India-US partnership: $1 trillion by 2030?

[antimony]

Oh India is going full steam with nuclear power plants. They have no choice. Their coal based power systems are a big mess and it is becoming apparent that coal fired plants will be unsustainable for India. We will just be going for better designs.

I don't see any news plants coming up. I would bet more on renewables (like solar n Gujarat and Rajasthan) than on nuclear energy in India.

[antimony]

Hyde Act makes sure that we are not really treated like NWS, but some where in the middle, in between Non Nuclear state and a Nuclear state. Which is not exactly what the USA promised or stated with the 123 agreement, the Hyde Act was passed to impose restrictions on 123 agreement, a move they did after we signed the dotted line, It is from there, everything went down hill. Nuclear Liability Law was in a way response to Hyde Act, the Narrative should not be allowed to be changed by the Americans to suit their view point

Article 2 of the 123 agreement maintains that countries will implement cooperation “in accordance with its… national laws.” The treaty itself does not mention tests anywhere but anyone will knowledge of the US Atomic Energy Act would know that nuclear trade will end if India conducted any tests. That is "National Law" for you.

This was/ should have been known when we signed the treaty.

[Blademaster]

Article 2 of the 123 agreement maintains that countries will implement cooperation “in accordance with its… national laws.” The treaty itself does not mention tests anywhere but anyone will knowledge of the US Atomic Energy Act would know that nuclear trade will end if India conducted any tests. That is "National Law" for you.

This was/ should have been known when we signed the treaty.

Nuclear trade with US will end if there is another nuke test and as of right now, there is little nuke trade btw India and US due to the nuclear liability law so there is little to worry about.

[antimony]

Nuclear trade with US will end if there is another nuke test and as of right now, there is little nuke trade btw India and US due to the nuclear liability law so there is little to worry about.

Little to worry about? At least there is a possibility that if we ease the process of setting up nuke plant there might be some folks, if not from India, then at least from some other country. Another nuke test would sink that boat too, wouldn't you say?

Also where are those nuke plants that you said India is going full steam with?

[Blademaster]

Little to worry about? At least there is a possibility that if we ease the process of setting up nuke plant there might be some folks, if not from India, then at least from some other country. Another nuke test would sink that boat too, wouldn't you say?

Also where are those nuke plants that you said India is going full steam with?

So far we have only seen contracts with Russia and France and little with US. That will not change. And there will be more contracts with France and Russia. India is going full steam with nuclear plants in the sense that they are implementing plans to obtain the necessary land and permits.

See the list for plants already under construction or with plans of being constructed. Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide

And Modi wants to go full steam with nuclear power. http://www.livemint.com/Politics/vqS...ch-Centre.html

[antimony]

So far we have only seen contracts with Russia and France and little with US. That will not change. And there will be more contracts with France and Russia. India is going full steam with nuclear plants in the sense that they are implementing plans to obtain the necessary land and permits.

See the list for plants already under construction or with plans of being constructed. Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide

And Modi wants to go full steam with nuclear power. PM Narendra Modi wants nuclear power capacity to be tripled - Livemint

The data is somewhat outdated and misleading. There are currently 4 projects undergoing within some of which there are more than 1 units, and I think they have been going for some time.

Full steam with nuclear plants: Are these for new plants apart from the ones already under constructions? Where are you getting these info? I see an intent (which is commendable) but I don't see any real specifics.

[commander]

The data is somewhat outdated and misleading. There are currently 4 projects undergoing within some of which there are more than 1 units, and I think they have been going for some time.

Full steam with nuclear plants: Are these for new plants apart from the ones already under constructions? Where are you getting these info? I see an intent (which is commendable) but I don't see any real specifics.

in Kudankulam a new plant with Russian collaboration is already functional. Talks to increase it to 12 is already on the books. They are planning to make it the biggest plan in SE Asia.

[Double Edge]

This test or not test thing has been bugging me for a bit and i found out that after the nuke tests we imposed a moratorium on ourselves. So its not the nuke deal that stops us from testing. The self-imposed moratorium was in place soon after as early as '98.

