Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Oracle]

I'm an outsider to this. My interest is not who's right or wrong. The only thing that concerns me is who advanced upon whom. Thing that gets me is that didn't the InA at least keep the area under observation and counted the dead?

First thought - GoI gave the details, while China didn't. Obviously PLA was in the wrong.
Second thought - Colonel confused me. I maintained my argument, and retained my first thought.

Third thought - Some questions below.

#1. If the PLA were supposed to vacate the land, would it not be militarily sound and advisable to patrol it the next morning, in daylight?
#2. What was the pressing need to patrol in the night?
#3. Why do we keep saying PLA suffered more casualties?
#4. And if the PLA suffered more casualties, then obviously we outnumbered them. Then how did the PLA attack us with iron rods, batons etc, and still ended with up more casualties.

Something doesn't add up.

[Oracle]

The United States is 'looking at' banning TikTok and other Chinese social media apps, Pompeo says

TikTok's estimated revenue loss from India is $6 Billion. US revenue loss would be at least 3 times more, at $18 Billion.

I don't understand the strategic stupidness of what the Chinese are doing. If anyone understands it, please enlighten me.

[Double Edge]

One problem. India sucks at propaganda! China has decades of it. The 1962 Sino-Indo War was a Chinese military disaster. Who is deemed to have won it? Even in the 1979 Sino-VN War in which the Chinese got their noses bloody, the Chinese threat to VN was not reduced one single bit. Hell, they even spread the Little Red Book across the world, the most worthless piece of garbage of social engineering if there was one.

If it comes down to PR, it's not just the edge that belongs to China but the who damned cliff.

There is a difference in the way they spoke about us at Doklam compared to this standoff. In style and tone.

During Doklam GT was just shooting their mouths off on a daily basis. Hectoring.

This time GT was measured in what they said. More sober. Weren't treating us like nobodys.

Why ? the Americans jumped into this one and acted like a megaphone for us.

In fact we've had to signal to the Americans not to publicly interject themselves too much.

China also senses blow back from other countries as well.

The world thinks differently of China now than back then.

[Double Edge]

I don't understand the strategic stupidness of what the Chinese are doing. If anyone understands it, please enlighten me.

Well, people say they're an old civilisation and think long term : )

[Double Edge]

She Xingping.

A civilisation as old as ours, many ancient inventions to their credit. And look at them today, the direction in which they're heading. We all should be disappointed, not angry, at China.

Extremely so.

We keep hearing China does not want to march to Delhi. Well, that is only partly true.

Chinese businessmen DO want to march to Delhi and will go on their hands and knees if needed.

They want to do the same in every capital in every country of the world.

We go on about 'values' but at the same time are very happy to take the dictators money and trade with said dictators country.

But there is a fundamental disconnect between China wanting to sell and what it wants to be.

The political is not at all in sync with the business side and quite frankly is its own worst enemy.

XJP wants to counter Trump's anti-global drive but all he's doing is strengthening it instead.

[Double Edge]

The plan is to irritate us into submission?

They tried to turn 100 yr old ally Phillipines against the US.

Same plan with Bhutan : /

Difference is Bhutan isn't about to do a Duterte with us.

Taylor Fravel's twitter thread on maps

[Oracle]

They tried to turn 100 yr old ally Phillipines against the US.

Same plan with Bhutan : /

Difference is Bhutan isn't about to do a Duterte with us.

Taylor Fravel's twitter thread on maps

About the Twitter link, I am pretty sure things are not being left to chance.

[Officer of Engineers]

First thought - GoI gave the details, while China didn't. Obviously PLA was in the wrong.
Second thought - Colonel confused me. I maintained my argument, and retained my first thought.

Third thought - Some questions below.

#1. If the PLA were supposed to vacate the land, would it not be militarily sound and advisable to patrol it the next morning, in daylight?
#2. What was the pressing need to patrol in the night?
#3. Why do we keep saying PLA suffered more casualties?
#4. And if the PLA suffered more casualties, then obviously we outnumbered them. Then how did the PLA attack us with iron rods, batons etc, and still ended with up more casualties.

Something doesn't add up.

I'm really glad to see that not only you no longer take things at face value but also gained the insight to read between the lines.

[Officer of Engineers]

A civilisation as old as ours, many ancient inventions to their credit. And look at them today, the direction in which they're heading. We all should be disappointed, not angry, at China.

Here's a hint: XJP is 67 years old. Modi is 69 years old. The shit about 5000 year Chinese and Indian civilizations mean crap all. A man can only learn so much in one life time. XJP has 67 years of knowledge, not 5000. Same applies to Modi and everyone else. Both stands on shoulders of giants who done the real work and done the real teaching but don't attribute the works of giants to them.

[Double Edge]

Here is the CCTV4 program that aired showing Indian positions.

Unless you understand mandarin, there is an subtitled short english summary on CGTN

NewsX take

Times Now take

China TV, Attempting Propaganda On Ladakh, Helps Boost India's Claim | NDTV | Jul 07 2020

They are claiming this is an Indian heli-pad on the embankment, heh



They say we have intruded into their space. They say this because they claim the entire Galwan valley that is reaching right up to the Shyok. But the LAC runs a little south of that bend with the embankment. We've retained our stretch of the Galwan thus far.

[Double Edge]

During the Cold War, the Sovet Army routinely occupied Chinese territory, not even disputed territory but two to three miles over the border. Chinese airspace was routinely violated 100 miles in. No such terriotrial occupation nor airspace violation is happening today.

