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  • Russia signs 30-year gas deal with China

    Russia's President Vladimir Putin has signed a multi-billion dollar, 30-year gas deal with China.

    The deal between Russia's Gazprom and China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC) has been 10 years in the making.

    Russia has been keen to find an alternative energy market for its gas as it faces the possibility of European sanctions over the crisis in Ukraine.

    No official price has been given but it is estimated to be worth over $400bn.

    President Putin said in a statement to the Russian news channel Rossiya: "The price is satisfactory for both sides.

    "It is tied, like it is envisaged in all our international contracts with Western partners, specifically our partners in Western Europe, to the market price on oil and oil products. It is an absolutely calibrated, general formula for pricing," Mr Putin added.

    Gazprom shares rose 2% on the news.

    How significant is the deal?
    The agreement, signed at a summit in Shanghai, is expected to deliver some 38 billion cubic meters of natural gas a year eastward to China's burgeoning economy, starting around 2018.

    The main argument has been over price and China is thought to have been driving a hard bargain.

    Over the last 10 years it has found other gas suppliers. Turkmenistan is now China's largest foreign gas supplier, and last year it started importing piped natural gas from Myanmar.

    Rain Newton-Smith, head of emerging markets at Oxford Economics, said: "The whole tenet of the deal has a symbolic value - it says that the two countries are prepared to work with one another. For instance there were other elements such as Chinese participation in Russian transport infrastructure and power generation.

    "It is similar in many ways to China's investments in Africa where they drive a hard bargain over the price of raw materials but then provide infrastructure for the economies they are doing business wit

    Jonathan Marcus, the BBC's defence and diplomatic correspondent said tensions between Russia and the west were not just over Ukraine: "There are fundamental differences over Syria and about the whole direction in which President Vladimir Putin is taking his country.

    "Thus this deal could symbolise an important moment of transition - when both in economic and geo-political terms, Russia's gaze begins to look more towards the East than towards the West."

    Siberian power
    Another sticking point on the deal has been the construction of pipelines into China.

    Currently there is one complete pipeline that runs across Russia's Far East to the Chinese border, called "The Power of Siberia". It was started in 2007, three years after Gazprom and CNPC signed their initial agreement in 2004.

    But financing the $22-30bn cost of sending it into China has been central to the latest discussions.

    China is Russia's largest single trading partner, with bilateral trade flows of $90bn (£53bn) in 2013.

    The two neighbours aim to double the volume to $200bn in 10 years.

    Analysis: Jamie Robertson, BBC News
    The gas deal between Russia and China was signed at 4 am China time, which gives some indication of the level of urgency over these talks. Mr Putin appears to have been determined not to leave Shanghai without a deal - and he got one.

    But the financial details are a "commercial secret", so we don't know how much he had to give away to get it. Certainly China needs the gas to help it cut its coal-fired smog levels, and it wants to diversify supply. It had the luxury of time in which to negotiate, something Mr Putin was short of.

    The perceived motive for the deal is that Russia needs a second market for its gas, so it can face up to European sanctions. Given that the "Power of Siberia" pipeline won't start pumping gas into Chinese factories until 2018 at the earliest, its economic effect on the European crisis will be limited.

    More important may be the investment that China will make into Russia's power and transport infrastructure. Putin may not have managed to sign the most advantageous of gas deals on Wednesday but the opening of economic doors with China could well be the greater achievement.

  • #2
    It's a win-win. China gets gas and Putin gets to be China's bitch.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
      It's a win-win. China gets gas and Putin gets to be China's bitch.
      Could be the case, but it's sure a headache, especially since both are pretty cheerful in their back yards.

      Wonder if they both got a nice cozy feeling of having each others backs.
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        Could be the case, but it's sure a headache, especially since both are pretty cheerful in their back yards.

        Wonder if they both got a nice cozy feeling of having each others backs.
        The rest of the world needs China to be stable and prosperous, and continuity of energy supply is critical to that. Be damn sure they got an extraordinary deal from Putin who is desperate. Who knows, China may be better at getting Putin to pull his head in than the west has been.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

        Comment


        • #5
          Do we know the price of the gas for the Chinese?
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            Do we know the price of the gas for the Chinese?
            Cheaper than it would have been about 3 months ago. ;)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by citanon View Post
              Cheaper than it would have been about 3 months ago. ;)
              According to RT more expensive then what Ukraine got 3 months ago for lower quantities.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                Do we know the price of the gas for the Chinese?
                We know that the price is somewhere in a range between 350 and 380 USD per thousand cbm - since in the negotiations 380 is what Russia wanted (as that is what they get for the gas from Europe), and 350 is what China was willing to pay (as that's what they pay Turkmenistan for their gas).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  The rest of the world needs China to be stable and prosperous, and continuity of energy supply is critical to that. Be damn sure they got an extraordinary deal from Putin who is desperate. Who knows, China may be better at getting Putin to pull his head in than the west has been.
                  I suggested a few months back that the end result of Putin antagonizing Europe & the US and having Russia less integrated into the economies of the West would be a much greater dependence on money from Beijing. In the near to medium term it probably won't make much difference to Russia, but in the longer term it will give China increasing influence. it may be all smiles now, but I can't believe that China would back away from using such leverage simply because it might hurt Russian feelings.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Leverage?

