The smell of apartheid in Israel

[Genosaurer]

The issue I take when this topic comes up is that there is actual honest-to-goodness apartheid right next door in Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia against the exact same refugee populations and no one cares. I have no problem with people advocating for the rights of disenfranchised groups, if they're doing so in good faith, but the nonstop hand-wringing about the plight of Palestinians in Israel looks a little odd when it's accompanied by total silence on the worse systematic discrimination they suffer everywhere else in that same geographic neighborhood.

Because I have a low and suspicious mind, it makes me wonder.

[zraver]

One critical issue: they are technically still in a state of war, depending on who you ask.

The PA and Israel are not at war, Palestine and Israel are not at war.

Mihais, not they are not. No matter what you say, the Israelis see themselves and the Palestinians as different races and the discrimination based on that world view is illegal.

[Mihais]

Whatever,dude.Racism,anyway,is the most abused term today.Abused enough to be meaningless.I'd call what's going on there as nationalism,but who on earth cares about accuracy?

Now,how about you pick a gun and join the next war against Israel,to enforce whatever law you see fit.

[zraver]

The issue I take when this topic comes up is that there is actual honest-to-goodness apartheid right next door in Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia against the exact same refugee populations and no one cares. I have no problem with people advocating for the rights of disenfranchised groups, if they're doing so in good faith, but the nonstop hand-wringing about the plight of Palestinians in Israel looks a little odd when it's accompanied by total silence on the worse systematic discrimination they suffer everywhere else in that same geographic neighborhood.

Because I have a low and suspicious mind, it makes me wonder.

What apartheid in Jordan?

Mihais, that is a bankrupt argument. If Israel wants to order their own affairs despite treaties they freely signed, I wish they would do so without US money. So long as my money is being spent to prop them up and they continue to act contrary to the values I believe in I will complain.

[Officer of Engineers]

Mihais, that is a bankrupt argument. If Israel wants to order their own affairs despite treaties they freely signed, I wish they would do so without US money. So long as my money is being spent to prop them up and they continue to act contrary to the values I believe in I will complain.

It is an empty feel good treaty. What are the criteria for failure and what is the enforcement?

Both absolutely zero! It is a hippy treaty designed to feel good with zero achievement objevtives and zero enforcement procedures.

Hell, this piece of paper is worth as much as Smurf's toilet paper.

[Mihais]

Your complaints,Z,are worthless.Your actions might change a little wrt policies of your nation,but so far,AFAIK,you're busy sitting on your butt.
Back to the topic,you have used a term that is all but meaningless in general,doesn't apply to the particular situation and yet you call my argument bankrupt.Told ya before,I make collection of ''definitions'' of racism or racist actions.FYI,some folks believe Harry Potter(a movie I never saw) is racist.Mathematics are racist,because some ethnicities don't get them.Looking at somebody can be racism,while not looking at somebody can be racism as well.
You are of course free to compain and invoke whatever laws you wish.But since this can be used(and it is) to cease anything resembling freedom and normality,don't wonder if people resist your infringement in their day to day affairs.
If Jewish moms don't want Arab men near their kids or viceversa,it's their freedom of association.

[Genosaurer]

What apartheid in Jordan?

There are at this very moment hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, born in Jordan to parents born in Jordan, restricted to living in overcrowded UNWRA "refugee" camps, denied citizenship, ineligible to receive the majority of government services and forbidden most employment. No one really seems to care. There are no protests, no divestment campaigns, no boycotts, no tearful NPR specials, and no blistering comparisons to defunct South African regimes.

It's an interesting contrast, especially because Jordan is also a big recipient of US foreign aid.

I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but find it hard to avoid the conclusion that, at heart, it's not really about the Palestinians.

[zraver]

There are at this very moment hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, born in Jordan to parents born in Jordan, restricted to living in overcrowded UNWRA "refugee" camps, denied citizenship, ineligible to receive the majority of government services and forbidden most employment. No one really seems to care. There are no protests, no divestment campaigns, no boycotts, no tearful NPR specials, and no blistering comparisons to defunct South African regimes.

It's an interesting contrast, especially because Jordan is also a big recipient of US foreign aid.

I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but find it hard to avoid the conclusion that, at heart, it's not really about the Palestinians.

No, Palestinians living in Jordan are Jordanian citizens unless they fall under a very narrow category (former residents of the West Bank who moved to Jordan, done to keep Israel from revoking their right to live in the West Bank). 1.9 million Palestinians in Jordan, all but 168,000 are citizens, and only 338,000 live in UNRWA facilities. This is both more citizenship and lower UNRWA usage than anyone else including areas controlled by Israel.

[Genosaurer]

No, Palestinians living in Jordan are Jordanian citizens unless they fall under a very narrow category (former residents of the West Bank who moved to Jordan, done to keep Israel from revoking their right to live in the West Bank). 1.9 million Palestinians in Jordan, all but 168,000 are citizens, and only 338,000 live in UNRWA facilities. This is both more citizenship and lower UNRWA usage than anyone else including areas controlled by Israel.

Oh, only three hundred thousand living in permanent refugee camps, and only a hundred and fifty thousand denied citizenship? Well, I guess it's a non-issue then - really, they should be grateful.

[zraver]

Oh, only three hundred thousand living in permanent refugee camps, and only a hundred and fifty thousand denied citizenship? Well, I guess it's a non-issue then - really, they should be grateful.

Where some one choose to live as they (forlornly) wait to return to their or their families home/land in Israel) is not an indictment of the Jordanian government. Nor are they as you claimed- restricted. Of the Palestinians living in Jordan who are not Jordanian citizens, its because they are residents of the West Bank. So much for holding that open mind...