The Chinese DID NOT intend to challenge the Soviet Army nor the MiGs at the border. The battlefield was chosen 100 miles into Chinese territory. This was to stretch Soviet LOCs and use geographic strong points to help to contain any Soviet thrust.

Why didn't the Chinese follow the same policy with us ? instead of grabbing and fight over territory like they did since the 50s

Relations would have been better and the boundary would have been settled long ago.

Instead we see they try to expand where ever they can.

They got all of Tibet still they argue over small bits here and there. Insane.

[Oracle]

Why didn't the Chinese follow the same policy with us ? instead of grabbing and fight over territory like they did since the 50s

Relations would have been better and the boundary would have been settled long ago.

Instead we see they try to expand where ever they can.

They got all of Tibet still they argue over small bits here and there. Insane.

And give up the position of imminent power of Asia to India?

China doesn't want to settle the boundary issue as it bogs us down on our eastern front, while they use Pakistani terrorism to tie us down on the western front. It's cold calculus of Chinese geo-politics. From an Indian PoV, it's not working. But from a Chinese PoV it's working great, and hence they are pursuing it, much like the state terrorism policies of Pakistan.

How will it end, IDK. But I do know, time has come to take back PoJ&K and GB. Terrorism will then reduce to a trickle, and the Chinese will probably see no need of Pakistan.

Well, people say they're an old civilisation and think long term : )

India is 1.3 billion. I still see lot of land for people to settle down, particularly in the NE. It will affect forest land no doubt, but we can maintain a population of upto 2 billion. Getting food for them is a different matter altogether. China is 1.35 billion, I think, and the land mass they have is huge. Fake nationalistic pride drive people and nations to do crazy things.

China has never been put to task. Had China been stopped after the Tiananmen Square massacre, or even before, during their cultural revolution, they would not have become the closed authoritarian state they are today. But, such is the nature of geo-politics and short term thinkers, particularly US thinkers during that era, that China has grown to be what it is today. The story is the same of Pakistan. Well, everybody predicted India will fragment into tiny nation states after her birth. So much for thinkers.

Xi ain't Mao. Xi thinks short term. He wants to be Alexander the Great and conquer as much territory as possible. The pushback he'll get will be his downfall.

[Oracle]

Here's a hint: XJP is 67 years old. Modi is 69 years old. The shit about 5000 year Chinese and Indian civilizations mean crap all. A man can only learn so much in one life time. XJP has 67 years of knowledge, not 5000. Same applies to Modi and everyone else. Both stands on shoulders of giants who done the real work and done the real teaching but don't attribute the works of giants to them.

True, true and true.

[Double Edge]

We settled the Depsang & Chumar intrusions by demolishing fortified positions in Burtse, Demchok & Chumar

As China intrudes across LAC, India must be alert to a larger strategic shift | IE | May 26 2020

Stobdan thinks this is their plan

Overall, the pattern shows the PLA’s desperate design to snatch the lake at Lukung through a three-pronged strategy of attacking from Sirijap in the north, Chuchul in the south and through the lake water from middle. This is the key chokepoint from where the Chinese can cut off Indian access to the entire flank of Chip Chap plains, Aksai Chin in the east and Shayok Valley to the north, which means that Indian control is pushed to the west of the Shyok river and south of the Indus river, forcing India to accept both rivers as natural boundaries.

And once China gets control of the southern side of the Karakoram it can easily approach Siachen Glacier from the Depsang corridor and meet at Tashkurgan junction from where the CPEC crosses into Gilgit-Baltistan.

That would be disastrous for Indian defence, leaving the strategic Nubra vulnerable, possibly impacting even India’s hold over Siachen.

China’s access to Changla-pass through Lukung and Tangtse would threaten the entire Indus Valley.

It is quite possible that China is eyeing the waters of the Shyok, Galwan and Chang-Chenmo rivers, to divert them to the arid Aksai Chin and its Ali region.

[Oracle]

I'm really glad to see that not only you no longer take things at face value but also gained the insight to read between the lines.

Thank you for your kind words Colonel.

Sir, when Doval and Wang Yi spoke which started this dis-engagement and withdrawal, they had their tense moments. Both accused the other side of starting this brawl. Now, a young Indian Army officer (Lieutenant) punched a PLA Major in Naku La, Sikkim - as per reports the PLA Major was being confrontational, dis-respectful and pushed an IA officer leading the team. This is confirmed. This type of news do not remain within their units. Within hours, this news would get passed onto every IA formations along the LAC and LoC.

Army is not the police. They always keep objectives on their mind, until fulfilled, or dead.

What the IA probably sees is the PLA doing salami slicing of Indian territories and thus gaining an advantage on ground positions (heights), and the GoI doing nothing about it. India have done this before. Gains in wars won, were lost in political high tables. Tempers flared, and the IA went on prepared for any eventuality to see whether the PLA has vacated Indian lands. Someone from some side pushed someone, someone landed the first punch, and it was free for all brawl. Right now, I think we started this, and what happened could have been prevented had the Chinese not been so adamant and expansionist in their claims.

I actually said before to kill 40-50 PLA troops to make an example of them. I didn't know it would come true, or where things will get from there. One thing is certain, Indo-China relations have nosedived. I still have so many doubts. About intel, particularly US intel, on who started the brawl. They said it was the PLA. Even if the IA landed the first punch, they were on ground zero, they witnessed creeping Chinese territorial grab of our lands, and they know best how to deal with the PLA. My Army has my support.