'History Created' Says PM After India, Iran, Afghan Sign Trade Corridor Pact

[Oracle]

Moscow did asked for Indian support, including military, which would include when, where, and how many Indian troops are required. The details of those requests were not shared.

Details were not shared with India I guess. I also guess India declined? OR, maybe those information remain classified even today.

Damn, that was the third best chance for India to take back PoK after 1947-48, and 71.

At the time, the Brits couldn't leave fast enough and staying to solve the Partition Problem was not what they wanted to do.

What partition problem? Are you're talking about the unfinished border issues of McMahon Line & Durand Line?

I couldn't help think why did the Brits leave in a hurry after the war. Was it because of:

#1. Roosevelt's strong stance against colonialism and imperialism. He did advise Churchill to grant independence to it's colonies after the war, right?

#2. The cost of winning the war drained Britain's resources and in no way the Brits could have managed their colonies from India to Africa (?).

#3. The talk/pact between Brits and Gandhi (Congress) to have Indians serve under the BIA in WWII in different theaters, and independence in return after the war?

From what I've gathered, British India is not a favoured study but the information has been open source for 100s of years. Google the Great Game.

Open source for 100s of years? Books by historians you mean? There is nothing in the MEA website. I did google Great Game, though.

[Officer of Engineers]

Think you answered your own questions.

[Firestorm]

If the rail line stops at the Afghan border. It doesn't. Now, how much of that $400 million dollar steel that you're donating is going to disappear?

The rail line goes up to Zahedan which is close to the Afghan border. From there it can connect to the existing network inside Iran and maybe eventually Turkmenistan. Everything does not have to go to or from Afghanistan.

[Deltacamelately]

So, the creation of Pakistan was not entirely for a land-mass for the Muslims of the sub-continent , but was also a British policy to stop the Soviets from colonizing India by creating Pakistan as a buffer. Or atleast that's what the Brits thought.

How does Delta know about all of this and ordinary citizens like me don't? Classified information or information that the GoI doesn't want us to know? Congress suckers.

Oracle,

Unlike whatever the political masters of both India and Pakistan would want everybody to believe, the creation of Pakistan was partly because of the British assessment of the Soviet's expansionist designs and partly because Nehru and the INC's trust on that British assessment and the associated fear of another imperial colonization and partly because of their reluctance to play ball with their retreating masters.

The British knew it as early as by the middle of WWII, that they would have to grant India independence and leave after the war concludes. However, as soon as Berlin fell to the Red Army and the Soviet's started mopping one area after another, the way the mopped-up Manchuria within weeks after the vanquishing of the AXIS powers, the strategic bells at London started ringing Big Time, leading to Churchill putting up demands of British military bases in North Western India post independence to contain and monitor the Red Army. Such was the British paranoia about a definite Soviet thrust towards the Arabian Sea, that when the INC(more particularly Patel) firmly rejected such demands of military bases in India post independence, that they directly counselled the Indian Muslim League for putting up demands of a separate Muslim homeland for the Subcontinent's Muslims, while making it amply clear that the said Muslim state(it being obviously situated, atleast in parts, in the North Western India) would have to serve as an extended British and possibly American military base. What better instrument to put to use, for attaining such ends than religion? Neither Jinnah nor the Muslim League would otherwise cultivate such hopes in hell of a separate Muslim homeland within the Indian Subcontinent, hadn't they realised that the British would firmly back any such demand.

It is also very prudent to understand that the occupation of Gilgit, Skardu and the Northern Areas by the PA in 1948(still commanded by British Generals), was more of a British/American strategic design than a Pakistani one, even though not directly aimed at harming India but rather to hold the perceived Soviet advance.

And coming to the bolded part - Well, most know this, even if people won't admit. Whether it is the Indians and Pakistanis, British or to that effect the Americans.

[anil]

If you actually research about the muslim league pre 47, they existed only in ghettos around metros like mumbai, lucknow, kolkatta etc. If you go to bendi bazar, musafir khanna, kamatipura areas in mumbai today, you can still glimpse into the past of their existence pre 47 because it hasn't changed much. Technically, the ML's existence and numbers were negligible however due to the lack(or absence) of police administration, they were able to cause riots and chaos across the nation. This was too much for the inexperienced nehru and his congress who ran to the british for guidance. They didn't understand or realize that everything revolved around the US-russia global power struggle. By the time he realized what happened, he brought NAM but it was too late.

If you understand all this, understand also that to respond to pakistan, you first need to siege diego garcia. This would have already happened in 1971, under indiras command but the soviets withdrew support at the last minute. Not much has changed after 9/11.

[YoungIndia]

I couldn't help think why did the Brits leave in a hurry after the war. Was it because of:

Nationalism came to asia in the 20 th century in a big way and the growth of nationalism in india has reached a strong point.

Earlier it was a age of empire and kingdoms.In 1823 the vienna convention could count only 23 member countries.

Then nationalism gained momentum in europe with france(french revolution)) germany, italy in the 1860-70 and after the first world war states like yugoslavia, hungary were formed.

Some asian states in middle east were formed after ww1. The nationalists of asia were inspiring each other.

In india it evolved through our free dom struggle.

Gandhi's mass based campiagn and initiatives by revolutionaries and Bose was serious evidence that nationalism was getting traction in india.

The british stayed as long they felt strong enough and confidence in ICS and the indian armed forces.

But their intelligence assessment since early 1940's has been that their allies in ICS and IA are not reliable anymore to contain future rebellions ,due to increasing devotion to nationalism.

