On a Shoestring, India Sends Orbiter to Mars on Its First Try

[Defcon5]

Col.

Why the negativity?

Yes, I understand that this is all old hat and that you have figured it all out before, but it is new and exciting for us. why not let us savour the moment? Yes, I understand that some of this juvenile chest thumping is bothersome, but you as the better man can ignore that.

There was so ZERO chest thumping on this thread. ZERO

[antimony]

There was so ZERO chest thumping on this thread. ZERO

This is not the only thread where this is being discussed.

[Officer of Engineers]

Col.

Why the negativity?

It is NOT A NEGATIVITY!

Your engineers achieved the IMPOSSIBLE! Putting together a Mars Mission within a 3 year time period.

BUT IT IS NOT SOMETHING REAL MARS EXPLORERS WANT TO DO!

This frankly is a wasted mission. Wait 5 years and your engineers can put together a real mission. Frankly, your lunar mission put this Mars mission to shame ... and all because of the rush.

Someone somewhere decided that India has to goto Mars no matter what. The no matter what is this Mickey Mouse mission. Frankly, India can do better. Frankly, India should do better. The US is mapping Mars. Why don't India map the Martian moons? Well within her capabilities.

It was a political decision and one that I found that none of your recognized. 3 years from decision to launch? Average Mars mission is 10 years. Yeah, tell me the decision cycle involved. Your engineers can do better, a lot better given 3 years. Why were they not given those 3 years?

[Firestorm]

Colonel, this mission was a gamble. Before they spent a lot of money and risked it on a Mars mission they had to be sure of themselves. They needed the confidence and more importantly, the experience. No Indian government was going to fund an expensive mission to Mars until they were convinced that the ISRO could do it. They'll find it easier to get funding now for a more extensive mission.

And we still don't know what the methane detector will turn up. The lunar probe found water. Maybe this one can find and measure methane. That would be a bonus.

[Officer of Engineers]

Colonel, this mission was a gamble.

It was NOT a gamble. That is the whole point. India relied on proven technologies with a proven mission parameters, The three years is the hint. India will launch a mission in 2013. Why? Why not wait until 2016? It is damned obvious no one India was thinking about Mars until 2010. At that point ... to meet the launch window, all you can do is the cheap stuff. It is not that Indian enginers cannot do better, it is because they were allowed to do better. The mission parameters was damned simple. Travel to Mars and signal back!

[Firestorm]

It was NOT a gamble. That is the whole point. India relied on proven technologies with a proven mission parameters, The three years is the hint. India will launch a mission in 2013. Why? Why not wait until 2016? It is damned obvious no one India was thinking about Mars until 2010. At that point ... to meet the launch window, all you can do is the cheap stuff. It is not that Indian enginers cannot do better, it is because they were allowed to do better. The mission parameters was damned simple. Travel to Mars and signal back!

It's not just the time. It is the money. They weren't going to get too much more than what they got. And with that kind of money, this mission was all that was possible. ISRO runs on a budget which is a small fraction of NASA's. They couldn't afford to spend any more time and money on the Mars mission. There's too many other more important things they are working on. Like making and launching the rest of India's navigation satellite cluster and perfecting the GSLV Mk.III launch vehicle. Once they do that, it'll be easier to launch heavy payloads to the moon and Mars as well.

[Defcon5]

This is not the only thread where this is being discussed.

Well deserved Chest Thumping, Just like the dailyfail writers and readers, there are many who cannot fathom that 'brown' Indian are surging ahead despite of the denials. Same people who believe that the Brits were all dandy in Indian for 200 years, when millions of people died and trillions worth of money stolen. No more.

[Officer of Engineers]

Oh for Pete sakes, are you young ones don't know why we are going to Mars? Why all our attention towards Mars? What all our efforts have been? Did you all not know that our VIKING experiments were deeply flawed? What is the point of Mars SURVEYOR?

It is not an American or a Russian ... or Chinese or Russian mission parameters.

NASA with their exploration of wars aims to answer and answer one question only. Are we the only living things in this entire universe. Mars will give us that answer one way or the other.

[Officer of Engineers]

Well deserved Chest Thumping, Just like the dailyfail writers and readers, there are many who cannot fathom that 'brown' Indian are surging ahead despite of the denials. Same people who believe that the Brits were all dandy in Indian for 200 years, when millions of people died and trillions worth of money stolen. No more.

And precisely you don't know why Mars is so important. You hate the British more than wanting to know that you are not alone.

[Firestorm]

NASA with their exploration of wars aims to answer and answer one question only. Are we the only living things in this entire universe. Mars will give us that answer one way or the other.

