Nordic nations declare Russia a threat to Europe

[Blademaster]

I...I can't believe I have to break this down and explain it. And to a lawyer no less.

You're proclaiming total innocence for Batista and claiming I put words in his mouth. Except that, to anybody with a shred of common sense, what Batista said was (yet another) logical fallacy.

You are presuming that your sense of what constitutes as common sense is commonly shared by other people. That is a logical fallacy right there.

Hardly a simple question...e.g. a request for information. Batista uses, what is called in common law, a Leading Question. He presupposes guilt for the US ("as usual") forcing ("dictating") itself on Europe.


Similar to asking my neighbor "Are you still beating your wife?"

And yet, he leaves a way out where the responder can say what he want to say. By the way, you got the concept of leading question wrong. It was not a yes and no question while yours was and did not allow the responder to make an alternative statement.

Want an example of a leading question? Look no further than below. You just provided one no less.

Once again, I have to ask: Did you really expect anybody to buy your line of bullshit?

Do you really expect me or anybody else to answer your line of bullshit?

[Blademaster]

The post from Batista was clear of where he wanted to go with that. It's one thing to criticize US policies, and another to constantly spout rubbish.

Really?? You judge yourself as qualified to make that statement? One could be said the same about you when it come to India. Most of what you post about India are pretty much rubbish. I have a hard time believing that you ever lived in India.

I see you've already been hit with (in the words of another poster) shit you never said and crap that Blade doesn't understand anyway.

Then you have selectively read some of TopHatter's posts because he criticized others for being too defensive about their own countries when he is doing the same. I am just needling him on that when it comes to people criticizing US actions or policies since he so often likes to come in charging with his "Tu quo que" bullshit. He can't stand having US being brought to the same standard as he expects of other countries and when other people point out the duplicity of US's actions, he comes right in with his "tu quo que" crap or some other crap designed to move the goal posts.

When others do the same as Tophatter does, Tophatter calls them out and tell them that they're trying to drive the conversation from the topic at hand instead of debating. If he felt that what Batista implied was so wrong, instead of making statements about BS and logical fallacies and reductio ad absurdum, he should have stated that US has never forced others or dictate others to its terms and ask Batista to come up with examples. But he goes ahead and accuses him of trolling and shutting that conversation down and turning it to something else. If somebody else tried that on a topic not related to the US, Tophatter would have called him out and put the conversation back to where it was.

Oh wait, I forgot... You have attached yourself as Tophatter's cheerleader as part of your "sucking up to westerners" mentality. Must explain all the likes you have been giving him so far.

[Blademaster]

To grossly simplify it, I think Hitesh is all in favour of letting the sand pit bully tell the others who they may or may not play with, because the rich kid who has that cool die cast bulldozer won't let him play with it.

I think that's a question? This is getting confusing, as usual.

Wow, a stunning display of logic and cognitive reasoning right there. I think you should teach a class on logical argument.



.... in case you miss it, that was entirely pure sarcasm.

[tbm3fan]

Still doesn't make it a statement and we are not in a battlefield.

Oh, my...

[Parihaka]

“Don’t bother to examine a folly, ask only what it accomplishes.”

[Oracle]

Really?? You judge yourself as qualified to make that statement?

Unlike you I don't jump into debates to judge, I analyse and argue.

One could be said the same about you when it come to India. Most of what you post about India are pretty much rubbish. I have a hard time believing that you ever lived in India.

Most of whatever you post is rubbish. Like for e.g., the factory in India employing 200 people, and when asked for the TIN #, you ran away from that argument. But I didn't take it to heart, you're inconsequential in my scheme of things.

Then you have selectively read some of TopHatter's posts because he criticized others for being too defensive about their own countries when he is doing the same. I am just needling him on that when it comes to people criticizing US actions or policies since he so often likes to come in charging with his "Tu quo que" bullshit. He can't stand having US being brought to the same standard as he expects of other countries and when other people point out the duplicity of US's actions, he comes right in with his "tu quo que" crap or some other crap designed to move the goal posts.

Why then has TH never questioned me when I criticized US policies or their administration? Why hasn't anybody criticized me for criticizing US? Recently as far as the US selling a billion dollars arms to Pakistan.

And tell me, Batista asked for your services? You have a habit of jumping into threads, slandering the staff and hijacking it. Batista couldn't explain his stand when called out by TH. If he could, why hasn't he issued any statement so far? Guess what, duplicity. Everyone in here can see through Batista's statement, but you. Why? Because you have taken the responsibility of defending everything and any poster whose line of thinking matches yours. All from India. So spare me the lecture about TH.

