Special Report - Chinese military's secret to success: European engineering

[gf0012-aust]

the advantage they have beyond money is political will and intent

5 years ago they were determined to knock japan, south korea and taiwan off in volume of newbuild commercial shipping tonnage - and like everything else they've done they realised that significant parts of commercial shipbuilding would assist in military tech

they started off by stealing small missile boat and hullform tech from israel and australia - and then migrated to larger hulls from the french, danes, germans

they did the same with aviation tech when they got that idiot Clinton to release 5 Axis tech and then cloned the SU-27's. They got free long range tech out of commecial work for Boeing etc....

[lemontree]

Name me one Russian tech the US has stolen

Russian tech stolen by USA
How to make Vodka...
Something maybe from the Iraqi Mig-19 that the Israeli's stole in 1967 and the Mig-21's that were tested and improvements incorporated in tactics and future US fighter development.

Both the US and Russians were copying German tech/designs anyway (post WW2).

[gf0012-aust]

Something maybe from the Iraqi Mig-19 that the Israeli's stole in 1967 and the Mig-21's that were tested and improvements incorporated in tactics and future US fighter development.

The US Redhat reports show that the tech was not regarded as competitive - what it did provide them with was the opportunity to establish aggressor and red hat squadrons as they knew the aircrafts flight characteristics. Once they did that the US kill ratio went right up.

BTW, the US got most of them from countries that were owner drivers, and at that stage that was just WARPAC, They've never declared who sold them the 2 x Su27's. They gave the Mig21's back to Israel after 2 years of testing

[Blademaster]

Name me one Russian tech the US has stolen

Oh please. US has stolen Russian tech. It just hadn't admit it.

[Doktor]

Andy,

What's the % of CSIC's shares that are on sale?

[lemontree]

The US Redhat reports show that the tech was not regarded as competitive - what it did provide them with was the opportunity to establish aggressor and red hat squadrons as they knew the aircrafts flight characteristics. Once they did that the US kill ratio went right up.

That is exactly what I implied.

BTW, the US got most of them from countries that were owner drivers, and at that stage that was just WARPAC,

If we are talking of the Mig17 & Mig21, then these were the ones obtained by Mossad. Post 1989, Germany could have helped too as they had a whole lot of Migs after unification.

[gf0012-aust]

If we are talking of the Mig17 & Mig21, then these were the ones obtained by Mossad. Post 1989, Germany could have helped too as they had a whole lot of Migs after unification.

The americans bought 28 x Mig 29's from Moldavia. The east german Migs were in pretty poor condition, although unified germany refurbed them all before they transferred the whole lot to poland for the sum of 1 Euro. The germans did use them for their own aggressor training and eval, but it was short lived. Most of the ex east german pilots failed to requalify, their standards were pretty awful.

quite a few WARPAC countries were providing the US with technology towards the end of the cold war - and it was a veritable flood after the collapse of the berlin wall and then finally post yeltsin.

the US military has more soviet/russian gear than some small countries entire military. they did spend some time re-engining some of the helos though as they were poor quality.

they have substantially more than just Mig17, Mig21's though - the israelis weren't the only ones providing material pre collapse of the iron curtain


All sides had their own equivs of the "foreign tech acquisition and evaluation" teams though

[Mihais]

The Moldovan Mig 29's were about to end in Iranian hands.So there was another aspect in these aquisitions.

As for selling Soviet tech in the 80's,that's true.We had no qualms about it.

[Officer of Engineers]

Oh please. US has stolen Russian tech. It just hadn't admit it.

Name one. I can't think of any. The only example that came to mind was the MiG-25 defection to Japan and there, the MiG-25 was found to be nothing special, certainly not on par with the F-14s and F-15s.

[Officer of Engineers]

Russian tech stolen by USA
How to make Vodka...

No, they didn't. The Americans still suck at making vodka. The high end brands are still from Europe.

Know what? I just remember as a teen that I thumb my nose at people who would spend $20 on a shot when I could have 24 for around that price. My last scotch tasting with my RSM way back when, both of us didn't even blink putting down $200+ for a shot of rare scotch ... though we will never do that again. It was good, best I ever tasted but not worth the $200.

Ahhh, but the story ... we got more phone numbers that night ... just don't tell his wife.

[Doktor]

Name one. I can't think of any. The only example that came to mind was the MiG-25 defection to Japan and there, the MiG-25 was found to be nothing special, certainly not on par with the F-14s and F-15s.

Since this went all the way down... wasn't F-15's requirements over MiG's assumed capabilities?

[Blademaster]

No, they didn't. The Americans still suck at making vodka. The high end brands are still from Europe.

Know what? I just remember as a teen that I thumb my nose at people who would spend $20 on a shot when I could have 24 for around that price. My last scotch tasting with my RSM way back when, both of us didn't even blink putting down $200+ for a shot of rare scotch ... though we will never do that again. It was good, best I ever tasted but not worth the $200.

Ahhh, but the story ... we got more phone numbers that night ... just don't tell his wife.

Can you still drink? Or are you forever a teetotaler?

[Officer of Engineers]

Can you still drink? Or are you forever a teetotaler?

I sneek in a 3 fingers once every six months but I had to prepare for it.

[Josh]

"Those who know..."

Just curious. How would those diesel submarines of theirs fair against three Seawolf attack subs looking for them? As I understand all three have been posted to the Pacific now. Then there are the Virginia Class.

"...don't say. Those who say, don't know."

The Seawolfs seem to be special engineering platforms at this point. Carter with its 'plug' is unequivocally is for special underwater engineering; I think Connecticut also under went some special, non-attack submarine modifications during her last refit. I suspect this entire group is tasked with secret squirl stuff that is outside of normal ISR, strike, or ASW of regular attack boats. The Virginia's and LA's I suspect would be the assets more typically used in the manner you describe. My amateur opinion, I don't think the D/Es would do all that well for that long, though that's more of a gut feeling than informed opinion. The more I learn about undersea operations, the more I realize I won't ever know anything.

[Blademaster]

I sneek in a 3 fingers once every six months but I had to prepare for it.

How so?