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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate
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There will come a point where Obama would be forced to say "Cool it!" to Erdogan.Chimo -
I think the US is waiting for the proper diplomatic moment to extradite them to the US as a middle finger to Erdogan. If he reinstates the death penalty for example.Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostComment
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Am on the same page hereOriginally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostNo such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.Comment
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Doesn't explain everything. When you have a small force trying to do the impossible. You have one chance. Hit hard. Hit fast. And keep on hitting. You don't wait around on a bridge. You blow a slab to block traffic and goto your next target.Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostChimoComment
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I think it's an indication of a cellular organization. The organizers find small groups they think they can count on, and give them a very specific job (hold the bridge) but not much of the wider picture.Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
When they go off half cocked, not everyone gets the go order, and not every group is able or willing to jump in when they see the half assed attempt. Thus the disjointed effort.Comment
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Times reports that supposedly as of last night, 14 ships remain at sea and have been out of contact with the Turkish Navy since saturday. The ships supposedly include a frigate and several corvettes, mostly in the Aegaean; the head of the Turkish Navy is also unaccounted for since the coup. Only media outlets that have picked it up are British, Russian and Azerbaijani ones, so the veracity is kinda doubtable. The Turkish Deputy PM on behalf of the Presidential Office (i.e. Erdogan) has denied the report after being asked by RIA Novosti.Comment
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This is Command 101, don't start a fight you can't win.Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostChimoComment
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Hence why it failed.Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostNo such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.Comment
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I don't disagree, but once the plot was discovered prematurely it became a use it or lose it situation. They took a gamble and lost.Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostComment
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Is it fair to say that the coup was secular in motive?
It wasn't the right play on multiple levels and I don't know much about Turkey, but my gut tells me it would have been better off having succeeded once initiated.
Dark days for Turkey if what we are seeing is a rout of Turkey's moderates and secularists. Nice play with words by the USA and Europe calling Turkey a democracy. I guess by Middle Eastern standards its a shining beacon...But I appreciate you can't back a loser, and Turkey is important.
Guess the west can welcome anyone from Turkey with a sane head, and just a few without, what's one more country from the middle east to add to the brain drain.
It's getting very difficult indeed to maintain a positive outlook on the future of any of the region.
Can the US do anything to influence Turkey in the right direction? What are the paths available? And is Erdogan in it for himself or an Islamist at heart?Comment
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That would imv be an almost suicidal idea. No, not realistically. We have to keep Turkey on side if only for control of the Straits.Originally posted by Big K View Post
Originally posted by Big K View PostI 100% agree with both. In regard to Hellas sort Cyprus etc is needed first I think. Also acknowledging past 'problems' and some concessions to Armenia/Hayastan and resolving the Nagorno Karabakh/Artsak issue would yield many positive advantages for Turkey, strategic and financial, with regard to Caspian oil/gas supply and transit. There is also the possibility of a Black Sea alliance of course... As for a secular Turkey I am a Catholic and while my religion informs my views on some 'political' issues (abortion, same sex marriage etc) it does not dictate them; I am not against all abortions or anyone marrying anyone - if a Priest/Minister/some willing local Government representative etc can be found who will perform the ceremony. Certainly I would never consider either myself of course but I do not have the right to inflict my beliefs on others.Originally posted by Big K
I laughed when I read this Sir. For once I admit you have the better of me... I was wondering why they had not blown the damn bridge. It stops all and sends a message that you are serious...Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostComment
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It was undemocratic in motive.Originally posted by tantalus View Post
For the coup plotters, yes. For the rest of Turkey? No.Originally posted by tantalus View Post
Dark days were here once the first soldier took up his coup position. 1000s were going to be rounded up regardless in the aftermath. If the coup had succeeded, it would have been 1000s of Turks who did nothing wrong but believed in Erdogan. Instead, we have 1000s of people being punished for not believing in Erdogan. Either way, 1000s of people were going to be punished.Originally posted by tantalus View Post
Rightly or wrongly, Erodogan is the elected head.Originally posted by tantalus View PostChimoComment
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Good enough reason to hand him over...Greece begins extradition of Turkish coup soldiers
Greece PM acknowledges ‘importance for the whole region of maintaining the constitutional democratic regime and stability in Turkey’
18.07.2016 Hale Türkeş Ankara Turkey, world, europe
http://aa.com.tr/en/europe/greece-be...oldiers/609984
ANKARA
Greece initiated extradition procedures against eight Turkish military officers who fled in a helicopter following a failed coup attempt, the Turkish prime ministry said Sunday.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras called Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim late Sunday, confirming that the extradition process had begun, the ministry said in a statement.