When others do the same as Tophatter does, Tophatter calls them out and tell them that they're trying to drive the conversation from the topic at hand instead of debating. If he felt that what Batista implied was so wrong, instead of making statements about BS and logical fallacies and reductio ad absurdum, he should have stated that US has never forced others or dictate others to its terms and ask Batista to come up with examples.

Batista's post was self-explanatory, Mr. Lawyer. As I said everyone can see through, but you.

But he goes ahead and accuses him of trolling and shutting that conversation down and turning it to something else. If somebody else tried that on a topic not related to the US, Tophatter would have called him out and put the conversation back to where it was.

The thumb-rule is one does not question the Staff. PM's his/her grievances to them and gets it sorted out without an open slug-fest. But I guess that doesn't apply to you since you just bought a 2 bedroom house, you're here in WAB longer than most, you have a factory in India employing 200 people (request for TIN # hasn't been reciprocated though) and a host of other reasons. Not only that, you're super special too.

Oh wait, I forgot... You have attached yourself as Tophatter's cheerleader as part of your "sucking up to westerners" mentality. Must explain all the likes you have been giving him so far.

Says the guy who makes his living out of US. Talk about double standards. And what about the likes you dished out to extremist minded Modi fans. They weren't likes? Lipsticks?

[Andrey Egorov]

Baltic states are scared of today Russia exactly as they should be.
Though I can't point on any positive outcome, internal or international, of a military action Putin may perform against them, and Putin is the man of immediate outcome.
Invading Georgia was logical in a way - Osetian regime needed a hand. Just as logical was annexation of Crimea, Sevastopol is crucial for Russian national self-determination (Kiev and Odessa also are by the way). Intervention in Ukraine started by amateur activity was blamed on him immediately, and being a bully raised among bullies he had to support it or lose his face. Easy choice.

There is nothing logical in bombing Copenhagen. It will gain no points of domestic viewers and will be seen as clear aggression by anybody. We are living in the past here, and there are no unpaid historical debts on Baltics. It will also ruin everything he tried to build in his life for his children and friends.

Here's an example of russian thinking: there are three subjects of real politik in the world - Russia, US and China. Everyone else are mere objects. So in case of Denmark it's Washington obkom speaking through Danish mouth.
Paradoxically, this means average Russian sees average Dane as a friend, it's US that interferes in a friendship, they alone are enemy.

All this being said, Putin is aging and obscure. No one knows what happens in his head, so be scared of him. I am.

[Officer of Engineers]

Still doesn't make it a statement and we are not in a battlefield.

Hitesh, stop confusing the issue. The boy is anti-American and was called out. He's not even willing to defend himself.

[TopHatter]

You are presuming that your sense of what constitutes as common sense is commonly shared by other people. That is a logical fallacy right there.

And the thread history has proven me correct. But you'd rather cut your own throat than admit that.

And yet, he leaves a way out where the responder can say what he want to say. By the way, you got the concept of leading question wrong. It was not a yes and no question while yours was and did not allow the responder to make an alternative statement.

Leading question, suggestive question, presumptuous question...it was anything but the simple request for information that you're claiming it is.

Do you really expect me or anybody else to answer your line of bullshit?

You already have, haven't you.

He can't stand having US being brought to the same standard as he expects of other countries and when other people point out the duplicity of US's actions, he comes right in with his "tu quo que" crap or some other crap designed to move the goal posts.

In your dreams. I've repeatedly stated that I don't mind criticism of the United States. I'm an American: The entire freaking world criticizes us, even if only as a spectator sport. Getting bent out of shape every time somebody busted on the U.S. would be a 24/7 occupation.

If he felt that what Batista implied was so wrong, instead of making statements about BS and logical fallacies and reductio ad absurdum, he should have stated that US has never forced others or dictate others to its terms and ask Batista to come up with examples.

I know who and what I'm dealing with. Batista isn't looking for honest debate. He's a troll and nothing but. You'll notice, as OoE already pointed out, that he hasn't returned to the thread even once.

But he goes ahead and accuses him of trolling and shutting that conversation down and turning it to something else.

And who, other than you, thinks that he wasn't trolling? Nobody. Not a single person other than you has bothered to defend him. So apparently I'm not the only one imagining things.

[TopHatter]

Getting back to the original topic...Andrey made a great summation of things. A few follow-up questions:

There is nothing logical in bombing Copenhagen. It will gain no points of domestic viewers and will be seen as clear aggression by anybody. We are living in the past here, and there are no unpaid historical debts on Baltics. It will also ruin everything he tried to build in his life for his children and friends.

Andrey, what do you see as Putin's objective regarding the current Russian air force activities directed at the Baltic and Nordic nations? Is this merely a response to increased NATO air activity or is he sending a message to, for example, Sweden, warning them to know their place?

