Are American Values to Blame for the World's Chaos

[gf0012-aust]

I didn't say that for the US, I said how it is understood in Serbia. Also I didn't say that that understanding is true or that I agree with it, I am just saying what majority of people here believe that it is.

which means that the responses are influenced by cultural and personal assumptions.

thats like asking kosovars what their views on serbs and russians are and expecting a particular response.

crikey there are people who think that america is based on 1930's chicago based on movies they've seen - ie gangsters and guns everywhere.

some answers on that basis will be predictable.

its why people need to try and travel so that they can wipe out stereotyping and assumptions... :)

[Versus]

which means that the responses are influenced by cultural and personal assumptions.

thats like asking kosovars what their views on serbs and russians are and expecting a particular response.

crikey there are people who think that america is based on 1930's chicago based on movies they've seen - ie gangsters and guns everywhere.

some answers on that basis will be predictable.

its why people need to try and travel so that they can wipe out stereotyping and assumptions... :)

Perhaps...

[sail4evr]

I've asked all of my coworkers what they think are American values and they all answered-money.

Well Versus, That would reasonably the first value that pops to someone's mind. It's true, now pardon me for being defensive, but does that mean Americans have no other values. Don't forget that the US is the one of the largest, if not the largest donor to world famine and world health relief, to the UN, Nato, the IMF. IN the US, national parks, museums. The US has the most advanced medical science health establishment in the world because of money. I know socialized medicine is great, but when you have cancer, where do you want to go for treatment? Everyone I talk to says the US. Money overthrew Yanukovich. Was that a bad thing? Money counters the Russian threat. Money is holding the Russian bear at bay in the Ukraine. Money is countering the Chinese expansion in the Far East. Take away money and all those things go away. The people most vocal about linking US values with money invariably are those without. Just my opinion. Not always, there are exceptions. This thread is about American values. There is nothing particularly derogatory in that heading, bu the comments are somehow saying money is a bad thing. Americans don't value peace? Is that what you are saying? Americans don't value love? Are you saying that? Americans don't love their animals? Are you saying that? What is wrong with valuing money? If it wasn't for money, I wouldn't be sitting on a beautiful boat in the Caribbean. My wife and I earned our way. Nobody gave us anything. This is the American Dream. Surely you have heard of that? I wish Americans could save all the people of the world, but they can't. You can't just give people money or they piss it away because they don't understand the value of money even in America.

[sail4evr]

its why people need to try and travel so that they can wipe out stereotyping and assumptions... :)

I can't agree more.

[Doktor]

Hmmm... Care to give them visas
?

[Versus]

Well Versus, That would reasonably the first value that pops to someone's mind. It's true, now pardon me for being defensive, but does that mean Americans have no other values. Don't forget that the US is the one of the largest, if not the largest donor to world famine and world health relief, to the UN, Nato, the IMF. IN the US, national parks, museums. The US has the most advanced medical science health establishment in the world because of money. I know socialized medicine is great, but when you have cancer, where do you want to go for treatment? Everyone I talk to says the US. Money overthrew Yanukovich. Was that a bad thing? Money counters the Russian threat. Money is holding the Russian bear at bay in the Ukraine. Money is countering the Chinese expansion in the Far East. Take away money and all those things go away. The people most vocal about linking US values with money invariably are those without. Just my opinion. Not always, there are exceptions. This thread is about American values. There is nothing particularly derogatory in that heading, bu the comments are somehow saying money is a bad thing. Americans don't value peace? Is that what you are saying? Americans don't value love? Are you saying that? Americans don't love their animals? Are you saying that? What is wrong with valuing money? If it wasn't for money, I wouldn't be sitting on a beautiful boat in the Caribbean. My wife and I earned our way. Nobody gave us anything. This is the American Dream. Surely you have heard of that? I wish Americans could save all the people of the world, but they can't. You can't just give people money or they piss it away because they don't understand the value of money even in America.

Wow,hold on a bit. I never said anything about American values, as I don't know what they are, I was only saying how they are understood and practiced here. That doesn't mean that I agree with that. As far as animals, aka dogs story goes, I have a problem when a American dog kills American kid and than seeing that goes to American court and the dog is set free. Not just me, but also Americans I am in contact with.

Geo politics is a whole different ball game.

[sail4evr]

Hmmm... Care to give them visas
?

that's very funny

[sail4evr]

Wow,hold on a bit. I never said anything about American values, as I don't know what they are, I was only saying how they are understood and practiced here. That doI have a problem when a American dog kills American kid and than seeing that goes to American court and the dog is set free. Not just me, but also Americans I am in contact with.

Geo politics is a whole different ball game.

Sorry, it was not intended to be personal. This thread is about 'American values to blame for world chaos," so that sounds like a challenge to me. Your friends related American values to money. The thread relates American values to chaos. We all remember when a=b and b=c a=c. Therefore you have perhaps inadvertently linked money to chaos by Americans. We shouldn't discuss dogs or we will be accused of derailment, but quickly I would totally agree with you. Capital punishment for people and for dogs.

[kato]

crikey there are people who think that america is based on 1930's chicago based on movies they've seen - ie gangsters and guns everywhere.

