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  • Russia’s Navy: More rust than ready

    MAY 27, 2014

    On May 8, the British Royal Navy destroyer HMS Dragon sailed from the naval base at Portsmouth on an urgent mission — to find and follow the Russian aircraft carrier Kuznetsov and six accompanying vessels steaming through the English Channel. “A Russian task group of this size has not passed by our shores in some time,” said Rex Cox, Dragon’s captain. True, the Russian navy has been more active in recent months. Moscow annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula with its strategic ports and asserted itself with troop, ship and warplane deployments along the frontier between Russia and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

    But Russia’s busy fleet schedule masks an underlying seagoing weakness. Moscow’s warships are old and unreliable. Yet the government is finding it increasingly difficult to replace them with equally large and powerful new vessels. Russia is a geriatric maritime giant surrounded by much more energetic rivals. In the final years of the Cold War, the Soviet Union was determined to match the mighty U.S. Navy on the high seas. Moscow funded the construction of its first three full-size aircraft carriers in the late 1970s and 1980s — the non-nuclear Kuznetsov and a sister ship, plus a nuclear-powered vessel. The United States then possessed 15 large aircraft carriers, most of them nuclear-powered. After post-Cold War force cuts, today the United States has 10 nuclear flattops plus another nine small carriers.

    The Soviet Union’s collapse dashed Moscow’s naval expansion plans. The Russians managed to finish paying the Ukrainian shipyard to complete Kuznetsov. But there was not enough money for the other two flattops. Today, a new aircraft carrier can cost billions of dollars. Commissioned in 1991, Kuznetsov was Russia’s last new large warship. In the past 23 years, Moscow has managed to complete a few new submarines and small frigates and destroyers at its main Sevmash shipyard, on the North Atlantic coast. But many of Russia’s current naval vessels — and all its large vessels — are Soviet leftovers. They’re outdated, prone to mechanical breakdowns and wickedly uncomfortable for their crews — especially compared to the latest U.S., European and Chinese ships. Washington alone builds roughly eight new warships a year, including a brand-new nuclear carrier every four or five years.

    When Moscow moved to annex Crimea in March, the U.S. Navy promptly sailed its new flattop USS George H.W. Bush into the eastern Mediterranean to reassure NATO governments. Bush‘s battle group included no fewer than 60 high-tech warplanes and several of Washington’s modern Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, armed with missiles and guns for fighting planes, submarines and other ships. In response, the Kremlin sent in Kuznetsov. The aging carrier — much smaller than Bush — carried a dozen or so Sukhoi fighters. Her six escorts included just a single heavily-armed vessel, the Soviet-vintage nuclear cruiser Pyotr Velikiy. The other five ships included one small amphibious landing ship plus three support tankers and a tugboat. The tugboat was along for a good reason. On the few occasions when Kuznetsov leaves port, she often promptly breaks down. In 2009, a short circuit sparked a fire that killed one seaman aboard the rusting vessel.

    Kuznetsov shadowed Bush in the Mediterranean for a few weeks, then returned home to northern Russia through the English Channel in early May. That’s when Dragon found her. For a more enduring presence in the Mediterranean, the Kremlin deployed one relatively modern destroyer, to reinforce Russia’s small existing Mediterranean flotilla.

    Kuznetsov doesn’t have many years left in her. Her boilers are “defective,” according to the trade publication Defense Industry Daily. Yet when she goes to the breakers to be dismantled, Moscow could find it impossible to replace her. For one, the shipyard that built all the Soviet carriers now belongs to Ukraine. It lies just outside of Crimea, and Russian forces did not manage to seize it. Moreover, Ukraine is still the exclusive supplier for many of the heavy components, including engines and gears, for Russia’s warships — even the ones Russia builds in its northern shipyard. With the continuing tense stand-off, Kiev recently banned arms sales to Moscow.

    Russia’s attempts to revitalize its domestic shipbuilding industry have not gone smoothly. In 2005, India inked a nearly $1-billion deal with Russia for a rebuilt Soviet-era small flattop. Russia’s work on Vikramaditya was so poor, however, that she suffered a near-total breakdown shortly after her purported completion in 2012. India finally accepted Vikramaditya this year — after the total cost of her refurbishment had nearly tripled to $2.3 billion. If Russia can’t even remodel an existing warship, imagine the difficulties it would face designing and building a big new ship from scratch.

