Australia’s Biggest Terror Bust: Public Beheading allegedly planned by ISIS

[Samuels creek]

Because both are aimed at people who have already made up their minds and therefore aren't especially fussed about the facts & their correct context.

Unfortunate there is so many in this thread and country that don't recognize the mass tabloid speculation over this issue.

Scott Morrison's Anti-Muslim Strategy

THE opposition immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, urged the shadow cabinet to capitalise on the electorate's growing concerns about "Muslim immigration", "Muslims in Australia" and the "inability" of Muslim migrants to integrate.

Need more substance about why greenleft should be avoided, the above evidence is proof they're generally on the ball. Insunations don't do it for me.

[Bigfella]

Unfortunate there is so many in this thread and country that don't recognize the mass tabloid speculation over this issue.

Scott Morrison's Anti-Muslim Strategy



Need more substance about why greenleft should be avoided, the above evidence is proof they're generally on the ball. Insunations don't do it for me.

That last line would have a lot more force if:

1) You hadn't just insinuated that many* people on this thread (and indeed in Australia) are big old dummies who are just swallowing tabloid journalism - presumably the point of comparison is someone who reads Green Left Weekly; and

2) You hadn't reproduced a quote that insinuated that the government is running an anti-muslim campaign.

Your only issue with insinuation is when you disagree with the content.

As for Green-Left Weekly, the re-badging of a bunch of broken down old Trots, their failed ideology & their re-hashed 60s critiques as 'Green' doesn't make it any more credible as a news source. In the interests of full disclosure I should say that I have spent more than half my adult life hanging around with broken down old Trots & their fellow travellers. Lovely folk, great company, fun to talk with during park cricket matches, but terminally wrong about the world and still unable to accept that on one of the great issues of the C20th they were as wrong as people could be. Not worth the time it takes to read.

*I have to say that you have employed a definition of 'many' that is new to me. Other than yourself there are only 10 contributors on this thread & not all have ventured an opinion on the allegations at hand. Not exactly 'many'. Rather than use weasel words to criticize people in the broad, be specific. Who got what wrong? We're all big boys and girls here. You might find that some of us (see, I knew that 'qualifiers and their correct usage' course I took at Uni would pay off) are actually quite well informed despite our lack of acquaintance with the latest incarnation of Revolutionary Socialism in Australia.

[Louis]

Unfortunate there is so many in this thread and country that don't recognize the mass tabloid speculation over this issue.

Scott Morrison's Anti-Muslim Strategy



Need more substance about why greenleft should be avoided, the above evidence is proof they're generally on the ball. Insunations don't do it for me.

I love your website mate. It has a lovely article about the vicious old rozzers and how they shot that young chap outside a cop shop in breach of their duty of care isn't it terrible police state etc....
It rather fails to mention the fact that he stabbed two fascist oppressors before he got shot. A rather material point don't you think? I mean I'm just a reactionary old criminal defence lawyer so I can be relied upon to support police brutality all day, but a cynic might think there was a bit of a slant there. And like the big fella I've spent most of my life around lefty trots- they're my family for one. Nice bunch but not much chop at reality.

[Bigfella]

I love your website mate. It has a lovely article about the vicious old rozzers and how they shot that young chap outside a cop shop in breach of their duty of care isn't it terrible police state etc....
It rather fails to mention the fact that he stabbed two fascist oppressors before he got shot. A rather material point don't you think? I mean I'm just a reactionary old criminal defence lawyer so I can be relied upon to support police brutality all day, but a cynic might think there was a bit of a slant there. And like the big fella I've spent most of my life around lefty trots- they're my family for one. Nice bunch but not much chop at reality.

No doubt the police have stood over all those civilian witnesses too. No possibility that the guy actually posed a serious threat to the life of the guy he was stabbing when he was shot. Glad the Trots are all over this, lest us helpless punters miss the truth of what happened.

[Louis]

'Twas but a scratch.

Oh that's right:

An AFP officer is in a serious but stable condition in a hospital, authorities said, adding that a Victoria state police official suffered less serious injuries and was in stable condition.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that said representative of fascist capitalism was chibbed prior to said innocent snowflake being brutally executed by the forces of counter revolutionary oppression.

[Bigfella]

'Twas but a scratch.

Oh that's right:

An AFP officer is in a serious but stable condition in a hospital, authorities said, adding that a Victoria state police official suffered less serious injuries and was in stable condition.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that said representative of fascist capitalism was chibbed prior to said innocent snowflake being brutally executed by the forces of counter revolutionary oppression.

As I stated at the outset, I'm no fan of past VicPol behaviours when it comes to use of lethal force (Monash knows about that period), but it is difficult to see a reasonable way to avoid this. If you stab an officer then jump on his mate & try to kill him I think you have used up your 'presumption of innocence' cards. I would have preferred that the kid wasn't killed, but he didn't give the police much choice but to shoot. Fascists!

