Hakimullah Mehsud, Pakistan Taliban chief, killed in US drone attack: Report

[Firestorm]

Question:

What would the US if Pakistan chooses to clamp down and refuse transit through their borders and land at this point? Is there a legal treaty that the US can fall back on or some other obligatory document that they can use?

I am asking this because this is what is being proposed in some of the more "patriotic" Pakistani think tank circles.

I highly doubt the GoP will do so at this point but if they did, but all the US would have to do is to threaten the GoP that they will utilize their influence in the IMF to stop the next loan and stop US aid as well. Pakistan's forex reserves had reduced to a little over $4 billion recently. They'll be in deep doodoo if some US or IMF money does not come in. Just the threat itself would be enough to bring them to heel.

[Parihaka]

Question:

What would the US if Pakistan chooses to clamp down and refuse transit through their borders and land at this point? Is there a legal treaty that the US can fall back on or some other obligatory document that they can use?

I am asking this because this is what is being proposed in some of the more "patriotic" Pakistani think tank circles.

NATO negotiated an exit through the 'stans during the last blockade. Important material can be moved out through there (at a cost I'm sure) and if necessary the rest burned. Post 2014 everything can be airlifted.
The most significant piece in Cataphract's news link IMO was this

Moments later, an army of Taliban came and they cordoned off the area.

An army of Taliban less than 1k from the PA regional headquarters?

[Firestorm]

An army of Taliban less than 1k from the PA regional headquarters?

Oh, they're just waiting for more free JDAM deliveries from the US, so they can bomb that army from their F-16s.

[antimony]

NATO negotiated an exit through the 'stans during the last blockade. Important material can be moved out through there (at a cost I'm sure) and if necessary the rest burned. Post 2014 everything can be airlifted.

I heard that there was 60 bn worth of equipment. Also, there are the troops.

The most significant piece in Cataphract's news link IMO was this

An army of Taliban less than 1k from the PA regional headquarters?

You have a bad habit of picking up negative things. I think you need to look the other way, presumably like the PA commanders were doing :)

Seriously, if any other army did this, they would have shoes hurled at them. In this case, I assume I would hear the familiar cries of how its all a conspiracy and that saving Pakistan Army's face is more important than any inquiry.

[Dreadnought]

I look at it this way, making friends with the Pakistan Army doesnt resolve you of the crimes commited against other nations and therefore you are indeed a legal target wether Pakistan says so or not. They are only driven by their own means and anyone that thinks this is going to go away even if they make peace is either stupid or lacks forward thinking ability.

The past has shown this, however some just lack the spine for what needs to be done to solve this entire problem.

They are the enemy of anyone that opposes their pathetic and twisted rule.

[Oracle]

I think we suffer in our assessments by not being in country as a man on the street.

That's true. But what good are people of a country who are fed nostalgic lies about it's army and the imminent threat from CIA/MOSSAD/RAW, and where even the educated are delusional fools and closet terrorists sympathizers. I don't expect anything.

[antimony]

Interesting and insightful urdu talk show from Pakistan, focusing on news, politics and current affairs.

Hosted by senior Pakistani journalist Najam Sethi and his protege (these two have a very Jedi Master-padawan vibe going) Muneeb Farooq. Sethi was named as a traitor several times under Article 6 by Pakistani hardliners, for calling for peace with India and the folly of excessive military expenditure

Gist of the show

1. Hakimullah Messud was an enemy of Pakistan, so there should be rejoicing at his demise
2. As per military sources (they quote a PA Major Gen) no. of civilians killed by drones was 57, as opposed to many many more terrorists being killed
3. Drones are much more precise, with much less collateral damage than the PAF airstrikes, which are actually killing more civilians

Conclusions: drones are good for controlling the insurgency, though they may be bad for Pakistan's image

[JAD_333]

That's true. But what good are people of a country who are fed nostalgic lies about it's army and the imminent threat from CIA/MOSSAD/RAW, and where even the educated are delusional fools and closet terrorists sympathizers. I don't expect anything.

Referring to antimony's post, there are contrary voices in Pakistan. But I meant the view from inside Pakistan broadly matches the view from inside all countries. Foreign media focuses on major events in other countries creating the impression among its audience that little else concerns people in the country being reported on. For example, foreigners may get the impression that the US is up in arms about all the recent shooting sprees in schools and workplaces. Yes, they are angry about it, but many other newsworthy events occupy their attention as well. Life goes on.

[antimony]

Referring to antimony's post, there are contrary voices in Pakistan. But I meant the view from inside Pakistan broadly matches the view from inside all countries. Foreign media focuses on major events in other countries creating the impression among its audience that little else concerns people in the country being reported on. For example, foreigners may get the impression that the US is up in arms about all the recent shooting sprees in schools and workplaces. Yes, they are angry about it, but many other newsworthy events occupy their attention as well. Life goes on.