Vajpayee's idea was defiance followed with reconciliation. Then Clinton comes over in less than two years starting the road to the nuke deal. At that time it was sign the CTBT and you get acceptance but that plan went no where.

As to whether to test or what purpose it serves that is a question i cannot answer as yet. Entirely dependent on what the surrounding situation is. if india perceives there is a conspiracy working against her then that could be a pretext as we saw in '74 & '98.

[Double Edge]

Apparently the US policy wonks feel that the entire relationship crashed and burned when India passed the Nuclear Liability Law, because the US establishment felt betrayed, that they had spent so much capital on getting this done and then India apparently doused that effort with this bill.

I thought the bill was controversial about exactly the opposite reason, that we have left too many loopholes in this bill for it to be strong enough.

There is a another angle. We don't have a nuke agreement with Japan.

Toshiba owns westinghouse and GE works with Hitachi. So for these two US companies to sell India reactors the Japanese have to be on board.

[zraver]

I think you guys are over estimating China's ability to remain a global factory. wages are rising, the population is aging and by 2030's China's factories will be old. Long term India with a young and growing population is well poised to be the next China as global manufacturing looks for the next place to go. granted that will only give you 30-50 or so years and then they will move again.

[Double Edge]

2030 ? that gives us another 15 years more to get our house in order

Deal

[Double Edge]

They committed to a new mantra for the relationship, “Chalein Saath Saath: Forward Together We Go.”


Obama - Modi joint statement | White house | Sept 30 2014

This important bit was missing in this thread. outlines what the two countries want to do. The groundwork has been laid now to see the follow through.

Noting that two-way trade has increased fivefold since 2001 to nearly $100 billion, President Obama and Prime Minister Modi committed to facilitate the actions necessary to increase trade another fivefold.

$100 billion --> half a trillion

In order to raise investment by institutional investors and corporate entities, the leaders pledged to establish an Indo-U.S. Investment Initiative led by the Ministry of Finance and the Department of Treasury, with special focus on capital market development and financing of infrastructure. They pledged to establish an Infrastructure Collaboration Platform convened by the Ministry of Finance and the Department of Commerce to enhance participation of U.S. companies in infrastructure projects in India.

In this context, the U.S. government welcomes India's offer for U.S. industry to be the lead partner in developing smart cities in Ajmer (Rajasthan), Vishakhapatnam (Andhra Pradesh) and Allahabad (Uttar Pradesh). The Prime Minister will welcome two trade missions in 2015 focused on meeting India’s infrastructure needs with U.S. technology and services.

Where will we see it ? those three cities mentioned above.

The President and Prime Minister underlined the important contribution that U.S. locomotive technology, equipment to monitor rail system assets, and U.S. best practices can play in modernizing India’s vast railway network, including accessing programs of U.S. Trade and Development Agency in this work.

Upgrading the rail network

The two leaders committed to hold public-private discussions in early 2015 under the Commercial Dialogue on new areas of cooperation, including innovation in advanced manufacturing. In order to share best practices in manufacturing and work toward greater harmonization of standards, the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s Manufacturing Extension Partnership program will start a dialogue with Indian counterparts

Looks like US stds are going to become important.

The leaders look forward to the annual U.S.-India Economic and Financial Partnership in early 2015. They also welcomed the expansion of the partnership in oversight of financial institutions, including between Reserve Bank of India and the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Office of the Comptroller of Currency.

This means whenever the Fed wants to start tapering, they give the RBI a heads up in time so we don't see the rupee getting trashed all of a sudden.

The two leaders reaffirmed their commitment to implement fully the U.S.-India civil nuclear cooperation agreement. They established a Contact Group on advancing the implementation of civil nuclear energy cooperation in order to realize early their shared goal of delivering electricity from U.S.-built nuclear power plants in India. They looked forward to advancing the dialogue to discuss all implementation issues, including but not limited to administrative issues, liability, technical issues, and licensing to facilitate the establishment of nuclear parks, including power plants with Westinghouse and GE-Hitachi technology.

revive the nuke deal.