[Monash]

Unfortunate there is so many in this thread and country that don't recognize the mass tabloid speculation over this issue.

Errr.. by my count there are what? - 5 people who have contributed to this thread, including you. Of which number exactly none have supported a 'Muslims are bad' line of argument. So what exacly is your point?

Need more substance about why greenleft should be avoided, the above evidence is proof they're generally on the ball. Insunations don't do it for me.

They should be avoided for exactly the same reason that the far right should be avoided i.e. they represent the opposing 'idiot fringes' of the political/ideological bell curve. One side would have every Muslim (see Arabic looking person) in the country deported while the other sees any acts committed in support of terrorism as mislabeled attempts at legitimate protest. (Unless of course they are committed as by Israel or the US and it's western cronies, in which case they are always acts of terrorism, genocide or war.)

[Louis]

I'm probably derailing this now, but in my profession, in this corner of the world, 70s/80s Aussie police are astonishing for the sheer level of their corruption and brutality. I mean Roger Rogerson.... I've met a few associates of the Mr Asia syndicate and they've told me things. Doesn't detract from the message that starting a gunfight with a knife goes badly most times.

[Monash]

Arguably no more corrupt that any other Western Police force at the time. As for Roger, well he's in just a tad of bother right at the moment. Karma is a bitch.

[Louis]

Arguably no more corrupt that any other Western Police force at the time. As for Roger, well he's in just a tad of bother right at the moment. Karma is a bitch.

If you would allow me to be formal sir, and with the greatest of respect, I am unaware of any real and systemic corruption in the New Zealand police force having ever been proved. I am certainly unaware of any New Zealand detective who was stooped to the level of Roger the Dodger. I mean no disrespect, and it is an issue for me of professional interest, not petty nationalism. But the Australian police were rotten as all fuck in that period.

[Chunder]

I'm probably derailing this now, but in my profession, in this corner of the world, 70s/80s Aussie police are astonishing for the sheer level of their corruption and brutality. I mean Roger Rogerson.... I've met a few associates of the Mr Asia syndicate and they've told me things. Doesn't detract from the message that starting a gunfight with a knife goes badly most times.

You ever looked into this? Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A few necked themselves as a result.

[Monash]

If you would allow me to be formal sir, and with the greatest of respect, I am unaware of any real and systemic corruption in the New Zealand police force having ever been proved. I am certainly unaware of any New Zealand detective who was stooped to the level of Roger the Dodger. I mean no disrespect, and it is an issue for me of professional interest, not petty nationalism. But the Australian police were rotten as all fuck in that period.

Based on what objective, independently verifiable evidence?

[Louis]

You ever looked into this? Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A few necked themselves as a result.

Yes indeed. Pretty bloody embarrassing, swearing on oath that as a detective you've never taken a bribe, and then having to watch a video of yourself taking a bribe. While you're giving evidence at a royal commission of inquiry into police corruption.

[Monash]

Yes indeed. Pretty bloody embarrassing, swearing on oath that as a detective you've never taken a bribe, and then having to watch a video of yourself taking a bribe. While you're giving evidence at a royal commission of inquiry into police corruption.

We need to start another thread to continue this discussion. But I repeat, objective facts and figures not isolated examples. For example there were aprox, 13,000 servicing Police officers in NSW in 1995/96 i.e. at the time of Commission vs how many subject to official findings or who resigned prior to the establishment of such what 1-200? Next compare these statistics to other official investigations into Police corruption in other jurisdictions including those in the U.S., Canada and Europe about the same time.

Do that and you have an argument. Anything else is just piss and wind.

And no I am not condoning or excusing the level of corruption revealed by the NSW Royal Commission, NSWPOL was and is not my service but like every other serving officer (NSW or other) I got covered in the splash-back at the time.

[Louis]

We need to start another thread to continue this discussion. But I repeat, objective facts and figures not isolated examples. For example there were aprox, 13,000 servicing Police officers in NSW in 1995/96 i.e. at the time of Commission vs how many subject to official findings or who resigned prior to the establishment of such what 1-200? Next compare these statistics to other official investigations into Police corruption in other jurisdictions including those in the U.S., Canada and Europe about the same time.

Do that and you have an argument. Anything else is just piss and wind.

And no I am not condoning or excusing the level of corruption revealed by the NSW Royal Commission, NSWPOL was and is not my service but like every other serving officer (NSW or other) I got covered in the splash-back at the time.

I'm sorry mate. I really meant it when I said it wasn't personal. I didn't know you were in the job and I bet a ton of you got deliveries of shit you didn't deserve. It was a particular time and place, and the only reason I discussed it was to reinforce the point that the police didn't do anything wrong shooting that little bugger on this occasion. Even an inveterate critic agrees!