All this being said, Putin is aging and obscure. No one knows what happens in his head, so be scared of him. I am.

Do you believe Putin is capable of ordering covert or overt military action against the Baltics or the Nordic nations? Would the senior Russian military leadership cheerfully go along with Putin's orders to do so?

[Andrey Egorov]

TopHatter, my knowlege of modern Russian Army is mostly general outside certain area.
First of all, Putin is praised by the army for increasing military spendings after long hiatus of 90's and Anatoliy Serdyukov's weak attempt to seize its massive corruption. The attempt was weak because of both his own flaws and strong GenShtab pressure on Putin. What little he had achieved was then showered with money.
Birds fly again, ships are being built, tanks roll. All is back, though in much lesser scale than what USSR had. But still "we're going to place them all in line".
Secondary, neither EU, nor NATO are not regarded as independent. EU is seen as the extension of Germany, while NATO is the same for US military.

Andrey, what do you see as Putin's objective regarding the current Russian air force activities directed at the Baltic and Nordic nations? Is this merely a response to increased NATO air activity or is he sending a message to, for example, Sweden, warning them to know their place?

I see it as both bullying of weaker ones and provocation of the strong. VVS train, detect NATO reactions, show their power and bully for Putin at the same time. Consider it constant maneuvers.

Do you believe Putin is capable of ordering covert or overt military action against the Baltics or the Nordic nations? Would the senior Russian military leadership cheerfully go along with Putin's orders to do so?

Any confrontation that might lead to a war is absolutely against the interests of The Family (though no one surely knows if it still has any affect on Putin, I hope it still has). GenShtab also values their warm nest to make bold moves (actually they fear to make any moves, being scared by KGB provocations for too long).
Small diversions aimed to trigger alert will happen.

At the same time, huge part of middle-tier military is longing for war, the bigger the better. They haven't much to lose and their trigger fingers are itching. That's how whole DNR mess started.

[Batista]

What is rather extraordinary to me is that a staunchly non-aligned & neutral country like Sweden, or a generally Russia-friendly nation like Finland, would issue such a strongly-worded statement.

Russia and Finland had a bloody history to share.US muscle flexing against Russia needs some local support for sure.

Finland–Russia relations

Contemporary issues include problems with border controls causing persistent truck queues at the border, airspace violations and pollution of the Baltic Sea by Russia, and Russian duties on exported wood to Finland's pulp and paper industry.

Hitesh, stop confusing the issue. The boy is anti-American and was called out. He's not even willing to defend himself.

Sure... I am anti-american just because I have some critical comments just like I do for my own country.

And not everyone is privileged enough to sit on internet all day night and start commenting at the drop of hat posting hundreds of comments each day.

[Andrey Egorov]

Russia and Finland had a bloody history to share.

Sweet Jesus, that's hillarious. We also have bloody history with Sweden, Turkey, Japan, Germany, Romania, Austria, Germany, France, Poland and even Mongolia (did I forget anyone? sorry). Please go on making further assumptions

Yep, I did forget Great Britain and USA, again, sorry for that

[Oracle]

Sure... I am anti-american just because I have some critical comments just like I do for my own country.

No you don't. Your critical comments are reserved for Pak/Chinese/Western countries in the forum you're ever present. You not only post racist jibes, but very mean religious comments about Muslims and Christians. With glee you pounce and comment sadistically about 'Rape and Pedophilia culture of the Western world' and such shit. You even called OOE a chinaman. rock127, who are you fooling?

And not everyone is privileged enough to sit on internet all day night and start commenting at the drop of hat posting hundreds of comments each day.

Then don't be an idiot with your silly statements. You logged in here yesterday and today morning too. Even though I witnessed it, the server logs can prove it.

This is a great place to learn, either take it or argue it.

[TopHatter]

Russia and Finland had a bloody history to share.US muscle flexing against Russia needs some local support for sure.

Finland–Russia relations

Yes I can read the same Wikipedia articles that you can: "Relations with Russia are peaceful and friendly." but not without problems. Which is why I qualified my statement by saying "a generally Russia-friendly nation"

Sure... I am anti-american just because I have some critical comments just like I do for my own country.
And not everyone is privileged enough to sit on internet all day night and start commenting at the drop of hat posting hundreds of comments each day.

Nobody is saying you need to be sitting on the Internet all day and night composing posts. But as Oracle said, don't be an idiot with these silly statements.

You want to be critical of America? Be my guest. I Welcome It. However your idea of "critical" seems to be snide one-liners of little substance. That's not critical. That's trolling and flame baiting.