Wavell was regularly pleading with the british masters to "do something" again and again.

Churchill was a irrational imperialist and wanted to stay on. but some others in britain were not as stubborn .

By 1945, the new govt were already lookin at a plan to leave india.

[YoungIndia]

that they directly counselled the Indian Muslim League for putting up demands of a separate Muslim homeland for the Subcontinent's Muslims, while making it amply clear that the said Muslim state(it being obviously situated, atleast in parts, in the North Western India) would have to serve as an extended British and possibly American military base. What better instrument to put to use, for attaining such ends than religion?

Yes the great game was a known thing. however i think its being over stated here.

Neither Jinnah nor the Muslim League would otherwise cultivate such hopes in hell of a separate Muslim homeland within the Indian Subcontinent, hadn't they realised that the British would firmly back any such demand.

Its contraditicted by politics and history in the islamic world. caliphates and a sharia based state is like a drug in the asian part of the islamic world. even TODAY



Thats the primary reason jinnah could win so much support.

The ML was an elitist organisation and lost badly in the elections of 1937. at that time their claim to representing muslims was mosly unrealistic.

However jinnah was getting mass crowds and popularity by 1940.The ML grew phenomenally to millions of members in places like united provinces.

Yes the british did give him a seat at all the negotiations in a self serving way.Infact formed the ML in 1906.

but the support of muslims was won by jinnah and that cannot be counted as a british effort.

the british did play a role.but the real meat was delivered by jinnah winning support of many muslims in north india and getting crucial support from others like fazl ul haq/suhrawadday in bengal and hayat khan in punjab.

Neither Jinnah nor the Muslim League would otherwise cultivate such hopes in hell of a separate Muslim homeland within the Indian Subcontinent.

Direct actions day was their initiative. Other riots throughout north india. They brought down the punjab govt.

Even if congress solely headed the govt, they would have find it very tough to deal with huge mobs of the pakistan movement

It is also very prudent to understand that the occupation of Gilgit, Skardu and the Northern Areas by the PA in 1948

By the rebellion of gilgit scouts under the command of william brown .The governor designate had warned against two british officers-brown and his deputy mathieson. The state pm kak did not act on it.that basically proved fatal.

His widow Margaret received the Sitara-i-Pakistan medal in Islamabad from the hands of President Leghari on Pakistan Day, 23 March 1994.

[cataphract]

Oracle,

Unlike whatever the political masters of both India and Pakistan would want everybody to believe, the creation of Pakistan was partly because of the British assessment of the Soviet's expansionist designs and partly because Nehru and the INC's trust on that British assessment and the associated fear of another imperial colonization and partly because of their reluctance to play ball with their retreating masters.

The British knew it as early as by the middle of WWII, that they would have to grant India independence and leave after the war concludes. However, as soon as Berlin fell to the Red Army and the Soviet's started mopping one area after another, the way the mopped-up Manchuria within weeks after the vanquishing of the AXIS powers, the strategic bells at London started ringing Big Time, leading to Churchill putting up demands of British military bases in North Western India post independence to contain and monitor the Red Army. Such was the British paranoia about a definite Soviet thrust towards the Arabian Sea, that when the INC(more particularly Patel) firmly rejected such demands of military bases in India post independence, that they directly counselled the Indian Muslim League for putting up demands of a separate Muslim homeland for the Subcontinent's Muslims, while making it amply clear that the said Muslim state(it being obviously situated, atleast in parts, in the North Western India) would have to serve as an extended British and possibly American military base. What better instrument to put to use, for attaining such ends than religion? Neither Jinnah nor the Muslim League would otherwise cultivate such hopes in hell of a separate Muslim homeland within the Indian Subcontinent, hadn't they realised that the British would firmly back any such demand.

It is also very prudent to understand that the occupation of Gilgit, Skardu and the Northern Areas by the PA in 1948(still commanded by British Generals), was more of a British/American strategic design than a Pakistani one, even though not directly aimed at harming India but rather to hold the perceived Soviet advance.

And coming to the bolded part - Well, most know this, even if people won't admit. Whether it is the Indians and Pakistanis, British or to that effect the Americans.

Sir,
This is a fascinating and new POV for me. Do you have any sources to support your narrative? I would like to read up.

[Squirrel]

Chahbahar is not going to be a game changer for any country in this situation any time soon. The plan calls for 2 berths to be developed and operated by the Indians. This looks like Iran using India as a testing bed for their own proof of concept if they were to finally develop the port, not just two berths. The rail system here is the key for Iran, that's the piece needed to put this whole thing together.

[Deltacamelately]

Sir,
This is a fascinating and new POV for me. Do you have any sources to support your narrative? I would like to read up.

Cataphract,

None and no inclination to support. However, some people still talk and there's a lot you can find in the open source.

[Deltacamelately]

Also, that Pakistani gentlemen residing in your country talks on similar lines, same that many here privately admit.

[Officer of Engineers]

Colonel, is the "Russian Desire for a Warm Water Port" still an Indian military contingency?

[Deltacamelately]

Colonel, is the "Russian Desire for a Warm Water Port" still an Indian military contingency?

Sir,

Not any more. Also, the Russians have no longer the teeth and claw for such a narrative.

[cataphract]

Also, that Pakistani gentlemen residing in your country talks on similar lines, same that many here privately admit.

Which Pakistani gentlemen??

[Firestorm]

Which Pakistani gentlemen??

I believe Col. Delta is talking about Tarek Fatah