Tsipras congratulated Turkish citizens and their government on efforts to render the attempted coup unsuccessful, acknowledging the "importance for the whole region of maintaining the constitutional democratic regime and stability in Turkey".
The Greek prime minister also reiterated the support of his government and people, the statement said.
Yildirim thanked Tsipras for the sensitivity and support of the Greek government in the process.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Sunday that in a telephone conversation with Tsipras the previous night, the Greek leader told him that the Turkish officers would be returned within 10 to 15 days.
The Black Hawk helicopter used in the attempted escape was returned Saturday to Turkey.
https://www.thenation.com/article/th...in-in-america/The Man Accused of Inspiring Turkey’s Coup Is Behind the Largest Charter-School Chain in America
The schools have been investigated for corruption.
By George JosephTwitter
Today 11:24 am
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Fethullah Gulen reading
Turkish Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen sits at his residence in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, United States. (AP Photo / Selahattin Sevi, File)
Until last Friday, most Americans had probably never heard of Fethullah Gülen—the controversial Sunni cleric now accused of fomenting a coup attempt in Turkey. But the aged cleric, currently exiled in the Poconos, Pennsylvania, has far greater influence on US society than most realize.
Since 2002, Gülen-affiliated foundations have quietly built up the largest charter-school network in America, with over 130 schools in 26 different states nationwide. This rapid buildup is troubling, however, since financial records suggest the cleric’s charter-school network has routinely funneled public-education dollars to its own members, often with unclear benefit to students.
The last time the Gülen movement made national news was in the summer of 2014, after the FBI raided the offices of a Gülen-linked charter operator, Concept Schools, seeking information about companies it had contracted with under the federal E-Rate program for its schools across the Midwest.
The charter operator’s disbursal of E-Rate dollars for school-technology installation was highly suspect, since the service provider in question, Core Group, had E-rate contracts, amounting to over $2.87 million, only from these Gülen-linked charter schools. According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Department of Education investigators claimed that the Gülen charter operator, Concept Schools, had violated government bidding rules, funneling over $5 million in E-Rate funds to firms with ties to the operator.
The last time the Gülen movement made national news was the 2014 FBI raid of a Gülen-linked charter school operator.
FBI investigation notwithstanding, an analysis of E-Rate records suggests that similar funneling schemes continue to to this day in Gülen-linked schools across the country.
Between 2012 and 2015, Apex Educational Services, Inc. applied for 18 E-Rate contracts. All were from Gülen-linked charter-school chains in California and Colorado. While Apex Educational Services, Inc. presents itself as an independent education-technology firm, according to a 2013 IRS filing, Apex is listed as a property of the Gülen-affiliated Sonoran Science Academy in Chandler, Arizona. Furthermore, the contact provided for Apex Educational Services, according to the USAC federal contract database, is Nuriles Sopolov, a former IT manager at another Gülen-linked charter school in Las Vegas.
Similarly, between 2010 to 2014 Brighten Technologies earned roughly $670,000 from 23 E-Rate contracts from the Gülen-linked Texas charter chain Harmony Public Schools. Founded and staffed by former Harmony computer-science teachers, 94 percent of Brighten Technologies’ E-Rate applications were for Harmony Public Schools’ contracts, as of 2014. And across the country, tech and construction firms tied to the Gülen movement have made millions from contracts from the generous contracts of Gülen-linked charter schools.