                    Chinese are smarter then Euros, but still. Once they get hooked on Russian gas...
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Leverage?

                      Chinese are smarter then Euros, but still. Once they get hooked on Russian gas...
                      We'd likely get the good ole ''trade if you can't conquer''.The Chinese will struggle to get Central Asian gas under their hook,just as the Russians will try.They'll make bussiness on one side and be competitors on the other.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                        Leverage?

                        Chinese are smarter then Euros, but still. Once they get hooked on Russian gas...
                        Russia is going to need the money more than China needs the gas. China will busily develop alternatives and take the its it needs to if it can't. It isn't just going to be money from gas contracts Russia needs. Try pulling the shit Putin is doing now on the Chinese & see what happens.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                          We'd likely get the good ole ''trade if you can't conquer''.The Chinese will struggle to get Central Asian gas under their hook,just as the Russians will try.They'll make bussiness on one side and be competitors on the other.
                          The Chinese seem to be winning the Central Asian gas competition.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                            Russia is going to need the money more than China needs the gas. China will busily develop alternatives and take the its it needs to if it can't. It isn't just going to be money from gas contracts Russia needs. Try pulling the shit Putin is doing now on the Chinese & see what happens.
                            Russia is the alternative to the LNG tanks coming from the sea. I don't see Russia do anything to China though. The border between Russia and China is the most peaceful one among all China's neighbors.

                            Win-Win plus a big mid finger to Obama's foreign policy team. Applauds all around the room.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                              Russia's President Vladimir Putin has signed a multi-billion dollar, 30-year gas deal with China.

                              The deal between Russia's Gazprom and China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC) has been 10 years in the making.

                              Russia has been keen to find an alternative energy market for its gas as it faces the possibility of European sanctions over the crisis in Ukraine.

                              No official price has been given but it is estimated to be worth over $400bn.

                              President Putin said in a statement to the Russian news channel Rossiya: "The price is satisfactory for both sides.

                              "It is tied, like it is envisaged in all our international contracts with Western partners, specifically our partners in Western Europe, to the market price on oil and oil products. It is an absolutely calibrated, general formula for pricing," Mr Putin added.

                              Gazprom shares rose 2% on the news.

                              How significant is the deal?
                              The agreement, signed at a summit in Shanghai, is expected to deliver some 38 billion cubic meters of natural gas a year eastward to China's burgeoning economy, starting around 2018.

                              The main argument has been over price and China is thought to have been driving a hard bargain.

                              Over the last 10 years it has found other gas suppliers. Turkmenistan is now China's largest foreign gas supplier, and last year it started importing piped natural gas from Myanmar.

                              Rain Newton-Smith, head of emerging markets at Oxford Economics, said: "The whole tenet of the deal has a symbolic value - it says that the two countries are prepared to work with one another. For instance there were other elements such as Chinese participation in Russian transport infrastructure and power generation.

                              "It is similar in many ways to China's investments in Africa where they drive a hard bargain over the price of raw materials but then provide infrastructure for the economies they are doing business wit

                              Jonathan Marcus, the BBC's defence and diplomatic correspondent said tensions between Russia and the west were not just over Ukraine: "There are fundamental differences over Syria and about the whole direction in which President Vladimir Putin is taking his country.

                              "Thus this deal could symbolise an important moment of transition - when both in economic and geo-political terms, Russia's gaze begins to look more towards the East than towards the West."

                              Siberian power
                              Another sticking point on the deal has been the construction of pipelines into China.

                              Currently there is one complete pipeline that runs across Russia's Far East to the Chinese border, called "The Power of Siberia". It was started in 2007, three years after Gazprom and CNPC signed their initial agreement in 2004.

                              But financing the $22-30bn cost of sending it into China has been central to the latest discussions.

                              China is Russia's largest single trading partner, with bilateral trade flows of $90bn (£53bn) in 2013.

                              The two neighbours aim to double the volume to $200bn in 10 years.

                              Analysis: Jamie Robertson, BBC News
                              The gas deal between Russia and China was signed at 4 am China time, which gives some indication of the level of urgency over these talks. Mr Putin appears to have been determined not to leave Shanghai without a deal - and he got one.

                              But the financial details are a "commercial secret", so we don't know how much he had to give away to get it. Certainly China needs the gas to help it cut its coal-fired smog levels, and it wants to diversify supply. It had the luxury of time in which to negotiate, something Mr Putin was short of.

                              The perceived motive for the deal is that Russia needs a second market for its gas, so it can face up to European sanctions. Given that the "Power of Siberia" pipeline won't start pumping gas into Chinese factories until 2018 at the earliest, its economic effect on the European crisis will be limited.

                              More important may be the investment that China will make into Russia's power and transport infrastructure. Putin may not have managed to sign the most advantageous of gas deals on Wednesday but the opening of economic doors with China could well be the greater achievement.
                              Last I heard ,about yesterday , had not reached a decision on price of gas going to china.

                              Did china accept the price or did Putin lower it?

                              Comment

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