How? Even if we find no trace of life on Mars, that question remains unanswered. BTW, that's why they included the methane detector as one of the instruments in the extremely limited payload. Naturally occurring methane is produced by microbes. The non-microbial process of creating it requires water. So in either case...

[Officer of Engineers]

How? Even if we find no trace of life on Mars, that question remains unanswered.

Oh for pete sakes, part of finding what the right answer is learning what the wrong the answer is. I insert fail points in my constructions to test where I expect my failure to be. If it is befure or after my "guess", the I have to go back and redo my math?

BTW, that's why they included the methane detector as one of the instruments in the extremely limited payload. Naturally occurring methane is produced by microbes. The non-microbial process of creating it requires water. So in either case...

At the very least, you found a spot you want to come back to and test more.

[Defcon5]

And precisely you don't know why Mars is so important. You hate the British more than wanting to know that you are not alone.

Colonel,

You make no sense, Everyone who anybody in the space community and knows about the mission, says the Indians were very pragmatic and their mission objectives were needed and intelligent. They are all impressed. How the mission was created and its objectives, and above all the execution of it considering the difficulty of it and lack of resources of the Indians.

Not really, if I post the reality of Colonial rule in Americas, especially USA or that of by Brits in India, that thread will be locked and I will be warned. Not to mention for the time that thread will be open, I or whoever supports that motion will be attacked continuously and will be given answers which makes no sense, which will not be allowed to be countered. Its actually fine by me, This is a western forum, there is no fairness here, other than for the western perspective. We have similar places like that BR and DFI. Thats enough for me.

[Defcon5]

Maven is 65 Kgs, While MOM is 15 Kgs.

India can send 5 Mars missions ( Not really required because of GSLV Mark 3)... That is 75 Kilos, still it will cost only $375 million... Yes, No Frills nature of ISRO, is most definitely a plus point, and can be used as a Business advantage.

10.32 Million/per Kilogram for Maven
5 million/per Kilogram for MOM, which will definitely go down even more when launched by a Heavier and capable launcher as the GSLV mark 3

[Double Edge]

Someone somewhere decided that India has to goto Mars no matter what.

Success helps with future funding.

It was a political decision and one that I found that none of your recognized. 3 years from decision to launch? Average Mars mission is 10 years. Yeah, tell me the decision cycle involved. Your engineers can do better, a lot better given 3 years. Why were they not given those 3 years?

good, then its a confidence building exercise.

The no matter what is this Mickey Mouse mission.

shh, so long as the people think the scientists are capable the govt cannot refuse further funding.

They've been watching NASA closely and how funding comes with small projects with easily attainable goals than the bigger ones whose lack of success gets questioned by bean counters in Congress threatening the future of the whole program. Blame it on short term-ism and wall st.

Take the probe that landed on one of Saturns moon. i was thrilled to see it. But others were saying oh look a bunch of rocks, who okayed this project, why are we paying for it. That's the sort of response you don't want to get.

Frankly, India can do better. Frankly, India should do better. The US is mapping Mars. Why don't India map the Martian moons? Well within her capabilities.

With more funding, added confidence from earlier successes and luck hopefully we will.

On a Shoestring, India Sends Orbiter to Mars on Its First Try

Welcome back :)

[antimony]

It is NOT A NEGATIVITY!

Your engineers achieved the IMPOSSIBLE! Putting together a Mars Mission within a 3 year time period.

BUT IT IS NOT SOMETHING REAL MARS EXPLORERS WANT TO DO!

This frankly is a wasted mission. Wait 5 years and your engineers can put together a real mission. Frankly, your lunar mission put this Mars mission to shame ... and all because of the rush.

Someone somewhere decided that India has to goto Mars no matter what. The no matter what is this Mickey Mouse mission. Frankly, India can do better. Frankly, India should do better. The US is mapping Mars. Why don't India map the Martian moons? Well within her capabilities.

It was a political decision and one that I found that none of your recognized. 3 years from decision to launch? Average Mars mission is 10 years. Yeah, tell me the decision cycle involved. Your engineers can do better, a lot better given 3 years. Why were they not given those 3 years?

Believe it or not, we do realize the constraints from the "safe" nature of the mission, from the use of the well tested PSLV instead of the GSLV, which meant a smaller payload, lesser instruments etc. so that the 2013 launch window could be met. We get that. It was still an impressive feat for what is essentially a POC or pilot, which was accomplished with peanuts and change to spare.

By the way, it is refreshing to see criticism of why India could not do more, rather than why India did it when she could have solved poverty in 74 mil blah blah blah