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“This movement became what it became not because of the genius or otherworldly truths pontificated by Fetullah Gülen, but because of their ability to rationalize a particular brand of Islam in such a way that produced material reward,” says Joshua Hendrick, a sociology professor at Loyola University, who notes that the network’s pervasive self-dealing is called “friendship marketing.”
This self-dealing also extends to offers of employment, often to Turkish university graduates, who do not necessarily have significant teaching experience.
As the The Philadelphia Inquirer pointed out, Gülen schools are among the nation’s highest users of H1B visas, receiving 684 approvals for visas in 2009, outpacing corporate multinationals, such as Google, which only got 440 that year. Similarly, from 2001–15, the Texas Gülen chain, Harmony Public Schools, filed 3,280 visa applications for numerous positions, including physical education teachers, English teachers, human-resources managers, superintendents, and counselors, which would not seem to be hard to fill from the domestic labor pool.
Amsterdam & Partners, a law firm representing the Turkish government, estimates such H-1B expenditures may have cost the Gülen Texas schools over $6.5 million in public funds.
While the network’s schools cite a supposed lack of qualified teachers in the United States, Hendricks points out that journalists should be asking why the schools seem only able to find these high-caliber instructors in Turkey. And some parents and students claim these teachers are not always experienced, and sometimes struggle to communicate in English.
Christian Fifi-Culp, a former student at the Gülen-linked Harmony Academy of Science, switched back to a traditional public school after one year. “I don’t think any of the teachers were good,” says Fifi-Culp. “A lot were pretty terrible…. at my public school now I have teachers who have been there a long time and want to teach kids, whereas at Harmony a lot of teachers were new to it and didn’t seem dedicated.”
“This is an economic network that provides jobs for recent graduates, who themselves are coming up through the network from some Turkish network,” notes Hendrick, who argues that the Gülen movement’s self-dealing is to be expected, given the nature of the charter-school sector.
“By creating an environment that thrives off the private model of education, this is clearly one result that’s going to happen…,” says Hendrick, “The school-choice movement in the United States created an opportunity by providing public dollars where private capital would have previously been secured.”
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew RidgwayComment
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Guess Putin will be presented with their heads...
Pilots who shot down Russian jet arrested over Turkish coup plot: report claims
“Two Turkish pilots who shot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border were taken into custody,” local media says
Editor / Internet
15:40 Temmuz 19, 2016
http://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/pil...claims-2496441
Turkish pilots who downed a Russian jet that violated Turkish airspace near Syrian border last year are claimed to be arrested over their link with recent failed coup plot, according to local media report.
“Two Turkish pilots who shot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border were taken into custody,” local media cited a senior official as saying.
The downing incident caused a diplomatic crisis between Ankara and Moscow that spread to economic, business, trade, and other bilateral relations.
It said that at least one of the pilots is claimed to have taken part in the coup attempt that killed more than 200 people, mostly civilians, and injured nearly 1500 others.
But Turkish Justice Ministry Bekir Bozdağ did not confirmed the detention of the pilots.
“We heard news about the two pilots' detainment, but the issue needs to be confirmed,” Bozdağ said while asked about the reports.
More than 7500 people, mostly soldiers with different ranks, were arrested so far for their links with the failed coup attempt.To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew RidgwayComment
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Rebel troops killed almost two hundred civilians and tried to overthrow an elected government to put another Islamist in power, we put people to death in the US for much smaller body counts.
Turkey's President Erdogan won't rule out death penalty
By Emanuella Grinberg and Sheena McKenzie, CNN
r
Story highlights
Turkey's President says those convicted of plotting against him may face death penalty
Formal request for Fethullah Gulen's extradition expected within days
(CNN)Turkey's President refuses to rule out the death penalty for thousands of people arrested after a failed military coup Friday, despite warnings that reintroducing capital punishment could dash Turkey's chances of joining the European Union.
Speaking through his translator in an exclusive interview with CNN's Becky Anderson, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called the failed military coup a "clear crime of treason."
