HMS Illustrious

[blidgepump]

The Silent Service....

Yeh keep going and while you're at it remind me of their last major naval engagement or amphibious assualt...


We've started building the new fleet of SSBN's..First one is now being built

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equi...uccessor-class

Okay, so I am understanding the tone of the comments.... Subs are "bigger bang" for the few remaining funds in military budgets?

[Toby]

Okay, so I am understanding the tone of the comments.... Subs are "bigger bang" for the few remaining funds in military budgets?

From what I understand. They've started on them now to stop a skills gap developing. Which is what happened a few years back when it was decided to build the Astute class. We had to lean on our American brothers in certain areas to regain the skill sets. Hopefully that won't happen to the same extent this time..If we leave it any longer it will happen.

[kato]

Subs are "bigger bang" for the few remaining funds in military budgets?

The four replacement SSBN come with a bill of 31 billion pounds. They're built in cooperation with a US programme to replace the Ohios (at 100 billion USD for 12 subs).

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/19/bri...-new-u-k-ssbns

For the same price they could probably build four carriers and buy both a wing of F-35B and a pair of Darings as escorts for each of them.

[Toby]

The four replacement SSBN come with a bill of 31 billion pounds. They're built in cooperation with a US programme to replace the Ohios (at 100 billion USD for 12 subs).

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/19/bri...-new-u-k-ssbns

For the same price they could probably build four carriers and buy both a wing of F-35B and a pair of Darings as escorts for each of them.

As a full member of NATO, its not just the UK that benefits from these beasts. You wouldn't happen to know how many years the 31Billion is spread over? I'm thinking its 10 plus years and then obviously we have running costs.
I appreciate its hard to understand the expenditure for some people, a little like the foreign aid budget is for others. I understand both...unfortunate but necessary!

[kato]

More than 10, the first one would only commission in 12 years (and by now 5.2 billion have already been spent on development).

The running costs are not included in the 31 billion. Neither is a replacement of the missiles btw. There were some estimates by opponents of the programme this summer that the full bill with those included over a timeframe of 30 years after commissiong would come to 205 billion pounds, see e.g. here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ts-for-against

[Toby]

More than 10, the first one would only commission in 12 years (and by now 5.2 billion have already been spent on development).

The running costs are not included in the 31 billion. Neither is a replacement of the missiles btw. There were some estimates by opponents of the programme this summer that the full bill with those included over a timeframe of 30 years after commissiong would come to 205 billion pounds, see e.g. here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ts-for-against

I remember seeing a current one returning up the Clyde about 20 years ago, With its Jolly roger quite prominent. I'd arrived early in the morning at a sailing club and was just sat waiting for somebody to open up. When I noticed this object on the water it'd be about between 7-8 am. Quite sinister to look at!

[Gun Grape]

Yeh keep going and while you're at it remind me of their last major naval engagement or amphibious assualt...

Your Navy has a VSTOL Carrier (We call them LHAs) with no planes in the near future.

And your Destroyer fleet (5 ships + 1 made a training boat) is broke


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/692...y-test-engines

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...days-port.html

When was the last time your Navy conducted an unassisted Amph Assault? How many of those ships are left?

[Toby]

Your Navy has a VSTOL Carrier (We call them LHAs) with no planes in the near future.

And your Destroyer fleet (5 ships + 1 made a training boat) is broke


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/692...y-test-engines

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...days-port.html

When was the last time your Navy conducted an unassisted Amph Assault? How many of those ships are left?

We no longer have any VSTOL carriers, the only carrier we have at present is HMS Ocean. Due to the fact that we are investing through America in the most sophisticated combat plane ever built, we are experiencing some delays, However because we have an open and informative government. This information is freely available. Unlike Russia that has no 5th Gen program, or maybe they didn't inform anybody or maybe it just doesn't exist......

If we are talking only RN then we have as follows ( this is free information, anybody can access it)

7 attack subs

4 SSBN subs

3 Amphibious assault vessels

6 Missile destroyers

13 Frigates

15 mine countermeasure vessels

4 off shore patrol vessels (more like a corvette in appearance)

18 fast patrol vessels

oh and 2 Carriers in building

As for your question about unassisted amphibious assaults, very rarely has this ever happened. Gallipoli was a joint amphibious assault, as was Salerno or Anzio or D day etc but the predominant ships were British. I would have to say the Falklands at San Carlos bay. The most recent amphibious assault carried out by British or Her Majesties ships was the assault at Al Faw in Iraq with American forces.
Maybe you'd like to tell me which ships were involved?

[Gun Grape]

We no longer have any VSTOL carriers, the only carrier we have at present is HMS Ocean. Due to the fact that we are investing through America in the most sophisticated combat plane ever built, we are experiencing some delays, However because we have an open and informative government. This information is freely available. Unlike Russia that has no 5th Gen program, or maybe they didn't inform anybody or maybe it just doesn't exist......