The leaders welcomed the conclusion of a Memorandum of Understanding between the Export-Import Bank and the Indian Renewable Energy Development Agency, which would make up to $1 billion in financing available to bolster India’s efforts to transition to a low-carbon and climate-resilient energy economy, while boosting U.S. renewable energy exports to India.

Wonder what those are ? solar or other.

To facilitate deeper defense cooperation, they welcomed the decision to renew for ten more years the 2005 Framework for the U.S.-India Defense Relationship and directed their defense teams to develop plans for more ambitious programs and activities. The two leaders also agreed to reinvigorate the Political-Military Dialogue and expand its role to serve as a wider dialogue on export licensing, defense cooperation and strategic cooperation.

The leaders welcomed the first meeting under the framework of the Defense Trade and Technology Initiative in September 2014 and endorsed its decision to establish a Task Force to expeditiously evaluate and decide on unique projects and technologies which would have a transformative impact on bilateral defense relations and enhance India's defense industry and military capabilities.

More joint arms development.

The President and Prime Minister welcomed cooperation in the area of military education and training, and endorsed plans for the United States to cooperate with India's planned National Defence University. They also decided to expand military-to-military partnerships including expert exchanges, dialogues, and joint training and exercises. They also committed to enhancing exchanges of civilian and military intelligence and consultation.

More mil-to-mil exchanges.

The leaders committed to partner on the Digital India initiative, with the goal of enhancing digital infrastructure, deploying e-governance and e-services, promoting industry collaboration, and digitally empowering India’s citizens. The President welcomed India's proposal to establish the Global Initiative of Academic Networks (GIAN, or Knowledge) under which India would invite and host up to 1,000 American academics each year to teach in centrally-recognized Indian Universities, at their convenience.

more academic exchanges. instead of us going there why can't they come here.

The leaders agreed to launch a new phase of the India-U.S. Vaccine Action Program to develop affordable vaccines for dengue, malaria, and tuberculosis, and the establishment of an adjuvant development center.

another that is long time in coming.

The President and Prime Minister emphasized the need to accelerate infrastructure connectivity and economic development corridors for regional economic integration linking South, Southeast, and Central Asia. The President reiterated that the United States, through its New Silk Road and India-Pacific Economic Corridor, is promoting the linkage of India to its neighbors and the wider region to enable a freer flow of commerce and energy.

integrate an area that is not very integrated to begin with.

India and the United States pledged to consult closely on global crises, especially unfolding events in Syria and Iraq. The two leaders committed to exchange information about nationals returning from these conflict zones, and to seek cooperation in protecting and responding to the needs of civilians stranded in the middle of these conflicts.

more info sharing

They stressed the need for diplomacy to resolve the serious concerns of the international community regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and called on Iran to comply with its UN Security Council-imposed obligations and to cooperate fully with the International Atomic Energy Agency.

No difference of opinion here.

The President expressed appreciation for the contributions of Indian peacekeepers to global peace and stability for the past 60 years, and welcomed the partnership with India to train third country peacekeepers at India’s training center in New Delhi. The President reaffirmed his support for a reformed UN Security Council with India as a permanent member, and both leaders committed to ensuring that the Security Council continues to play an effective role in maintaining international peace and security as envisioned in the United Nations Charter.

We keep hearing this now for some time but sooner or later if the UNSC wants to maintain its credibility its going to have to change its composition.

[Officer of Engineers]

We keep hearing this now for some time but sooner or later if the UNSC wants to maintain its credibility its going to have to change its composition.

Not as long as countries like Japan and India keep begging for permenant membership.

[Pedicabby]

2030 ? that gives us another 15 years more to get our house in order

Deal

Good luck! :)

[Double Edge]

Not as long as countries like Japan and India keep begging for permenant membership.

Cant blame them. All non p5 american allies have a veto including Israel.

Russia took care of India.

if this endures then fine but otherwise changes will have to occur.