I have been following the Pakistani Urdu talk show circuit fr the past few weeks. They are quite a vibrant, articulate and self criticizing lot (at least some of them), though sometimes they come off as a bit whiny (why doesn't anyone like us?). I would venture to say that things like load shedding (power cuts), violence in the street of Karachi and Lahore and the latest scandals of the political parties bother them more than the drones. The drones bother the military mullah hyper patriotic types a lot more.

[JAD_333]

I have been following the Pakistani Urdu talk show circuit fr the past few weeks. They are quite a vibrant, articulate and self criticizing lot (at least some of them), though sometimes they come off as a bit whiny (why doesn't anyone like us?). I would venture to say that things like load shedding (power cuts), violence in the street of Karachi and Lahore and the latest scandals of the political parties bother them more than the drones. The drones bother the military mullah hyper patriotic types a lot more.

I don't have a sense of how the Urdu language media in Pakistan rates against Pak mainstream media. But what you say jibes with my sense of how 'outraged' Pakistanis are about the recent drone strike, which is not as much as the media outside Pakistan makes it out to be.

[Firestorm]

I don't have a sense of how the Urdu language media in Pakistan rates against Pak mainstream media. But what you say jibes with my sense of how 'outraged' Pakistanis are about the recent drone strike, which is not as much as the media outside Pakistan makes it out to be.

In the subcontinent as a whole, it is the native language media which is the "mainstream" media. The English media isn't small in size and is very visible to outsiders, but reaches a very small percentage of the population.

[JAD_333]

In the subcontinent as a whole, it is the native language media which is the "mainstream" media. The English media isn't small in size and is very visible to outsiders, but reaches a very small percentage of the population.

Learn something new everyday. Thanks.

[antimony]

I don't have a sense of how the Urdu language media in Pakistan rates against Pak mainstream media. But what you say jibes with my sense of how 'outraged' Pakistanis are about the recent drone strike, which is not as much as the media outside Pakistan makes it out to be.

The folks I am talking about are not quite "mainstream", even though its in vernacular. Even the language, if you can listen to it, is very liberally interspersed with lot s english words and phrases. In other words, very urbane.

Having said that, the problems they point to are common man problems - power cuts, water, food prices, crime. Hence my reason to believe that this is not as much as a problem as it is made out to be.

[Minskaya]

Malala attacker to lead Taliban
Nov 8, 2013

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani Taliban on Thursday named Hakimullah Mehsud's successor days after the dreaded terrorist alliance's chief was killed in a US drone strike in the country's tribal North Waziristan region bordering Afghanistan. Mullah Fazlullah, the new chief, is infamous for carrying out many attacks, including the one on child rights activist Malala Yousafzai in 2012. He had in September claimed responsibility for the killing of top army officer, Maj General Sanaullah Niazi. Fazlullah first gained notoriety after he introduced public floggings and beheading in Swat as the Taliban overran the scenic region. He had fled to Afghanistan after a Pakistan army operation drove the Taliban out of the region following an operation in 2009. Taliban interim chief Asmatullah Shaheen said Fazlullah, nicknamed Mullah Radio, was "elected" the chief while Sheikh Khalid Haqqani was named his deputy. The group's spokesman, Shahidullah Shahid, said Fazlullah was chosen new leader after consultations.

He is one of the first leaders of the group from outside the tribal region and his elevation has all but ended any chances of a peace deal with the government. Shahid rejected the idea of peace talks, saying Fazlullah had always been against having any negotiations with the Pakistan government. Reports said Fazlullah's appointment was celebrated with heavy gunfire in Miranshah in North Waziristan.

Source: Times of India

Taliban plan wave of revenge attacks in Pakistan
Fri Nov 8, 2013

The Pakistani Taliban announced on Friday they would orchestrate a wave of revenge attacks against the government after naming hardline commander Mullah Fazlullah as their new leader. The rise of Fazlullah, known for his fierce Islamist views and rejection of peace talks, by the Taliban shura, or leadership council, a day earlier follows the killing of Hakimullah Mehsud, the previous leader, in a U.S. drone strike on November 1. "We will target security forces, government installations, political leaders and police," Asmatullah Shaheen, head of the shura, told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location. He said the Taliban's main target included army and government installations in Punjab province, the political stronghold of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Source: Reuters

New Taliban commander, same Taliban program of murder and mayhem. It's good that Fazlullah succeeded Meshud. Now he is on top of the drone strike list. Given the opportunity, I would put a Hellfire in his pocket myself.

[Dreadnought]

Yep, I await seeing his demise in the morning news. Hopefully it wont be long.

Maybe they should let that young lady they tried killing pull the trigger.

If they havent figured it out yet, they are indeed a dying breed of trash.