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Baltics undefended?
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Should work well.East Europe can easily detter a Russian agression.Keep in mind we're talking of a USA Bde spread over 5 countries,plus a few AD batteries.
Also,keep in mind that Russia will not challenge NATO alone.As for China doing it alone,maybe is possible.But they will still like Russian support and a diversionary effort.
Putting pressure on Russia in EE helps indirectly the US in Asia.And the cost benefit ratio is very favourable to US.
As fo the idea that the Baltics are indefensible,it is good hoopla in the budgetary battle.We have seen what the Russian army cannot do in Ukraine.
I am not saying the current dispositions are great.Many things can and will be improved.But that is a far cry from the Baltics being certain victims of the Russians.Those who know don't speak
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Originally posted by gunnut View PostSo...how's that "pivot to Asia" turning out for us?
To say nothing of the catastrophic damage to Russia's economy. The sanctions would stretch from here to the moon.
And I wouldn't count on a "Little Green Men" strategy working in the Baltics either.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by TopHatter View PostRussia knows that violating NATO borders would bring a significant portion of the most technologically-advanced militaries (many of them nuclear-armed) in the world down on it's head.
To say nothing of the catastrophic damage to Russia's economy. The sanctions would stretch from here to the moon.
And I wouldn't count on a "Little Green Men" strategy working in the Baltics either."Draft beer, not people."
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Originally posted by Red Team View PostAnd despite what many Putinites might give the impression of, Russians as a whole also generally would rather not have another gigantic land war in Europe.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by TopHatter View PostAgreed. Putin is taking on exactly as much as he knows he can get away with. (for the most part)sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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Originally posted by Bigfella View PostIts noticeable that the ramping up of activity in Syria has only come as Ukraine has gone quiet.
The Baltics are basically indefensible due to the 'Suwałki gap' problem - that is the narrow stretch of border between Poland and Lithuania with Kaliningrad on the north western side and Belarus on the southern and eastern side. To defend the Baltics you either have bash through Kaliningrad (which means war with Russia) or Belarus (which may also involve war with Russia) - or both of course. Otherwise the first thing they do is close the 'Suwałki gap' prior to any Latvian or Estonian 'little green men' or if we seek to send support following the little green men maskirovka. The key to maintaining the Baltic countries is to 'win' (by persuasive and if necessary financial/gas incentive means) Belarus to 'our side'. Everyone in this part of the world understands this and is eager to 'do a deal' with the tyrant of Belarus that would also encourage him along the reform path. Only Obama can spout rhetoric at a military problem and hope to win from half a world away.
Interestingly Belarus has issued a new military doctrine apparently (http://belarusdigest.com/story/new-b...CPmkLc.twitter) which seeks to deter threats from the west and the east, clearly Lukashenka intends to stay in power if possible. My solution would be to guarantee him for a short period of time on condition of reform and coming over to our side. Colleagues and friends who have visited or are in Belarus now report many officials would be open to this if certain conditions were met, notably no retrospective prosecutions in any new regime etc. I would say we have a chance in Belarus and should take it and so solve the Baltic defence problem, though even winning Belarus peacefully may not avoid the Muscovite 'little green men' and 'separatists'.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostIt hasn't "gone quiet" it is just less mentioned in the reports you appear to read. Just yesterday El Chocky aka Poroshenko said the risk of all out war with Russia is higher than ever.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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The problem is NATO's Eastern borders are only sustainable with US defense commitments. Again, I bring up this point again and again, but everything we've seen in the past 10 years suggests European unity is greatly overrated and Europe will fall apart. The US defense commitment is not sustainable and we are eventually going home.
It won't happen now, it won't happen tomorrow, it probably won't happen in 5 years, but eventually Russia is coming for the Eastern European states and France is going to shrug.
My uneducated guess is that if Russia suffers humiliating defeats TODAY in Syria and Ukraine, that won't happen. A Russia that gets its butt whooped by a bunch of angry Arabs and unruly Ukrainians will NEVER take an aggressive military posture against a Baltic nation and run the risk of yet another humiliating defeat.
EDIT: I should add that's out of a sense for US security, not European security. I don't want my kids heading into a world where Western Civilization suffers humiliation at the hands of some dipshit backwater nation we were supposed to have been finished with. Not a good signal to our other Civilization enemies, whoever they are in 2045.Last edited by GVChamp; 05 Feb 16,, 01:53."The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck
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Originally posted by GVChamp View PostThe problem is NATO's Eastern borders are only sustainable with US defense commitments. Again, I bring up this point again and again, but everything we've seen in the past 10 years suggests European unity is greatly overrated and Europe will fall apart. The US defense commitment is not sustainable and we are eventually going home.
Originally posted by GVChamp View PostIt won't happen now, it won't happen tomorrow, it probably won't happen in 5 years, but eventually Russia is coming for the Eastern European states and France is going to shrug.Chimo
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You have to go pretty far back for Sweden and Poland to have a consistent upper hand. Essentially before modern Russia (Peter the Great).
Eventually Russia is going to be the perennial red-headed step child...but it should be today, and the Poland/Sweden of today should be the European Union."The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck
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Absent nukes, the Poles are more than capable of repelling any Russian thrust and their defences have not been reduced. For the foreseeable future, for Russia to conquer Poland, it would have to be a do-or-die situation for Moscow. Yes, Moscow can take Poland but it would be a Phyric victory.Chimo
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Originally posted by GVChamp View PostYou have to go pretty far back for Sweden and Poland to have a consistent upper hand. Essentially before modern Russia (Peter the Great).
Eventually Russia is going to be the perennial red-headed step child...but it should be today, and the Poland/Sweden of today should be the European Union.
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