US/Chinese warships avoid collision

[winton]

Have to disagree on the Japan/S. Korea part.

I think what S2 was trying to emphasize is that the chinese don't see SK or Japan's naval fleet as an obstacle to their "ambitions". And it hasn't as you can see from chinas multiple challenges to the status quo.

[Officer of Engineers]

Are we not stating the obvious here? I mean, what else was it designed to do? Lose wars? Go fishing? Prima facie, the carrier was designed to launch and recover aircraft. You're trying to make sense on a different plane.

No, you freaking idiot. If the main mission of the NIMITZ was to launch and land aircrafts, then she wouldn't need a company of Marines, a State of the Art battle management system, sensors up the ying yang, damage control, and nuclear weapons. None of which exists on the Chinese carrier. The main job was and is to win wars.

You are damned stupid.

Far from being obsolete, the PLAN are finding their carrier has many utility. Currently as a training and test vessel, and obviously the US are keenly interested in Chinas use of this vessel. Judging by the US's interest alone, wouldn't suggest that this vessel is obsolete.

Hey, dummy, idiot, crap for brains, arse face, used toilet paper, what was the VARYAG designed for? It was no training nor a test vehicle. You really want to be thrash again, don't you.

In case you don't get it ... and you don't, the LAONIN can't even do the original mission that the VARYAG was designed for, so not only totally, completely, utterly obsolete, but a failed design from the get go. The Chinese would have been better off turning the thing into a casino.

[Battleship IOWA]

Far from being obsolete, the PLAN are finding their carrier has many utility. Currently as a training and test vessel, and obviously the US are keenly interested in Chinas use of this vessel. Judging by the US's interest alone, wouldn't suggest that this vessel is obsolete.

If your carrier does not survive the first hour of combat I would consider that obsolete. The US never tries to engage if fair fights, we come in with overwhelming military superiority and kick ass. I think the best term is "Shock and Awe", because it's what anyone that is dumb enough to attack us will feel.

[Albany Rifles]

It was designed primarily as an ASW platform with a limited fixed wing capability for CAP.

The Nimitz class was designed for power projection and scouting part of the naval triad of nuclear strike against the USSR. Her capabilities have been vastly expanded over the years able to provide C4SI in joint/coalition warfare. Launching aircraft is only something it can also do.

Oh, and we have 10 of them.

Just curious, what is your expertise in naval warfare based on? I said fanboy earlier because you arguments seemed more based on Wiki comments than experience.

If I am wrong please correct me.

[ace16807]

In case you don't get it ... and you don't, the LAONIN can't even do the original mission that the VARYAG was designed for, so not only totally, completely, utterly obsolete, but a failed design from the get go. The Chinese would have been better off turning the thing into a casino.

To be fair, the PLAN doesn't want CV-16 to do the same thing Kuznetsovs were designed to do. Nor do I personally see an alternative approach from where they stand on how to start a carrier program. They could have possibly converted the HMAS Melbourne but my guess is that it was too old for their liking. Generally you learn by fucking up, so while Liaoning might not be a battle-worthy carrier, mistakes made on this one will likely be fixed in the next version. The PLAN, afterall, appears all too familiar with commissioning series of less than desirable platforms over many years until they find an evolution to their liking.

[Officer of Engineers]

It was obsolete even for Chinese purposes before it steamed out of port. The J-15 can only take off with half loads and the Chinese already decided that they need catapults. So, they have to abandon what they learn here in flight operations when their indigenous carrier comes onto the scene.

[tbm3fan]

Hey idiot. The NIMITZ'S ONLY JOB IS TO WIN A WAR! GET IT?

Sir, he is trolling as usual which is why I no longer take the bait.

I would rather let him have the thread all to himself.

[DonBelt]

The Nimitz and her sister ships can also support the other ships in their respective battle groups thru unrepping and vert-repping, they carry extra fuel and supplies to accomplish this. Having nuclear reactors, they don't need to refuel (other than rcoh every 20 years or so) and the space saved allows for more aviation fuel, ordnance and other supplies. They can maintain their own aircraft on board and repair them, provide medical and dental services to the fleet and ashore areas, even administrative and disbursing services to deployed fleet units. The number of aircraft they carry outnumbers and outclasses anyone else and can be increased by 60%. Having cats they can operate heavier longer range aircraft, they operate multiple types to include in air refueling, awacs, electronic warfare. They can travel further and stay on station longer than any other nation's carriers. There is no way you can say a carrier is a carrier, just a flat deck for launching aircraft, all the same. And they're just the tail end of 90 years of continual carrier operation- generations of experience and experimentation and implementation. And Tmb3fan is correct, so this is all I will say.

[ace16807]

It was obsolete even for Chinese purposes before it steamed out of port. The J-15 can only take off with half loads and the Chinese already decided that they need catapults. So, they have to abandon what they learn here in flight operations when their indigenous carrier comes onto the scene.

They may have to start over with flight ops but considering they had an aviator corps that has never taken off/landed on a ship (in the water) before or a flight deck crew means there's still a lot to be learned by putting at this point, a deck out in the middle of the ocean to launch planes off of. It also gives an opportunity for C&C to experience what it's like to actually operate a carrier group, both for those ashore and those at sea. Practicing virtually is one thing but the PLA is increasingly convinced that the real deal is better.

[Officer of Engineers]

I really can't see what they can learn that they don't have to unlearn when their real carrier comes onto the scene. Catapult operations are completely different than ski jumps.

[cdude]

I really can't see what they can learn that they don't have to unlearn when their real carrier comes onto the scene. Catapult operations are completely different than ski jumps.

Correct me if I am wrong. BUt I always thought landing is the more difficult part of the art.

[bonehead]

Correct me if I am wrong. BUt I always thought landing is the more difficult part of the art.

The landing is easy. Overstep your bounds to the USN and they will splash you.

[Albany Rifles]

Correct me if I am wrong. BUt I always thought landing is the more difficult part of the art.

To a well trained and experienced flight deck few, yes.....with 90 years of corporate experience behind it.

For everyone else?.....

[Officer of Engineers]

Correct me if I am wrong. BUt I always thought landing is the more difficult part of the art.

There's a difference between landing with a full load and landing with a half a load.

[winton]

If I am wrong please correct me.

Well, first of all, I remain unconvinced with OoE argument that the PLAN carrier is obsolete. They are using it for their own intended purposes and I note that they are practicing takeoffs and landing and other flight deck operations and gaining valuable experience. How do they unlearn landing experience when that is the most difficult part of carrier operations.

If we were to apply OoE s standard then every other nations carrier is obsolete.

My interest does not lie in naval warfare so I think I should make that disclosure first. Secondly, my information regarding the PLAN comes from internet sources just like everybody else.

Happy to be convinced otherwise, but I think some people are taking this thread way off topic.