The Turkish people have made it clear they want death for the "terrorists" who plotted the coup, Erdogan said in his first interview since the July 15 attempt.
"The people now have the idea, after so many terrorist incidents, that these terrorists should be killed, that's where they are, they don't see any other outcome to it," he said.
Who is President Recep Tayyip Erdogan?
"Why should I keep them and feed them in prisons, for years to come? That's what the people say," he said. "They want a swift end to it, because people lost relatives, lost neighbors, lost children ... they're suffering, so the people are very sensitive and we have to act very sensibly and sensitively."
The comments come in the wake of the President's vow over the weekend that those responsible "will pay a heavy price for this act of treason."
A total of 8,777 officers from the Turkish Ministry of Interior have so far been removed from office, according to the state-run Anadolu news agency.
Among the arrested are 103 generals and admirals, a third of the general-rank command of the Turkish military.
It would take a parliamentary decision in the form of a constitutional measure to make the death penalty an option, Erdogan said.
"Leaders will have to get together and discuss it and if they accept to discuss it then I as President will approve any decision that comes out of the parliament," he said.
Turkey abolished the death penalty for peacetime crimes in 2002, followed by a total ban in 2004 as part of a series of human rights reforms undertaken for its membership bid for the European Union.
If Turkey does reintroduce the death penalty, it won't be joining the European Union, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said earlier Monday.
Within 12 hours, 'the results we wanted'
Erdogan said he was on vacation with his wife, son-in-law, and grandchildren in the resort town of Marmaris when he was informed on Friday that there was "some kind of movement" in Istanbul, Ankara and other cities.
With his family and a few "very close people" from his inner circle he followed recommendations to move to a safer location by plane.
While they were in the air, the air traffic control tower at Istanbul's Ataturk Airport was under the control of soldiers attempting the coup, he said. Upon discovering the airstrip lights were turned off, he and his pilots considered landing using onboard lights.
Forces loyal to Erdogan retook the air traffic control tower and the plane was able to land, Erdogan said, but they soon heard booms.
"Starting from the moment we landed, F-16s started flying above us, very close to the ground," Erdogan said.
As tanks rolled through the streets of the capital, Ankara, and Istanbul, Erdogan said he addressed the nation via FaceTime because the national TV broadcast was not reaching people's televisions.
Exclusive: Turkish president describes night of coup attempt
Exclusive: Turkish president describes night of coup attempt 06:10
Speaking through a CNN Turk anchor who held her phone so viewers could see it, he urged people to stand up to the military faction behind the uprising.
"Go to the streets and give them their answer."
Throughout the ordeal it "never crossed my mind" that he would no longer be President, he said.
Within 12 hours the coup had been foiled and the government had "the results we wanted," he said.
The "invaders" would be dealt with quickly.
Erdogan rejected any claims that he would use the attempted coup, considered an act of terrorism by his government, as justification for a crackdown against his opponents.
Erdogan said he and his government had to do the "right thing" and that an "oppressive figure" would never have received 52% of the popular vote, a reference to his win in the 2014 presidential election.
He added that he has "no issues" when it comes to a free press. But, if there are media outlets that sided with and supported the plotters of the attempted coup, the justice system would need to take steps, he said.
Extradition a 'mutual agreement'
With arrests made in Turkey and eight soldiers who fled to Greece awaiting extradition, Erdogan addressed the status of Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, who is in self-imposed exile in the United States.
Erdogan has previously blamed Gulen for the attempted coup, a claim that Gulen has denied.
A formal written request for the extradition of Gulen will be submitted within days, Erdogan told Anderson.
Who is Fethullah Gulen?
When asked what he would do if the United States refused to extradite Gulen, he said "we have a mutual agreement of extradition of criminals."
"So now you ask someone to be extradited, you're my strategic partner, I do obey, I do abide by that, but you don't do the same thing -- well, of course, there should be reciprocity in the types of things," the President continued.
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the United States hadn't yet received a formal request from Turkey for Gulen's extradition.To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew RidgwayComment
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