    Moscow knows its navy is in trouble. It seized on an extreme solution in 2011 — importing ships, technology and expertise from France. Russia signed a contract for two French Mistral-class helicopter carriers. Each ship costs more than $1 billion. The plan was for Russian shipyards to help construct the vessels. “The purchase of Mistral shipbuilding technology will help Russia to grasp large-capacity shipbuilding,” Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, chief of the navy at the time. “It is important for construction of ships like the future ocean-going class destroyer and later an aircraft carrier.”

    Unsurprisingly, the Russian yards have proved incapable of handling intensive construction. In 2013, the Kremlin asked France to take over the bulk of the work. When Russia annexed Crimea, Paris threatened to cancel the ship deal. But France was reluctant to give up billions of dollars in revenue. Russia’s first French-built ship is nearing completion and could sail to Russia late this year. But buying two ships from France will do little to reform Russia’s shipbuilding industry if Russian workers aren’t directly involved in building them. Now deprived of the Ukrainian-made parts, Russia’s shipbuilding industry is arguably in worse shape than it was just a few months ago.

    That bodes poorly for Russia’s future as a naval power. Dragon’s interception of Kuznetsov could prove to be a turning point. In coming years, large Russian warships could become a very rare sight. The implications are serious for Moscow’s influence in the world — and for its ability to win a war against a maritime foe.
    Source
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  • #2
    Just a few snarky remarks:

    For one, the shipyard that built all the Soviet carriers now belongs to Ukraine. It lies just outside of Crimea, and Russian forces did not manage to seize it.
    Putin would probably sell his firstborn to grab Nikolayev South.

    Fun Fact: Until just a few years ago, the load capacity of largest crane in the yard rivaled that of the Newport News North Yard Crane (900 tons).

    “The purchase of Mistral shipbuilding technology will help Russia to grasp large-capacity shipbuilding,” Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, chief of the navy at the time. “It is important for construction of ships like the future ocean-going class destroyer and later an aircraft carrier.”
    In your dreams Hoss. You need a shipyard isn't overloaded with even more corruption than rust.

    Unsurprisingly, the Russian yards have proved incapable of handling intensive construction. In 2013, the Kremlin asked France to take over the bulk of the work...But buying two ships from France will do little to reform Russia’s shipbuilding industry if Russian workers aren’t directly involved in building them.
    That's right Einstein ;) Now let's see if Putin figured that one out too. Because he very much wants a broad-shouldered blue-water navy.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #3
      Top:

      And to add to what you said, if Russia were to invade Ukraine, the cost would be so high it could kiss its naval dreams goodbye.
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        Fun Fact: Until just a few years ago, the load capacity of largest crane in the yard rivaled that of the Newport News North Yard Crane (900 tons).
        Uh. Is 900 tons still a lot? I mean nowadays, not in the 70s before pretty much every halfway respecting shipyard in Europe installed cranes of that size (to be fair, bigger ones didn't really spread until a couple years ago)...

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        • #5
          Lol. They might want to start thinking about renaming the Kuznetsov to... Rzhavchina Vedro (Rust Bucket)
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kato View Post
            Uh. Is 900 tons still a lot? I mean nowadays, not in the 70s before pretty much every halfway respecting shipyard in Europe installed cranes of that size (to be fair, bigger ones didn't really spread until a couple years ago)...
            Well, current standards aside, the U.S. built 7 Nimitz-class carriers with that capacity (CVN-71 to CVN-77). So that's still a prodigious capacity that doesn't grow on trees.
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
              Lol. They might want to start thinking about renaming the Kuznetsov to... Rzhavchina Vedro (Rust Bucket)
              In truth, they were Rzhavchina Vedro even before the collapse of the Soviet Union. When their ships, other than their submarines, deployed they didn't copy the American, or NATO model of going to the other side of the World or wherever and operating. No, they went wherever they were going, then dropped anchor and sat there for as long as they were told to before going home again. I cannot tell you the number of times we used to steam by Socotra Island off of Yemen when it was a "socialist paradise" at 30 knots and bounced them on their hooks as they sat there with red rust running hither and yon. It was great fun, and would drive them crazy, but they simply could not operate with us. They didn't even know how.

              Comment


              • #8
                Be responsible for your own wake ........

                Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                In truth, they were Rzhavchina Vedro even before the collapse of the Soviet Union. When their ships, other than their submarines, deployed they didn't copy the American, or NATO model of going to the other side of the World or wherever and operating. No, they went wherever they were going, then dropped anchor and sat there for as long as they were told to before going home again. I cannot tell you the number of times we used to steam by Socotra Island off of Yemen when it was a "socialist paradise" at 30 knots and bounced them on their hooks as they sat there with red rust running hither and yon. It was great fun, and would drive them crazy, but they simply could not operate with us. They didn't even know how.

                Just learned another "thing" about the operation of the USSR's High Seas Fleet!
                And the USN tactic "How to out swamp your enemy ..... "
                Last edited by blidgepump; 08 Jun 14,, 23:04.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                  In truth, they were Rzhavchina Vedro even before the collapse of the Soviet Union. When their ships, other than their submarines, deployed they didn't copy the American, or NATO model of going to the other side of the World or wherever and operating. No, they went wherever they were going, then dropped anchor and sat there for as long as they were told to before going home again. I cannot tell you the number of times we used to steam by Socotra Island off of Yemen when it was a "socialist paradise" at 30 knots and bounced them on their hooks as they sat there with red rust running hither and yon. It was great fun, and would drive them crazy, but they simply could not operate with us. They didn't even know how.
                  Sir, they still can't operate with us. They still suck. Saw it last deployment firsthand.
                  "We are all special cases." - Camus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                    Lol. They might want to start thinking about renaming the Kuznetsov to... Rzhavchina Vedro (Rust Bucket)
                    well, there is a reason why they've been furiously recruititing "western" maritime engineers and contractors for the last 5 years. The biggest indictment is the purchase of the Mistrals as they are not milspec but commercial engineering standard builds - and snr russian stars have said that they bought french platforms as they lacked the capability to build locally to that standard....
                    Linkeden:
                    http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
                    http://cofda.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dv2 View Post
                      Sir, they still can't operate with us. They still suck. Saw it last deployment firsthand.
                      Dv2 could we persuade you to favor us with an anecdote or two?
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dv2 View Post
                        Sir, they still can't operate with us. They still suck. Saw it last deployment firsthand.
                        Some countries should just stay the land powers that they are. The Czar and Kaiser wanted navies to equal the best in the world long ago. Well we know what happened to them every time they went out to sea. The Czar couldn't get past the Japanese and the Kaiser couldn't get past the British. End result their navies did a very good job sitting at anchor in the end.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                          Dv2 could we persuade you to favor us with an anecdote or two?
                          Well, we just noticed them barely moving. Loitering, possibly anchored, for what became weeks on end, near Socotra. Their SAG compositions indicated that they also lacked confidence in their seamanship. After personally seeing some of their vessels, and the amount of rust, it was obvious that either the money or the GAF just wasn't there.
                          Last edited by Squirrel; 09 Jun 14,, 06:51. Reason: word choices
                          "We are all special cases." - Camus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dv2 View Post
                            Well, we just noticed them barely moving. Loitering, possibly anchored, for what became weeks on end, near Socotra. Their SAG compositions indicated that they also lacked confidence in their seamanship. After personally seeing some of their vessels, and the amount of rust, it was obvious that either the money or the GAF just wasn't there.
                            Back during Operations Ernest Will and Praying Mantis during the Iran-Iraq War, they would actually "informally join" the cruiser I was CHENG on as we escorted re-flagged Kuwaiti tankers past Bandar Abbas and the Iranian Silkworms based there. They weren't helping, rather they were looking to us for protection. That's when I knew we had them by the short hairs.

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                            • #15
                              Map reading ...

                              Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                              Back during Operations Ernest Will and Praying Mantis during the Iran-Iraq War, they would actually "informally join" the cruiser I was CHENG on as we escorted re-flagged Kuwaiti tankers past Bandar Abbas and the Iranian Silkworms based there. They weren't helping, rather they were looking to us for protection. That's when I knew we had them by the short hairs.
                              Okay, you got me working another mapping exercise. Never heard of this island before!

                              SOCOTRA (n) Island south of Yemen.

                              I am still looking for that film clip of a Soviet Missile Frigate moving "dead slow" through the water as the sun is setting and the mental image described in this thread got my interest.
                              As I do not have the charts for making the passage into the Gulf of Aden, I assume the channel gets narrow... and if you drop the hammer a line of ships could "rock the ship of another navy quite easily?
                              Attached Files

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