India just woke up in North Korea or what?

[sated buddha]

Hate was his specialisation not ours.

He was a patriot. And a son of the soil.

He will be remembered by us. And his teachings emulated.

P.S. Who do you define as "ours" ? :) This should be interesting .....

[bolo121]

People whose opinions differ from you. duh.

[sated buddha]

People whose opinions differ from you. duh.

Where do you and I come in when discussing Balasaheb?

Cribbing about a great man, beloved by the masses, does not diminish his stature. It just makes you look frustrated and whingy.

As always.

Jai Hind. Jai Maharashtra.



Just look at those eyes man .....

Ekta Tiger! (Once there was a Tiger!)

[Double Edge]

Do away with stupid "National Interest" laws that seek to protect anyone's sensitive ears. No stupid laws, not stupid interpretation of laws

You're not getting it. All that is required is to show what was said is offensive if you can prove that it does not matter what the context is. You have the right under existing law to file charges. And realise that these are non-bailable offenses. Think of it as a more extreme form of protection from libel or defamation.

The interpretation isn't stupid, inserting article 19(ii) back in 1952 was stupid. The reason given at the time was it would be impossible to prosecute someone that advocated murder. If you look at the US that comes under incitement. Anything up to but not including incitement is permitted.

Now whether you get attacked by other parties or fired form your job for what you said is a separate matter but USG will not be able to touch you on the basis of someone charging you offended them.

Double standards, don't you think?

This is the other thing, both sides make the same charge. They do so on the basis of partisan interests. The law in this particular context does not discriminate here at all. Anyone can use it.

A bigger org like SS might get a speedier response but this does not preclude individuals from filing for the same.

[Oracle]

Unlike you, I do not backtrack. I did not modify my post. I simply added to it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36949[/ATTACH]

Enough said.

The man lived and went like the King he was.

Haters can keep hating and cry their eyes out for all I care frankly. :)

King.

By beating up South & North Indians? He might be the idol you emulate, don't try and push that to others. Hate is a strong word, I prefer seeing both sides of the coin. I'm not a religious extremist.

[lemontree]

The girls were stupid. Not the stupidness of youth, but the stupidness of the misplaced arrogance of minority entitlement syndrome.

You are from Mumbai. You know the reality. Balasaheb was God for a huge majority of Mumbaikars. He was the reigning ruler of Mumbai. When a King dies, the people mourn. In such a charged environment if two stupid girls mouth off, the ramifications are not something you and I are unaware of.

The girls were not kids. Or firangs (foreigners) unaware of the realities and dynamics of the milieu they lived in.

They were stupid, immature, and a huge emabarrassment and liability to their families and the community they belonged to.

You may not like Balasaheb. You may call him anything. But the facts were there for the entire nation to see on his passing away. Mumbai came on to the streets. Maharshtra from far flung places came on to the streets. You may believe whatever you like.

But you do not have the right to hurt the sentiment of others.

The police did their job. And prevented the situation from escalating and getting ugly. Because you and I both know how ugly it could have got, especially at that moment.

This is not talibanization. This is a diverse and complex democracy living together and staying together with mutual respect. With your rights come responsibilities. Responsibilities which two stupid airheads flagrantly threw to the wind. And were given a rap on their knuckles for.

A rap on the knuckles is a whole lot better than what could have, might have happened.

This is the type of fascism that I'm against.
I'm against a party that threatens to "burn" Mumbai if the rule of law was enforced (w.r.t 1993 riots).

BTW, you are well aware that the police were pulled up for that wrongful arrest.
The SS vandalised a clinic belonging to one of the girls' relatives, and none were arrested for that.

Tell me if I am wrong to stand against it.

[lemontree]

Where do you and I come in when discussing Balasaheb?

You and I would be two sides of a coin that represent Mumbai.

Just look at those eyes man .....

Ekta Tiger! (Once there was a Tiger!)

:slap:

He formed his policies based on the what inspired him from "Mein Kampf".
His strong point was his strong oratory skills.
His late son's close associate was my business partner a few years ago, so hold a different view.

[sated buddha]

My Internet is coming and going man. Nearly 5 times I have replied to oracle and the reply did not go thru. Will reply fom home later.

Damn! And now this one liner makes it through.:slap:

[sated buddha]

King.

Absolutely.

You, an Assamese Bong, rolling your eyes in Bangalore, is not going to change facts on the ground in Mumbai.

The photos do not lie. Nor does the state funeral given to him.

No one forced the millions to come on to the streets. No one threatened them so that the tears came unabated to their eyes.

Get real. Don't shove your sense of right and wrong on to us here. Who we should respect and love, and who we should not.

Balasaheb was the undisputed King of Mumbai. Without challenge. The Shiv Sena is the ruler of Mumbai, Unchallenged.

Does not matter who the CM at the state is. Or the PM of the country. We have seen enough come and go to know who calls the shots here. And always will.

And Mumbai and Maharashtra is the better and safer for that. My daughters are safer for that. My streets are safer for that. Ask any woman she will tell you the same. As any old, infirm, weak, they will say the same. Ask any Mumbaikar fom the 70s through 80s and 90s who cleaned up their city and killed the underworld and released Mumbai from the Pakstani-Dubai stranglehold, they will tell you that.

As I said, Patriots first foremost and last. You guys are just not comfortable with their politically incorrect ways.