I gave you the QE since she is in PCS.

Don't know why you mentioned the Russians.

Of the 4 countries I mentioned, Italy is getting the 35B for her 2 VSTOL carriers in service. France flies the Rafael M off her real Aircraft Carrier(Catobar). Japan and Korea will get the 35A. Korea may get the 35B for use from her 1 (+1) LPHs

If we are talking only RN then we have as follows ( this is free information, anybody can access it)

7 attack subs France 6/ Italy 7, ROK 15, Japan 17

4 SSBN subs France 4

3 Amphibious assault vessels France 1 ROK 5 (+3) Japan 3

6 Missile destroyers France 12, Italy 4, ROK 12, Japan 36

13 Frigates France 11, Italy 14, ROK 13

oh and 2 Carriers (STOVL) in building France has 1 CATOBAR carrier in service.Italy 2 STOVL Korea is buying F-35Bs for their LPH, Japans 4 DDHs are STOVL carriers in hiding

All the MCM and below ships don't give throw weight so I'll stop at combatant ships.

As for your question about unassisted amphibious assaults, very rarely has this ever happened. Gallipoli was a joint amphibious assault, as was Salerno or Anzio or D day etc but the predominant ships were British. I would have to say the Falklands at San Carlos bay. The most recent amphibious assault carried out by British or Her Majesties ships was the assault at Al Faw in Iraq with American forces.
Maybe you'd like to tell me which ships were involved?

The American Ships/support or the British ones?

Numbers for the various navy ships came from Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nch_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ian_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rea_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...se_Force_ships

[kato]

France has 3 LHDs (Mistral class) in service, not one. Italy has three smaller LPDs, which it is currently in the process of replacing with a LHD (that will also replace the second STOVL carrier, by numbers and functionally) and two new larger LPDs.

[Toby]

I gave you the QE since she is in PCS.

Ah right, not for a few more years yet...This all to do with getting our books back in order. We're one of the few countries that is actually attempting to do this.

Don't know why you mentioned the Russians.

Hard to know what the Russians are upto. They are not as forth coming as Western nations are

Of the 4 countries I mentioned, Italy is getting the 35B for her 2 VSTOL carriers in service. France flies the Rafael M off her real Aircraft Carrier(Catobar). Japan and Korea will get the 35A. Korea may get the 35B for use from her 1 (+1) LPHs

I'm not aware of any of them performing any naval warfare or amphibious assault. Understandably Japan and N. Korea have invested heavily in fleets due to their neighbours. Can the Italian fleet actually afford to set Sail??

All the MCM and below ships don't give throw weight so I'll stop at combatant ships.

Necessary non the less

The American Ships/support or the British ones?

All of them

Numbers for the various navy ships came from Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nch_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ian_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rea_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...se_Force_ships

Wiki is brilliant but I'd always try to cross reference, very useful though. By the way the MOD deny the report in "the Independent" newspaper about Dauntless being used as a training ship due to manpower and technical shortages.

[Gun Grape]

I'm not aware of any of them performing any naval warfare or amphibious assault. Understandably Japan and N. Korea have invested heavily in fleets due to their neighbours. Can the Italian fleet actually afford to set Sail??

Where have you been? The French Navy has routinely deployed their CV in support of the war on terror. Worked as part of the Battle fleet alongside US Carriers. Conducted both offensive missions (Air Strikes) and provided CAP in rotation with the US Carriers. A French Navy Adm has also been in command of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command's Task Force 50. The only time a non US Officer was in charge.

They also took part in the Libyan intervention in 2011. Flying over 1000 sorties from the CDG.

The French, ROK and Japan train with the USMC in Amphibious operations and could/would integrate just as well as the RMs at Al Faw.

All of them

Later, Wife just put Supper on the table.

[Toby]

Where have you been? The French Navy has routinely deployed their CV in support of the war on terror. Worked as part of the Battle fleet alongside US Carriers. Conducted both offensive missions (Air Strikes) and provided CAP in rotation with the US Carriers. A French Navy Adm has also been in command of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command's Task Force 50. The only time a non US Officer was in charge.

They also took part in the Libyan intervention in 2011. Flying over 1000 sorties from the CDG.

The French, ROK and Japan train with the USMC in Amphibious operations and could/would integrate just as well as the RMs at Al Faw.


Later, Wife just put Supper on the table.

Apologies, I was excluding the French, I know they are very active especially in Africa. The RN carriers are being built with Thales, So it is a collaboration with the French .....which does make sense.

I'd never keep a man from his food! ;)

[snapper]

When was the last time your Navy conducted an unassisted Amph Assault? How many of those ships are left?

The Falklands.

[Chunder]

Okay, so I am understanding the tone of the comments.... Subs are "bigger bang" for the few remaining funds in military budgets?

They go 'bang' alright, without ASW to patrol.

Wasn't it the french protecting your strategic deterrent?