To be fair 'murrica does seem to entirely consist of run-down inner cities, suburban sprawl to the horizon and otherwise farmsteads with dozens of miles between them. Pop in the random highrise office park (next to the run-down inner city), educational facilities that resemble gated-off micro-towns (next to the suburbs) - or, built identically, company sites with buzzword names but that no one knows what they're actually doing there - and bears and redneck militia (in the wilderness). Oh, and there's a thick overlay of suppressed class struggle, polarized politics and religion dominating life everywhere. Well, plus guns.

Now that's the stereotypical image of America. Problem is that people travelling in the US pretty much get exactly that image too.

It's sorta like people going to "England" and confirming their mental picture that it rains half the time, that there's surveillance cameras everywhere and - especially if they're from outside Euope - that like every second person doesn't have white skin and is obviously bent on overtaking Europe.

[Versus]

Sorry, it was not intended to be personal. This thread is about 'American values to blame for world chaos," so that sounds like a challenge to me. Your friends related American values to money. The thread relates American values to chaos. We all remember when a=b and b=c a=c. Therefore you have perhaps inadvertently linked money to chaos by Americans. We shouldn't discuss dogs or we will be accused of derailment, but quickly I would totally agree with you. Capital punishment for people and for dogs.

It is really difficult to talk about American values, if they can't be defined. So lets define them first and see why they are good or bad. As for the chaos, look no further as the place I am from, is a ground zero for exactly that type of action.

[sail4evr]

To be fair 'murrica does seem to entirely consist of run-down inner cities, suburban sprawl to the horizon and otherwise farmsteads with dozens of miles between them. Pop in the random highrise office park (next to the run-down inner city), educational facilities that resemble gated-off micro-towns (next to the suburbs) - or, built identically, company sites with buzzword names but that no one knows what they're actually doing there - and bears and redneck militia (in the wilderness). Oh, and there's a thick overlay of suppressed class struggle, polarized politics and religion dominating life everywhere. Well, plus guns.

Now that's the stereotypical image of America. Problem is that people travelling in the US pretty much get exactly that image too.

It's sorta like people going to "England" and confirming their mental picture that it rains half the time, that there's surveillance cameras everywhere and - especially if they're from outside Euope - that like every second person doesn't have white skin and is obviously bent on overtaking Europe.

Kato, I have to disagree. Not saying all those things you mentioned are not true, because they are, but tourists don't go there. They go to Disneyland (not in NY), the Statue of Liberty, the UN building, Central Park, Museum of Modern Art, 5th Avenue, Greenwich Village. Maybe you can guess I am originally from New York. They don't go to the places you described. Ok maybe 1 out of 1,000 might want to get off the beaten track. The only guns you can see in NY are in the hands of the police. Otherwise the right to bear arms is written into the 2nd amendment of the American constitution as I'm sure you know. From Wikipedia "The right to keep and bear arms (often referred to as the right to bear arms or to have arms) is the people's right to have their own arms for their defense as described in the philosophical and political writings of Aristotle, Cicero, John Locke, Machiavelli, the English Whigs and others." Oh and the "overlay of suppressed class struggle, polarized politics and religion dominating life everywhere." For most tourists, that's probably just like home. Who doesn't live in a place like that?

[gf0012-aust]

Hmmm... Care to give them visas
?

i've been to numerous countries where people haven't travelled beyond their town/village - but assume that their opinions on other countries are "unchallengeable"

the issue is less about visas and more about an ingrained mindset.

[sail4evr]

As for the chaos, look no further as the place I am from, is a ground zero for exactly that type of action.

I have read Wikipedia's description of Serbian history. Would you accept its accuracy? If that is a yes, read on, otherwise disagree. Would you say that American values created chaos in your country starting, "On 17 February 2008, the Kosovo parliament unilaterally proclaimed independence from Serbia to mixed international reactions. The declaration was officially recognized by the U.S., Austria, Great Britain, Germany, France, Turkey and dozen other countries" ***from Wikipedia. Is this your reference point?

[Versus]

I have read Wikipedia's description of Serbian history. Would you accept its accuracy? If that is a yes, read on, otherwise disagree. Would you say that American values created chaos in your country starting, "On 17 February 2008, the Kosovo parliament unilaterally proclaimed independence from Serbia to mixed international reactions. The declaration was officially recognized by the U.S., Austria, Great Britain, Germany, France, Turkey and dozen other countries" ***from Wikipedia. Is this your reference point?

There is a thread about it, under the Europe/Russia called "Serbia-the autopsy report" where I try to untangle the events that lead to this. No, it started in 19th century.

[sail4evr]

There is a thread about it, under the Europe/Russia called "Serbia-the autopsy report" where I try to untangle the events that lead to this. No, it started in 19th century.

Well that is hardly and American value creating chaos is it? I am not a history major, but I don't recall any foreign involvement in that part of the world in the 19th century. Again from Wikipedia...The Serbian realms disappeared by the mid-16th century, torn by domestic feuds, and Ottoman conquest. The success of the Serbian revolution against Ottoman rule in 1817 marked the birth of the Principality of Serbia, which achieved de facto independence in 1867 and finally gained recognition by the Great Powers in the Berlin Congress of 1878. As a victor in the Balkan Wars in 1913, Serbia regained Vardar Macedonia, Kosovo and Raška (Old Serbia).
I'm sorry, but how does this show the chaos created by American values?