[Double Edge]

LT, expect more of this kind of incidents to occur, until someone says enough is enough and BJP is left red-faced. That will probably set a change in motion for the stupid laws we have.

Hmm, i wish...but how will you counter the below public safety/disorder arguments ie such laws exist to preserve stability. In the 'public interest'.

They were stupid, immature, and a huge emabarrassment and liability to their families and the community they belonged to.

You may not like Balasaheb. You may call him anything. But the facts were there for the entire nation to see on his passing away. Mumbai came on to the streets. Maharshtra from far flung places came on to the streets. You may believe whatever you like.

But you do not have the right to hurt the sentiment of others.

The police did their job. And prevented the situation from escalating and getting ugly. Because you and I both know how ugly it could have got, especially at that moment.

This is not talibanization. This is a diverse and complex democracy living together and staying together with mutual respect. With your rights come responsibilities. Responsibilities which two stupid airheads flagrantly threw to the wind. And were given a rap on their knuckles for.

A rap on the knuckles is a whole lot better than what could have, might have happened.

What is achieves is to defuse the situation by going after the weaker party. The one least likely to cause trouble.

People are incapable of responding to words with words. Incapable of repartee. One person says something, cheapest way is to have another counter. But no, must resort to or threaten violence in the name of honour. The state is required to intervene.

The only time i feel a govt will refrain from prosecuting is if it becomes counter productive in the big picture. They are facing a strong anti-incumbency and do not want to give their opponents more ammo. No clear cut answer here, depends on the situation. This is not a govt that seeks to preserve freedom of speech rather one that is in damage limitation mode.

Incumbents are extremely sensitive to anything that threatens stability as it has a bearing on whether they stay or go. If you consider that in the electronic age, things can move faster still they are uneasy about the possibility of spontaneous riots. The exodus from Bangalore over videos being circulated is a case in point here. The govt of the time was totally stumped and left wondering wtf just happened.

[Oracle]

Absolutely.

You, an Assamese Bong, rolling your eyes in Bangalore, is not going to change facts on the ground in Mumbai.

The photos do not lie. Nor does the state funeral given to him.

No one forced the millions to come on to the streets. No one threatened them so that the tears came unabated to their eyes.

Get real. Don't shove your sense of right and wrong on to us here. Who we should respect and love, and who we should not.

Balasaheb was the undisputed King of Mumbai. Without challenge. The Shiv Sena is the ruler of Mumbai, Unchallenged.

Does not matter who the CM at the state is. Or the PM of the country. We have seen enough come and go to know who calls the shots here. And always will.

And Mumbai and Maharashtra is the better and safer for that. My daughters are safer for that. My streets are safer for that. Ask any woman she will tell you the same. As any old, infirm, weak, they will say the same. Ask any Mumbaikar fom the 70s through 80s and 90s who cleaned up their city and killed the underworld and released Mumbai from the Pakstani-Dubai stranglehold, they will tell you that.

Correction: I'm not Assamese. Well the rest of your post is ... Posting walls?

My Internet is coming and going man. Nearly 5 times I have replied to oracle and the reply did not go thru. Will reply fom home later.

Damn! And now this one liner makes it through.:slap:

Beedis interfering with the cables/signal maybe?

Hmm, i wish...but how will you counter the below public safety/disorder arguments ie such laws exist to preserve stability. In the 'public interest'

Maybe public debate should help frame new laws, while abandoning the earlier ones.

[sated buddha]

People are incapable of responding to words with words. Incapable of repartee. Must resort to or threaten violence in the name of honour.

I think you would know enough of the Shiv Sena to realise that the response was very mild. Very controlled.

Repartee? As I said earlier, this is real life, real people, real passions, real sentiments. This is not a writer club or blogger's anonymous. Real lives are stake here. People have died and cities have burned for less. This is India. We are Indians. The STUPID girls were also Indian, living in India. This is not Scandinavia.

I mean what are we even debating here man? Seriously!

Balasaheb breathed his last more than 30 hours before the world was even told of it. Enough time for the state machinery to get in place and maintain control.

And a day after his funeral these MORONS post this? And we are talking repartee and rule of law and stuff as if we are sitting in Parliament? Ask any Mumbai policeman what the situation on the ground at the time was. I know. I have one in the family. And a senior one at that.

[Double Edge]

Hate was his specialisation not ours.

Put in place by congress to counter a communist leader of the time in Bombay whose name i cannot recall. Late 60s.

He was an effective counter.

Another one with Majority entitlement syndrome

You know i'm not sure if there is any difference in what he said and what minorities would say anytime something comes out that remotely resembles hate speech or amounts to disrespect of their community or religion. One and the same.

Article 19(ii) to the rescue

Satanic verses, Dan Brown, anything inflammatory against (insert family name/group/community/party). All the same isn't it.

Ban, go to jail.

[sated buddha]

You know i'm not sure if there is any difference in what he said and what minorities would say anytime something comes out that remotely resembles hate speech.

Only that the "majority" has never had sole dibs on hate speeches either.

[Double Edge]

I think you would know enough of the Shiv Sena to realise that the response was very mild. Very controlled.

Versus what they could have done. This is why that law exists. So we have to balance security over freedom.

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither. Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security - Benjamin Franklin

you do not have the right to hurt the sentiment of others

This is the bit i fundamentally disagree with. In an ideal world sentiments of others should not be infringing on people's right to express themselves. So long as they do not resort to incitement.

Too bad nine out of ten Indians aren't with me on that.