DOR]

That question was already asked and answered. Richard Nixon. The US and the world carried on with Gerald Ford.

I'm old enough to remember watching the Watergate hearings.
During the entire event, no one even once suggested Richard Nixon was compromised by a foreign government.

Fake news.

[Officer of Engineers]

I'm old enough to remember watching the Watergate hearings.
During the entire event, no one even once suggested Richard Nixon was compromised by a foreign government.

The point ism't about a President being compromised by a foreign government.

The point is that an American President was incapacitated by criminal acts.

However, as I think about this, Mueller got nothing and he is going to get nothing because he's fishing in the wrong waters. What do we know? Some Russian mob boss told a Saudi Prince he had some dirty email to sell. No such dirt exchanged hands, not even as a sample. To prove Trump of any wrong doing, he would have to know the nature of the crime. He didn't. There is zero evidence to suggest anyone in the Trump camp knew the DNC servers have been hacked. As far as the Trump camp knew, those emails could have been from a disgruntled client of the Clinton Foundation client wishing to protect himself.

While you may think Trump the fool, you should not make that mistake with Putin. He has assets to protect himself. Trump could very well compromised Putin's agents if he lost the election and do recall that everyone, including Trump himself, thought he was not going to win.

Putin used his own assets to hurt Clinton by using a Russian hacker group to release the info.

Mueller has to prove that Trump knew of the emails and he has to prove that Trump knew that Putin was going to release them. That's why he indicted 8 Russian Officers. He's not going the chance.

Even thinking this through. Trump is not a compromised President. Think about this. Would Putin trust a Trump who was going to lose an election with the secrecy of an intelligence operation? Trump was the last one I would trust with SIGSEC and OPSEC, not that we have much choice in the matter right now. A former Berlin Spycheif could not be so dumb.

[astralis]

I think the INF is evidence enough that he is not compromised.

INF withdrawal is driven far more by China than by Russia.